Do something OTHER than Forgotten Realms

I'd like to see anything OTHER than the Forgotten Realms at this point.  I have no interest whatsoever in the bombed-out shell of post-4E FR, and another setting nuke is really not going to fix anything that's actually wrong with FR. 

I'm not spending a dime on this "Sundering" nonsense.

It's way past time for something else.  Dust off Greyhawk and give it a polish.  DON'T put it through another war or cataclysm, just give it really nice detailed artwork and a nice soft-back or hardback.

I'd take Nentir Vale, happily.

Or Mystara, Dragonlance, Planescape, Ravenloft... anything. 

Heck, even go create something new.  A nice, new generic fantasy world would be a pleasant sight.

If anyone did a decent job of explaining what was "actually wrong" with FR, then I'd have some shred of comprehension about your post.

So far, all I've seen have basically been "I don't like it."  That doesn't explain much, nor explain what could actually be done to make them happy.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Is the OP talking about the default setting? If so, I'd like to see NO default. They can put out setting books and have a section in the back of modules about the adventure in various settings. (IE starting village in FR is this and it's that in grayhawk) PLEASE keep the base rules as fluff free as possible.
Is the OP talking about the default setting? If so, I'd like to see NO default. They can put out setting books and have a section in the back of modules about the adventure in various settings. (IE starting village in FR is this and it's that in grayhawk) PLEASE keep the base rules as fluff free as possible.

+1.

No default setting. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Is the OP talking about the default setting? If so, I'd like to see NO default. They can put out setting books and have a section in the back of modules about the adventure in various settings. (IE starting village in FR is this and it's that in grayhawk) PLEASE keep the base rules as fluff free as possible.

+1.

No default setting. 



+2 no default setting

default settings blow mega chunks





btw the realms are not going to be the default setting just the first one out the door 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
If anyone did a decent job of explaining what was "actually wrong" with FR, then I'd have some shred of comprehension about your post.

So far, all I've seen have basically been "I don't like it."  That doesn't explain much, nor explain what could actually be done to make them happy.


I could put up a whole list of everything I think is wrong with the Realms, just like many other posters have done over the years.  Honestly, if you've missed them all or somehow think they're all invalid despite WotC's decision to nuke FR for 4E or nuke it again for 5E, no specific reason or set of reasons is going to satisfy you.

And it's really not my point to create yet another laundry list on what's wrong with FR.

I'm just tired of it, and totally over it.  I have no interest in future FR products.  I want WotC to do something new - or to seriously revisit one of their much older settings and give that some attention and funding.  I think they're putting way too much effort and expense into FR, when they could be doing something fresh and new or updating a different previous setting.

I don't want any setting to be "default" or "primary" at this point.

btw the realms are not going to be the default setting just the first one out the door 



This.  FR is first. hopefully, others will follow.  In the spirit of the Next design philosophy, I don't foresee cataclysms in the other settings.  Rather, the books will simply offer advice for adapting them to the mechanics of the new edition, and primarily serve as story fodder.

Dark Sun, I assume, will require rules on defling as well as its own bestiary.  I doubt it could be released until they figure out psionics rules.

Greyhawk just needs a polish and a campaign guide.

Dragonlance would get rules for draconians and the wizardly towers.

Planescape could be released concurrently with a Manual of Planes. 

Nentir Vale would just need soem polish.  Hopefully, they'll get Richard Baker to write the book.

I'd like to see Birthright released, probably alonside a supplement detailign soem mass combat rules and other Legacy modules. 

I disagree that there shouldn't be any default setting. I believe a default setting is one of the most important things to sell the game to new players.


Starting with D&D already involves more than enough work and the least thing new players and especially DMs want it to get the task of world building on top of all that.


Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


The player who just took it on him to learn all the rules to roll up his first cleric wants a finished deity to chose, not to also have to invent a deity for his character


 

I think they're putting way too much effort and expense into FR, when they could be doing something fresh and new or updating a different previous setting.

They are putting this effort into it because it sells and a whole lot of people want more of it. Trying something new always bears the huge risk of less people wanting it and your effort yielding less return
Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.

But the game is not going to impose it on players hwo on't want ti and will not hard-bake it into the rules.

James Wyatt's Wandering Monsters articles ar emaking clear there will be default flavor that approximates a generic gaming world of a type.  It doesn't have a name, it has no history and no set geography.  If you wnat that provided, you need to cough up a few more bucks and get the FR release. 
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Dark Sun, I assume, will require rules on defling as well as its own bestiary.  I doubt it could be released until they figure out psionics rules.

Greyhawk just needs a polish and a campaign guide.

Dragonlance would get rules for draconians and the wizardly towers.

Planescape could be released concurrently with a Manual of Planes. 

Nentir Vale would just need soem polish.  Hopefully, they'll get Richard Baker to write the book.

I'd like to see Birthright released, probably alonside a supplement detailign soem mass combat rules and other Legacy modules. 


Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

Greyhawk YES!  I'd love, love, love to see a polished hardback of Greyhawk with really nice maps by Schley (sp?).

Planescape would be great, though it was pretty elegant when it came out originally. 

Nentir Vale would be excellent also, and really is still a fairly blank slate at this point.

Mass combat rules with Birthright would be great also.

 - so many good ways to go!


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.

Which they won't have unless they know in advance that they have to buy this additional book and are willing to do so.

Someone just sitting there with his PHB also wants all he needs right there.

Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
 Which they won't have unless they know in advance that they have to buy this additional book and are willing to do so.



For more than a decade, the books have had ads in the back decribing the other D&D products available.  The boo can very easily let people know thatif they want a premade campaign world that the Forgetten Realms Campaign Setting is available for purchase.  It will also be sitting on the shelf next to the PHB and it's book jacket will explain this all to prospective buyers. On the online retailers, the Forgotten Realms CS will find itself int he "Also Recommended" section.

Someone just sitting there with his PHB also wants all he needs right there.


They're not going to shove a 400-page campaign setting book into the 400-page PHB.  People want a lot of things, but I think the conumership will understand you might have to cough up a few more bucks for another few hundred pages of content. 

Some people are also not going to want to spend double for a campaign setting they aren't plannign to use. They should have the opprtunity to buy the PHB without a campaign setting grafted onto it.
Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?


Way to pick and choose, just to troll me.

I didn't buy anything in 4E, so my last exposure to Dark Sun was in the 1990s.

Reset the settings to their original deal: no Time of Troubles, Age of Mortals, Faction War, Grand Conjunction, Prism Pentad, etc.
Pointing out that 4e exists and had campaign setting products that were fun and useful is not trolling.

Sorry.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

I disagree that there shouldn't be any default setting. I believe a default setting is one of the most important things to sell the game to new players.


Starting with D&D already involves more than enough work and the least thing new players and especially DMs want it to get the task of world building on top of all that.



Getting new players involved in D&D is critical. However, this does not require a default setting. The fun of D&D comes from going on quests, defeating monsters, solving puzzles, finding treasure and so forth. None of that requires a default setting. What it requires are well written adventures that are available in or packaged with the core products. This way new players can jump right in without having to worry about all the details of a setting. Once players get into it, then they can look for other products to expand their new-found hobby, and for some, campaign settings will be the way to go.

Personally, I always found the weight of FR lore to be so massive that it makes is hard to get into. I would be much more interested in dusting off an old setting or creating a new one. From a marketing perspective, leading off with FR makes sense because of all the people who love that setting. The implication is that we will continue to see settings released on a regular basis after the launch of 5e.

Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?




Four, in a way, the original 2nd Ed Boxed set, the second 2nd Ed ("expanded") boxed set, then the 3rd Ed Dragon action, and the 4th Ed version.
Dark Sun, I assume, will require rules on defling as well as its own bestiary.  I doubt it could be released until they figure out psionics rules. 

I assume defiling/preserving would come out as a class.  Or rather as wizard sub-classes (tradition).

It would be cool to see sorcerer-king warlocks as well.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Defiling isn't class-based, though.  All arcane classes will interact with it, it has to be one of the system-level adjustments independent of class.  "Just don't choose the defiler tradition" can't be an option in Dark Sun.  Every arcane caster must interact with defiling, either by being a defiler or a preserver.  There is no neutral ground.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?




Four, in a way, the original 2nd Ed Boxed set, the second 2nd Ed ("expanded") boxed set, then the 3rd Ed Dragon action, and the 4th Ed version.


I more meant "it's been two years since Dark Sun's last printed release"
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Pointing out that 4e exists and had campaign setting products that were fun and useful is not trolling.

Sorry.


If they took the new fluff / history of Dark Sun from its 4E book and updated it for 5E (or made it edition-free), I'd consider buying it.  I can't be the only person who skipped everything in 4E - whether it was good or not.

Thing is, though, this isn't about 4E at all.  I played a little 4E and didn't have any issues with it as a rule system.  I just didn't care to invest in anything related to that system.  This sub-forum is for 5E/Next.

Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?


Way to pick and choose, just to troll me.

I didn't buy anything in 4E, so my last exposure to Dark Sun was in the 1990s.


You complained about what 4e did to FR, so why would anyone assume you hadn't looked at 4e settings? And out of curiosity, how would the edition alter your enjoyment and use of one of the fluff setting books? Fluff isn't bound by the edition.

Pointing out that 4e exists and had campaign setting products that were fun and useful is not trolling.

Sorry.


If they took the new fluff / history of Dark Sun from its 4E book and updated it for 5E (or made it edition-free), I'd consider buying it.  I can't be the only person who skipped everything in 4E - whether it was good or not.

Thing is, though, this isn't about 4E at all.  I played a little 4E and didn't have any issues with it as a rule system.  I just didn't care to invest in anything related to that system.  This sub-forum is for 5E/Next.



And you created a thread about campaign settings, which are edition-independent.  And then seemed to indicate you were pretending a hefty chunk of the campaign setting books didn't exist.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Dark Sun would be very interesting to see after all these years.

...all two of them?




Four, in a way, the original 2nd Ed Boxed set, the second 2nd Ed ("expanded") boxed set, then the 3rd Ed Dragon action, and the 4th Ed version.


I more meant "it's been two years since Dark Sun's last printed release"



Ah, yes, well, that brings on whole new elements.

I still like when a setting is released, and, bang, that's about it (like the glorious Al-Qadim), not too much meddling from busy authors with their modules/novels, ruining the meta-setting.

And you created a thread about campaign settings, which are edition-independent.  And then seemed to indicate you were pretending a hefty chunk of the campaign setting books didn't exist.


If campaign settings were actually edition-independent, they wouldn't be loaded with 50% crunch, nor would FR have "needed" to be revamped to explain the changes in magic or the planes.
A campaign setting is not whatever numbers they decided to put in Drizzt's statblock this time around.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
A campaign setting is not whatever numbers they decided to put in Drizzt's statblock this time around.




In my current FR campaign Drizzt is working as rough trade on the streets of Calimport.
If anyone did a decent job of explaining what was "actually wrong" with FR, then I'd have some shred of comprehension about your post.

So far, all I've seen have basically been "I don't like it."  That doesn't explain much, nor explain what could actually be done to make them happy.



The changes 4e made to the FR ruined it for a lot of people.  If you start there, you'll have a far greater understanding ;)
I wouldn't mind a Living Eberron OP this time around  Cool

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.

Which they won't have unless they know in advance that they have to buy this additional book and are willing to do so.

Someone just sitting there with his PHB also wants all he needs right there.


Except you can't just play with the PHB.  Someone needs to be the DM.


Personally i would do something like...

D&DN: Core.  The common rules (like 4e's), and anything else that is required to play.  (elves arn't required, nor is the rogue).

Forgotten Realms: Players Book.  Races, Classes, backgrounds, feats, ect.  All tied in with forgotten realms lore.  (elf subrace A live in this forest, dwarves subrace B live here, ect..).
Forgotten Realms: DM's book.    Monsters, locations, adventures, magic items (mabey), ect.  Again, heavy tie-in's to story and lore.

You can put those 3 books in a starter set.  Then you can relase other settings.

Dark Sun: Players Book.  With it's own set of elves, wizards, and such.
Dark Sun: DM's Book.   Again, monsters, locations, adventures.

(insert setting#3): Players Book.
(insert setting#3): DM Book.

Build Your Own: Players Book.  (mabey).
Build Your Own: DM's Book.


Each players book will offer new (sub)races, and new (sub)classes.  The only dependancy anything would have would be on the 1 core book.  That will lead to some duplication feats (skill focus), races (elves, but not their sub-race), ect, but it should be fairly minimal.  Though some of this can be put into the core book.


And while things will have heavy story/lore/campaign tie-ins, the races, feats, ect, the races, monsters, classes, ect.. should be very light on any story/lore/campaign mechanics (no feat for bonus damage against the house of lyrandar).  Allowing you to use grayhawk elves in forgotten realms, or dark sun defilers in eberon.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.



Not everyone can afford to buy the core set and a campaign setting all at once.  Especially new players who are young.  The core set needs to have some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games while they save up for a campaign setting or master the game to the point where they want to build one.  It's not a defalt setting so much as default setting pieces.

I have a bit of a conflicting opinion on campaign settings and whether they are default or not...

For the most part, I don't want any campaign setting to be assumed as default - I like them to have enough space in their own product to be rich and filled with information (though I like their mechanical chances to be as minimal as is possible, like adding defiling to arcane magic in general, and letting "gladiator" be a job someone had/has rather than designing independant classes to do those things).

...but I absolutely hate having to buy more than 1 physical product in order to get a full game - always have, probably because the first time I ever bought a game like that I had absolutely no clue because I didn't see the ads for the other books until I got home, which meant that a 12-year-old me had to beg for someone to take me back to the book store just to get the rest of what I needed in order to play the game I thought I just bought (specifically, I needed two more books and some dice).

My ideal product for a game is a single thing (book or box, doesn't really matter) that has everything you need in order to get started (player rules, DM rules, monsters, and enough info on a campaign setting to be able to have clerics of a variety of faiths and start some exploration) - even if you will need more products later to expand.

I dunno... I guess I don't like the idea of having to buy 3 books just to get the basic rules, then also having to pick up another I want a setting to play in - It's something I plan on never doing again, I dislike it so bad - but I am totally okay with having to buy 3 books if the first is everything I need for the first few levels, the 2nd is everything needed to add more levels and expand the setting, and the 3rd does the same even further.

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.



Not everyone can afford to buy the core set and a campaign setting all at once.  Especially new players who are young.  The core set needs to have some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games while they save up for a campaign setting or master the game to the point where they want to build one.  It's not a defalt setting so much as default setting pieces.



Gah.  It's like talking to two people, one of whom only reads the even-numbered words and the other who only reads the odd-numbered ones.

"Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot" (what Mirtek described as what the initial books are likely to contain) is "some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games"!!

So people who can't afford the FR sourcebook will have "some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games" and those who can will have " useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book".

 
Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.



Not everyone can afford to buy the core set and a campaign setting all at once.  Especially new players who are young.  The core set needs to have some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games while they save up for a campaign setting or master the game to the point where they want to build one.  It's not a defalt setting so much as default setting pieces.



I fully expect 4e-style PoL elements.  I'm not sure how you can strip out much more than that and still have things like domains in the cleric section.

The 4e PHB was functional, on its own, without any campaign setting book.  That's what generic looks like.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot might be prefered for veteran players and DMs, but new bloods want useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book.


Which is why FR is being released at the beginning of the game.  For people who want a pre-packaged universe, the FR will be that universe.



Not everyone can afford to buy the core set and a campaign setting all at once.  Especially new players who are young.  The core set needs to have some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games while they save up for a campaign setting or master the game to the point where they want to build one.  It's not a defalt setting so much as default setting pieces.



Gah.  It's like talking to two people, one of whom only reads the even-numbered words and the other who only reads the odd-numbered ones.

"Vague hints of possible deities and domains and whatsnot" (what Mirtek described as what the initial books are likely to contain) is "some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games"!!

So people who can't afford the FR sourcebook will have "some deities, a basic cosmology, etc. that new DMs can use to run games" and those who can will have " useable worlds and pantheons right out of the book".

 



My bad.  I missed that.  Sometimes having to read quickly while at work doesn't work out so well
I would love to see a completely new Setting developped by WOTC, but something of that grandeur would require quite a bit of attention in order to 'get it right'.

Mike Mearls has already mentioned that they want to focus on one Setting at a time, make sure they get it right then move on to the next.

Given that Forgotten Realms will be the first setting, I don't think there is any hope of another setting available upon release. Besides, those upcomming settings is what is going to help fund the company for upcomming years.

Anyways, before even considering a new setting, I believe they will work on what they have currently: FR, Greyhawk, DragonLance, Dark Sun, Eberon, Planescape, Ravenloft etc.
If anyone did a decent job of explaining what was "actually wrong" with FR, then I'd have some shred of comprehension about your post.

So far, all I've seen have basically been "I don't like it."  That doesn't explain much, nor explain what could actually be done to make them happy.



I can not speak for others, but when the spell plague hit and Mystara died(Imagine that a god dying!) FR has since spun downward at an increasingly rate of speed. 
I would love to see a completely new Setting developped by WOTC, but something of that grandeur would require quite a bit of attention in order to 'get it right'.

Mike Mearls has already mentioned that they want to focus on one Setting at a time, make sure they get it right then move on to the next.

Given that Forgotten Realms will be the first setting, I don't think there is any hope of another setting available upon release. Besides, those upcomming settings is what is going to help fund the company for upcomming years.

Anyways, before even considering a new setting, I believe they will work on what they have currently: FR, Greyhawk, DragonLance, Dark Sun, Eberon, Planescape, Ravenloft etc.

I'd really like to see a new setting too.

However, i agree.  There's more things that "need" to be done first.  Like the game itself.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

(Imagine that a god dying!)


I'm not taking issue with your assessment of FR, but I have little trouble imagining a god dying.  The Babylonians had a bunch of dead gods, including Tiamat, Absu, Qingu, Tammuz, and others. The Norse has Balder. The Egyptians had Osiris (though he came back). I'm not even getting into deities who have died that are presently worshiped.
If anyone did a decent job of explaining what was "actually wrong" with FR, then I'd have some shred of comprehension about your post.

So far, all I've seen have basically been "I don't like it."  That doesn't explain much, nor explain what could actually be done to make them happy.



I can not speak for others, but when the spell plague hit and Mystara died(Imagine that a god dying!) FR has since spun downward at an increasingly rate of speed. 



Not just any god, but the same one over and over and over.  Mystral, Mystra 1 and then Mystra 2.  Yes, other gods died as well, but come on.  D&D just has it out for FR gods of magic