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Good Duergar class?

Warblade


-Whats your goal with the character, the more info you provide the more you will get in return.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

Good Duergar class?



In 4e the answer is N/A.   Be a dwarf or a mul and then go from there.
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Good Duergar class?



In 4e the answer is N/A.   Be a dwarf or a mul and then go from there.


 Are Duergar not playable in 4e?
 
They are playable in that you can select them as a race.

However they are in nearly every way worse than dwarf.  Dwarves have awesome feat support, items built for them, and, in general, can do everything a duergar can do but better (no darkvision is about the only caveat).
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
That always seems to be the case with dark dwarves in fantasy games . But I've always liked them. Despite your opinion on the Duergar what would you suggest for a class?
 
You could just play a dwarf mechanically and reflavor it into a Duergar.
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You could just play a dwarf mechanically and reflavor it into a Duergar.



I could but it wouldn't be playing Duergar. I know they are not the greatest race but I really like the Duergar.tEver since I started playing fantasy games I've always liked dark dwarves idk why the race just has always appealed to me.
 
You can  make it as a bunch of different classes.  You have the compedium so just look it up.

You can play a dwarf and say it is a dark dwarf.  This way leads your character to be stronger, have more options, and in general be better.

It is very easy for you to look up the race and see what stats go with what class.  Not doing it is just being lazy.  It is very easy to reflavor a X dwarf to be a Y dwarf.  Not doing it will make your character less interesting and mechanically worse.

I don't want to contribute to your laziness, or to making your character worse. 
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
My fault, assumed 3.5, because duegar don't have official as PC write ups in 4e. 

In that case fighter.

I will reiterate that you will get better answers if you provide more info on what you want to play.  

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

My fault, assumed 3.5, because duegar don't have official as PC write ups in 4e. 

In that case fighter.

I will reiterate that you will get better answers if you provide more info on what you want to play.  



Fighter is actually a terrible plan.  And they do have an official PC writeup in MM2.

Iirc Duergar in 4e are Con/Wis.  Which means no +str for fighter.  Basically look through the classes that are Con/Wis primary and pick one.  Although, again, you will be worse off than a dwarf. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
You could just play a dwarf mechanically and reflavor it into a Duergar.



I could but it wouldn't be playing Duergar. I know they are not the greatest race but I really like the Duergar.tEver since I started playing fantasy games I've always liked dark dwarves idk why the race just has always appealed to me.
 



Yes, you would.  Everybody in the game-universe would react to you being a Duergar.  Ergo, you're a Duergar.
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Duergar in 4e are Con/Wis, have darkvision, and a racial power which keys off constitution, and that's about it.

Mechanically, you would be slightly better off with a Con or Wis primary class.  What do you want your character to do?  Have you decided on a role, a power source, whether you want to be ranged or melee, or anything in your character background?
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/

In that case fighter.

I will reiterate that you will get better answers if you provide more info on what you want to play.  



Fighter is actually a terrible plan.  And they do have an official PC writeup in MM2.

Iirc Duergar in 4e are Con/Wis.  Which means no +str for fighter.  Basically look through the classes that are Con/Wis primary and pick one.  Although, again, you will be worse off than a dwarf. 



.... The main point of my post was "Here is a generic unhelpful bit of advice to go with your generic unhelpful request". It was intended to reiterate, that if the OP wants anything more helpful than a 1 word answer, they should provide more information. 

MM write ups are specifically not for PCs (or at the DMs discretion). 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"


In that case fighter.

I will reiterate that you will get better answers if you provide more info on what you want to play.  



Fighter is actually a terrible plan.  And they do have an official PC writeup in MM2.

Iirc Duergar in 4e are Con/Wis.  Which means no +str for fighter.  Basically look through the classes that are Con/Wis primary and pick one.  Although, again, you will be worse off than a dwarf. 



.... The main point of my post was "Here is a generic unhelpful bit of advice to go with your generic unhelpful request". It was intended to reiterate, that if the OP wants anything more helpful than a 1 word answer, they should provide more information. 

MM write ups are specifically not for PCs (or at the DMs discretion). 




MM writeups are perfectly allowable in games just as much as any other race?  Sure a DM can say "no bugbear characters" but the DM can also so "No Deva characters" just as easily.  There isn't anything that specifically prohibits you from being able to take MM PC writeups.  The whole point of them is so that players can take them and use them as PCs.
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
away from books, but im pretty sure the first MM has a section about you shouldn't let PCs use them.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

Several of the monsters in the Monster Manual have racial
traits and powers, not unlike the races presented in the
Player’s Handbook. In general, these traits and powers are provided
to help Dungeon Masters create nonplayer characters
(NPCs). This information can also be used as guidelines for
creating player character (PC) versions of these creatures,
within reason. Note that these traits and powers are more in
line with monster powers than with player character powers.
A player should only use one of the following races to
create a character with the permission of the Dungeon
Master. The DM should carefully consider which monster
races, if any, to allow as PCs in his or her campaign.

Doesn't say they shouldn't be allowed.  Just says to talk to your DM.

Considering almost all monster races are a severe step behind the power curve of normal races it is harder to sell playing one of them from a mechanical standpoint than anything else.

This isn't 3.X where monster races were so horribly implemented they might as well have shot themselves in the foot. 

Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
yeah, that bit.
  In general, these traits and powers are provided
to help Dungeon Masters create nonplayer characters
(NPCs).

says to me that you probably shouldn't use them. As in, "Here are some rules we included because if we didn't people would riot, but seriously don't use these". 

You can read that to mean "Here are some other races for players to use" if you want, but I don't think that was the intent. 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

yeah, that bit.
  In general, these traits and powers are provided
to help Dungeon Masters create nonplayer characters
(NPCs).

says to me that you probably shouldn't use them. As in, "Here are some rules we included because if we didn't people would riot, but seriously don't use these". 

You can read that to mean "Here are some other races for players to use" if you want, but I don't think that was the intent. 



It doesn't say 'don't use them'.  It very clearly, plainly, and obviously says 'use them carefully'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

It doesn't say 'don't use them'.  It very clearly, plainly, and obviously says 'use them carefully'.



This.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Use with caution generally means "We can't stop you from using this, but that was not the intention". 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"

"Your advice is the worst"

Use with caution generally means "We can't stop you from using this, but that was not the intention". 



Or... it means "use with caution".  It didn't even have that in there.  It said "within reason", which seems to imply "We don't think we made any of these characters overpowered, but if someone makes something overpowered don't let them use it."
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Yeah, 'use with caution' means, surprisingly enough, 'use with caution'.

Sometimes, things actually are EXACTLY what meets the eye.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Really the biggest reason to not use them is the lack of support for them.  I can't think of any of those races that would be over powered and unbalancing.  As for the OP, if I were going to make a duergar, I'd probably make some sort of melee cleric focused on wis powers, or maybe a con based warlock.
Really the biggest reason to not use them is the lack of support for them.  I can't think of any of those races that would be over powered and unbalancing. 



Well, anything with Oversized is certainly questionable.

Lack of support may or may not be an issue.  I certainly never cared; I was playing Shifters and Warforged long before the Eberron Campaign Setting or the PHB2.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Any class would work fine. Since you're choosing duergar because you like it, pick the class because you like it, not because it would make an optimal character with a duergar. It's not necessary to optimize, especially in 4th Edition.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

Oh I understand exactly what you mean.  I was playing drow rangers before I heard of Drizzt too.  I was really disappointed when I found out that not only was my idea /not/ original, it had spawned a legion of fanboys.

Fortunately, I've never been a fan of scimitars so, /that/ at least should never be a problem.
I wouldn't say fighter is a terrible choice. Not optimized sure, but not terrible. They have two ability score secondaries and darkvision. That's at least something. A duergar sorcerer or blackguard? Maybe not a good idea.

I would recommend Warlock myself, a lot of racial fluff with that if you're interested. If you like a class concept but are less optimized for the pick, just pick something close and reskin it. A good DM adjusts to his players capabilities however, so don't worry over it much.

Fortunately, I've never been a fan of scimitars so, /that/ at least should never be a problem.



"Did you see those warriors from [The Forgotten Realms]? They've got curved swords. Curved. Swords."


The fanbase has even spread into the virtual world...



HTH

He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. -Revelation 21:6

Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.-John Donne, Meditation XVII

My photo was found here.

I'm just going to pretend its the katana fanbois, meeting the wheel of time fanbois that inspire so many curved blades.

can you imagine if Salvatorre would have put katanas in Drizzt's hands?  /facepalm
It is nearly impossible to make a bad character in 4e unless you really try. Some combinations and options are less optimal than others.
 I would go with a battlemind or a Warpriest (essentials cleric). Both match stats for Duergar, and if I remember correctly were naturally psionic in past editions. The battlemind and Domination domain warpriest both deal with psionics or psychic damage which seems to be a nice thematic fit.
That always seems to be the case with dark dwarves in fantasy games . But I've always liked them. Despite your opinion on the Duergar what would you suggest for a class?
 



Duegar are playable but do not have the options of the Dwarven race.

I suggest Battlemind if you insist on playing one if you want to go tank.

You can always use the Dwarf race and call it a Duegar or better yet make him a Dwarf/Duegar halfbreed.