So We Sat Down to Play D&DN Today


 Post christmas time and I sent out some text messages to summon ye olde group. One of them can't turn up but we get 3/4+ me as the DM.

 Lately we have been playing alot of random stuff since we jumped on board the D&DN playtest. I thinkk we all liked the packet that had the Sorcerer and Warlock in it, and hated the one with the neutered Rogue in it. The last few months have been a mixture of D&DN, Pathfinder and 2nd ed with the main campaign being PF which I usually only run with the full group for story line reasons.


 The DM (me)
Liked DMing 4th prefers 3.XYZ, favourite d20 mechanically is Star Wars Saga.


The players.
Girl Gamer. She likes her Rogue type characters, and always plays Rogues, Bards, Scoundrels and similar classes except in 4th ed where she loved her Dwarven fighter. Knows whats wrong with 3.XYZ.

The Random.
Likes 2nd ed and 3.5, mild dislike of 4th ed although he enjoyed his Barbarian and found Paladin and Ranger classes boring in 4th ed. Enjoys shooting himself in the face with wild magic effects playing havok with magic missiles. Doesn't seem to mind if he dies due to dice failure.

The Whatever
Enjoys D&D and RPGs in general. Seems happy playing whatever we offer him. Likes asian themed stuff although he is not gonna get much from me who dislikes it. He wil play whatever. Was a no show today.

Captain America.
 An American exile in New Zealand, plays human almost exclusively (Aasimar are fine), likes LG Paladin and Knights in shining armor generally.  Always plays good aligned PCs. He lhas liked everything I have served up as well. Doesn't care what edition it is. Likes Saga alot as well.

 Anyway this morning I spent a while printing out the D&DN Beastiary with much swearing and cursing (printer hates double sided print jobs, eats the paper). Alos printed out the Blindingstone adventure. I enjoy DMing D&DN and 4th ed as they are easy in that regard.  I also printed out another copy of the classes section and the equipment page, all up close to 200 pages in addition to what I printed out a few days ago. One of the players bought a ream of paper and we stopped printing double sided. All up around 300 pages give or take a few.

  The whatever player had some real life things to do and it was a no show. Anyway after all that printing and and the game craters. I was willing to DM it but only one of the had seen the new packet.

 Their responses.

Girl gamer was the most enthusiastic about it as she really want to try out the Rogue. It looks a great class.

The Random
Wasn't to fussed and I say him eyeing up the cleric. Bounded accuracy really turned him off and I showed the group Asmodeus and he laughed at it. I think he would have had a Dwarven cleric using the sun or magic domains as he likes the Dwarven Cleric archtype and I think he liked the idea of wearing medium armor and frying people with lances of faith when he gets hit.

 Captain America
This player was the most upset. He counted the dead levels on the fighter and the bounded accuracy (+5 to hit over 20 levels). Was not impressed about only 4 feats ever. He did not want to play. Captain America was the most enthusiastic D&DN player I had along with Girl Gamer. He loved the Fighter in the previous packets. He was also upset about d8 rapiers as he likes his strength based fighters and in D&DN he has worked out they suck.

 2/3 vetoed the game after printing out 300 pages. The Random offered to GM Star Wars Saga which we hadn't played much this year and he done a brutal crime infested game set in the outer rim during the Old Republic Era (Old Republic MMORPG specifically).
 

 We also had a discussion about what we actually liked from 3.5, 4th and SWSE. No much of it is present in D&DN. It does look like alot of fun but atm it is very shallow and BA seems to be killing any desire to play it long term as it just stretched alot of the stuff that was available in earlier packets over 20 levels. We will try it again I suspect. Its not somehitng one would want to use to try and run as an actual campaign more as a pick a level, run a few sessions and then do something else. Quick and easy, pick it up have a few games meh was the overall reaction.

  I probably should have offered them level 14 play and have run the Mud Sorcerers Tomb. Even the 2 somewhat enthusiastic players (1 now) more or less said they would play it but not buy it. They read the classes, discussed some character concepts and then gave up. Cleric and Rogue semed to be well recieved, wizard meh, and the Fighter got a similar reaction as the Rogue got last packet.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I agree with your players. Even though I haven't had the chance to get my playgroup together to try it out yet (as apparently, neither did you), my main quarrel with the game is that the classes are way too stripped down. I still want to give it a shot though-- 4e surprised me; I had heard so many bad things about it and I stalled playing it for 2 years after it came out, but once I tried it I enjoyed (most of) it a lot. Granted, it might just have been that I gave it more time to mature.

Although I think you should remind your players about the nature of playtests. The most important version of the game is the final one, not the current packet. They should abstain from making decisions like "buy/not" until they see the final product-- as I am.
We'll see how the fighter's accuracy stacks up; I suspect the flat math will be heightened a little bit in the next push.  But overall, in my game, fighters have been the best class by a mile.  Gaining martial damage dice makes them so potent...
I agree with some of Captain America's complaints about the Fighter.  This packet, it seems, went overboard on trying to make the light/no-armour wearing types happy with the Rogue and the Monk, and now suddenly we're back at square one with the poor Fighter not being as good and having nothing to call his own.  I call for the Monk and the Rogue to be scaled back a bit in terms of combat effectiveness.

If you have to resort to making offensive comments instead of making logical arguments, you deserve to be ignored.

I agree with some of Captain America's complaints about the Fighter.  This packet, it seems, went overboard on trying to make the light/no-armour wearing types happy with the Rogue and the Monk, and now suddenly we're back at square one with the poor Fighter not being as good and having nothing to call his own.  I call for the Monk and the Rogue to be scaled back a bit in terms of combat effectiveness.



He didn't care abot his fighter not being te most powerful clas, more that they streched out a 5 or 0 level class over 20 levels and all he gets is his daily surge power. In the 5 level playtest packet version there weren't thing like dead levels.

 He also likes his high strength knight type fighters and right now its kind of obvious you want to go light armor and use a rapier and we are back at 2nd eds THW sucking.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Thanks for the report, Z.

Good to see you back in the saddle.



"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

 Well I tried. The players kind of shot it down as I will generally run anthing. Right now we're all over the place with 4 RPGs being tested to decide on what we what we want to do. The contenders are 2nd ed, PF, D&DN and SWSE. THe last one has alreay won as its not going anywhere permanently.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

You can work on an interim setting while you decide...

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I see a lot of people complaing about the dead levels of the fighter, but have you guys looked at page 5 of character creation? Some levels you get a better skill dice or +1 to two attributes. I think it covers most or all the dead levels. Not sure thought.
 Oter RPGs you still get class abilities on top of things like feats and attribute increases that everone gets. Dead class levels seem a big no no for some people. Pathfinder is popular doesn't have them, 13th Age and 4th ed don't have them and neither does Star Wars Saga.

 In pre 3rd ed spellcasters do not get dead levels only the martial types. Even 3.5 did not have a huge amount of dead levels for most classes.

 Thats the reality of it. My players will chose PF and Saga over D&DN. They have to sell this game to the punters at the end of the day.

 Fear is the Mind Killer