[GTC-ICD]-Coudfin Raptor

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--mtalmuzicfan
4/17/12 - Started Magic the Gathering: Online <--mtalhead...for LIFE!!! \m/
This one I REALLY like. Starting at 0/1 makes it damn easy to evolve. Remind anyone else of another one drop?
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Now this is an evolve creature that I wasn't really expecting.  I was expecting an 0/1 evolver, but a flyer on the boot is great for limited.  Usually 1-drops are worthless, but I can see this becoming easily a 2/3 or 3/4 by the time all is said and done.  At common, to boot, and I think this may be one of the most heavily drafted commons in the set and one that is splashed for.
This is good. especially in limited
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This is good. Only in limited



Fixed.

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Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

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When you make an ICD, please type out the card info as well as posting a picture, for those of us at computers that can't view images.


Can someone please type out this card?
:U: Cloudfin Raptor (C)
Creature- Bird Mutant

Flying

Evolve

0/1
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
This is good. Only in limited



Fixed.



A 1 mana flyer has potential, depending on surroundings. Getting this to 3/4 shouldn't be too hard, and even if they remove it they are likely tempoing themselves. 
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This is easily Constructed playable, IMO.

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This is easily Constructed playable, IMO.


Playable? Sure. Will it be in any competitive decks? Doubt it.

The wording of evolve means you cannot Increasing Ambition out 5 1/1s and make this a 5/6, since it checks on resolution of Evolve the P/Ts of both creatures-it would become a 1/2 and sit there. So, you need to commit a bunch of creatures to the board to make this good at all. This definitely isn't another Delver.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Is this a Bird of Paradise that was experimented on? 0/1 flying body, and it looks a bit like the art to me.
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This is easily Constructed playable, IMO.


Playable? Sure. Will it be in any competitive decks? Doubt it.

The wording of evolve means you cannot Increasing Ambition out 5 1/1s and make this a 5/6, since it checks on resolution of Evolve the P/Ts of both creatures-it would become a 1/2 and sit there. So, you need to commit a bunch of creatures to the board to make this good at all. This definitely isn't another Delver.



This isn't meant to be played on turn 6 with Increasing Devotion. Like Delver, this is something you start your curve off with. It's not going to replace Delver, as they go in different decks, but this is very similar. I think this may find a home in decks that want a cheap flier but didn't have the instants and sorceres to make Delver work.

Edit: @blood

Sadly only a 1/2
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Ok silly question, if I have this out and play something that gives me multiple 1/1 tokens, how big would it get?
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Ok silly question, if I have this out and play something that gives me multiple 1/1 tokens, how big would it get?

It would become 1/2.
Ok silly question, if I have this out and play something that gives me multiple 1/1 tokens, how big would it get?


Evolve checks upon resolution to make sure it can go ahead and plop a 1/1 counter down, so even if all the 1/1 tokens trigger evolve simultaneously and all go on the stack, only the first one will resolve (unless you remove the initial counter from the Cloudfin).

It would get 1 counter.

This is easily Constructed playable, IMO.

 
Playable? Sure. Will it be in any competitive decks? Doubt it.

The wording of evolve means you cannot Increasing Ambition out 5 1/1s and make this a 5/6, since it checks on resolution of Evolve the P/Ts of both creatures-it would become a 1/2 and sit there. So, you need to commit a bunch of creatures to the board to make this good at all. This definitely isn't another Delver.

 

This isn't meant to be played on turn 6 with Increasing Devotion. Like Delver, this is something you start your curve off with. It's not going to replace Delver, as they go in different decks, but this is very similar. I think this may find a home in decks that want a cheap flier but didn't have the instants and sorceres to make Delver work.



Is this really worth a card slot though? Sure, it gets better as you play creatures, but what kind of deck using wants to commit a bunch of creatures to the board? Not to mention you need to curve out pretty well to make sure Evolve triggers each turn. Outside of the kitchen table, I don't see this every getting that big with all the phenomenal sweepers in standard.

TL;DR: It's GILBIC. It's a god-awful topdeck, relies too much on the board.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
More cheap Evolve, and with evasion too!

Awesome.
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Is this really worth a card slot though? Sure, it gets better as you play creatures, but what kind of deck using wants to commit a bunch of creatures to the board? Not to mention you need to curve out pretty well to make sure Evolve triggers each turn. Outside of the kitchen table, I don't see this every getting that big with all the phenomenal sweepers in standard.

TL;DR: It's GILBIC. It's a god-awful topdeck, relies too much on the board.



Bant, BUG, maybe Grixis, maybe BU and Merfolk. All decks that may be played in the coming weeks. Well, Bant is already being played. And of course it's an awful top deck, especially late game. But so is Delver and pretty much every other 1 drop save Vexing Devil (which can be very good unless your opponent is well established).
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Delver isn't nearly as bad a topdeck as this. And again, evolve requires you to curve out perfectly with creature drops to be good at all. Unless it has good stuff attached to it like Fathom Mage, which is going to be played in constructed way before this does, if ever.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Well, that depends on the situation. After a board wipe, yeah I'm all for Delver>Raptor. If you just want a blocker Raptor>Delver because it can block fliers and may buy you a turn you wouldn't have gotten.

Fathom Mage is a 4 mana 1/1. If it had hexproof, maybe. But as it is now, no way.
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Well, that depends on the situation. After a board wipe, yeah I'm all for Delver>Raptor. If you just want a blocker Raptor>Delver because it can block fliers and may buy you a turn you wouldn't have gotten.


Well, if my opponent is at low life I prefer topdecking Delver because it will likely kill them. Touché. It's all situational, but Delver likes situations that might win you the game, while Cloudfin here just sits there and maybe prevents you from losing a turn earlier. Is Cloudfin > Delver just because of the offchance that your opponent might have a flyer that you need to block? Delver is better overall.

Not saying Fathom Mage is super good, it's just more worthy of a card slot than this. 
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
I was talking about top decking, for Pete's sake. If I'm playing a deck with many instants and sorceries and a high chance to flip it, I'll run Delver. If I'm running a deck where I utilize creatures, I'll use Raptor. You put the respective card in the deck where it will thrive the most; you know like cards are supposed to be used. I'm not going to just throw either of them into a random blue deck and say "be effective; win me the game."

I'll agree with you about Fathom Mage not being good, but this is more worthy of a slot than that.
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
I was talking about top decking, for Pete's sake. If I'm playing a deck with many instants and sorceries, I'll run Delver. If I'm running a deck where I utilize creatures, I'll use Raptor. You put the respective card in the deck where it will thrive the most; you know like cards are supposed to be used. I'm not going to just throw either of them into a random blue deck and say "be effective; win me the game."


Or you can just not play them, because they are bad cards. I actually like my cards to "be effective" and "win me the game", or get me closer to that. Honestly I would play Fleeting Distraction over Cloudfin.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good? 
Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good? 


Cloudfin Raptor, certainly. That doesn't make it better than Delver of Secrets.

The question is, which has enough payoff to be worth the setup? 
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
I was talking about top decking, for Pete's sake. If I'm playing a deck with many instants and sorceries, I'll run Delver. If I'm running a deck where I utilize creatures, I'll use Raptor. You put the respective card in the deck where it will thrive the most; you know like cards are supposed to be used. I'm not going to just throw either of them into a random blue deck and say "be effective; win me the game."


Or you can just not play them, because they are bad cards. I actually like my cards to "be effective" and "win me the game", or get me closer to that. Honestly I would play Fleeting Distraction over Cloudfin.



Of course you can just not play them. You can do that with any card. But when a card fits in a deck, what do you do? You put it in that deck. But you can play your Fleeting Distraction if you'd like.

Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good?



Lot's of cards need to be built around in our standard at the moment. Champion of the Parish, Gravecrawler, etc. At it's core this is a lesson in Magic deckbuilding. This teaches you the importance of the curve, and to think it won't be good or that it doesn't have a chance to find a way into decks when we have examples to the contrary is crazy. I'm not exactly sure which card you're supporting, but I'm assuming it's Delver, even though that requires a high instants and sorceries:everything else ratio.



A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good? 


Cloudfin Raptor, certainly. That doesn't make it better than Delver of Secrets.

The question is, which has enough payoff to be worth the setup? 


Does Cloudfin really need less to build around? Delver needs a single instant or sorcery in your whole deck to immediately turn into a 3/2 flyer, and you don't even need to cast that card. Cloudfin needs creatures that curve out from it P/T-wise, and requires you to cast them. Consequently it can achieve higher P/T than Delver but only with a ton of setup.

EDIT: You brought up 2 interesting cards. Champion of the Parish, in my opinion, is far superior to Cloudfin because it isn't limited in its growth. But the nature of these cards requires you to commit a lot to the board in return for marginal reward. Gravecrawler's presence in competitive environments isn't solely the result of building around it, but because there are really good cards that happen to fit into similar archetypes and are zombies that validate its inclusion (Geralf's Messenger, Diregraf Ghoul).
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Well, they reprinted Fog Bank and Kraken Hatchling in M13.

Part of me wants this as an experiment in my Primal Surge deck...but.... No haste, no reason to bother.
Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good? 


Cloudfin Raptor, certainly. That doesn't make it better than Delver of Secrets.

The question is, which has enough payoff to be worth the setup? 


Does Cloudfin really need less to build around? Delver needs a single instant or sorcery in your whole deck to immediately turn into a 3/2 flyer, and you don't even need to cast that card. Cloudfin needs creatures that curve out from it P/T-wise, and requires you to cast them. Consequently it can achieve higher P/T than Delver but only with a ton of setup.



Delver requires a lot of your deck to be instants and sorceries, as well as a low land count. Delver is much better in a fast aggro deck, this is better in a more mid-ranged deck that's going to house creatures as well as instants but with more focus on creatures. They go in two different decks, is this really that hard to grasp?
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Both cards need to be build around to work. Now, which one needs less around it to be good? 


Cloudfin Raptor, certainly. That doesn't make it better than Delver of Secrets.

The question is, which has enough payoff to be worth the setup? 


Does Cloudfin really need less to build around? Delver needs a single instant or sorcery in your whole deck to immediately turn into a 3/2 flyer, and you don't even need to cast that card. Cloudfin needs creatures that curve out from it P/T-wise, and requires you to cast them. Consequently it can achieve higher P/T than Delver but only with a ton of setup.



Technically, you can have Delver flip with only one instant/sorcery in your entire deck. However, you need twenty instants or sorceries for Delver to have even a 30% or so chance of flipping, and a card like Ponder to ensure a flip.

On the other hand, building a deck with Cloudfin Raptor just involves creatures in general, and doesn't take a specific kind of deck build.
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
I'm not disputing that at all. You brought up the topdeck comparison and I chose to bite. My argument is that this card is awful outside of limited.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Ermagerd! I wouldn't have guessed. Mine is that it isn't.
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
Ermagerd! I wouldn't have guessed. Mine is that it isn't.


Okay, this might be playable in Pauper.

Give me a situation involving Cloudfin Raptor that supports your argument and is not involved with magicalchristmasland and I will shut up. All I can see is: Turn 2, swing for 1. Turn 3, swing for 2. This also means you are tapping out to play creatures pre-combat.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Ermagerd! I wouldn't have guessed. Mine is that it isn't.


Okay, this might be playable in Pauper.



Sure, whatever you say.
A wise man on film sequels:
Watching sequels to really good films is like visiting a bollock kicking parlour, paying your money and then proceeding to get your bollocks kicked...then leaving and returning at a later date to repeat the process. -iamthehollow
Decks: :R::G: Karn Tron :R::U: Bloody Fish There Will Be Blood (movie).
This is good. Only in limited



Fixed.



A 1 mana flyer has potential, depending on surroundings. Getting this to 3/4 shouldn't be too hard, and even if they remove it they are likely tempoing themselves. 



It cares about power OR toughness ... so if you follow the curve, a 2/2 for 2 (say, the Guildmage) will put a counter on it, the other preview of a 3/1 flier for 3 will put a counter on it, and Tower Drake will put a counter on it -- or really, any number of decent walls in the set, like Hover Barrier. That's just a small sample of low-level, high-availability cards one can care about.
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There will also like be counter combat trips like Fate Transfer to tinker with...

This card is going to cause problems. Any 0/1 or 1/1 flyer is going to be effective, especially with so many ways to give it a power boost. Not the best art, and nor the best type, but a solid start to Simic. 

DCI Judge Level 1

Bird tribal kinda likes it. Assuming you choose to splash , which isn't necessary optimal.
No auto-playset though, thanks to a certain newbie.
evasive one-drop evolve creature? sign me up.
Hm, neat.
Turn one: This
Turn two: Gather the Townsfolk (Stacks the Evolve ability get's 2 +1/+1 Counters) Attack for 3 turn two

You have to remember if the creatures enter the battlefield at the same time the evolve mechanic stacks before seeing the other +1/+1 Counter.. if i'm not mistaken. 
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