Red Deck Wins Help

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Alrighty im looking at making my red deck wins deck but i wanna hear from all of you. Now i know Hellkites are HUGE in this but money is an issue for those so yeah... This is what im looking at right now.

4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler 
4x Ash Zealot 
4x Gore-House Chainwalker
2x Lightning Mauler
2x Pyreheart wolf
4x Hell rider
1x Archwing Dragon 
creatures: 25

2x Brimstone Volley
2x Geistflame
2x Searing Spear
4x Pillar of Flame
1x Devil's Play
1x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Thunderbolt
spells: 15

4x Hellion of Crucible
20x mountains

SideBoard:
2x Splatter Thug
2x Rakdos Shred-Freak
1x Ring of Valkas
1x Rakdos Keyrune
1x Flames of the Firebrand
3x Thunderbolt
1x Thunderous Wrath
2x Mark of Mutiny 
2x Mizzium Mortars
 Cards: 15
64 cards maindeck? Try and get it down to 60. Without a 5-drop, 23 land should suffice, and if you can reduce your 4-drops by 1-2, you can drop down to 22 land. I run 22 land in my Zombies list, and its curve tops out at a set of Aristocrat. 3 Crucible, 19 Mountain is probably how I'd go about it.
64 cards maindeck? Try and get it down to 60. Without a 5-drop, 23 land should suffice, and if you can reduce your 4-drops by 1-2, you can drop down to 22 land. I run 22 land in my Zombies list, and its curve tops out at a set of Aristocrat. 3 Crucible, 19 Mountain is probably how I'd go about it.

Alright yeah that sounds good, anything creature wise for 5-drops that you can think of for a decent price? I just dont wanna drop 39$ for one card.
Only 5 drop worth the time to play it is Hellkite. Don't bother with the 5 drop slot if you can't swing the cash.

Though that Bonefire is 2 Hellkites if I recall prices.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Nosir, Bonfire down to about 25-26, just barely more than Snapcaster, while Hellkite is around 40 most shops.
Wow how the mighty have fallen.

In that case less Geistflame more Spear.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Four Crucibles is WAY too many. It will result in many mulligans. You need to start with two . I've been running two and I've gotten away with it so far, but I've never actually gotten to use the thing. I'm seriously considering dropping it altogether.

In any case, you can almost certainly run this with a little less than 24 lands.
Alright thanks everyone! ill switch it to two crucibles, also what do you all think of stonewrights for the side board? I'm not 100% sure if they are a good fit for the deck.
On 24 lands I've never been punished for my 4 Crucibles. I have yet to not be able to stick a turn 2 Zealot or Shred-Freak. I rarely ever have had to activate one but when I have its been because I was either already winning or was try to break a board stall. A few times its been for their intended reason, rebounding from a board wipe. I've never been not glad to see one.

I've only had to pitch 1 opening hand because I was rocking two of them but bad hands happen.

Stonewright is solid. I run 2 MD since I opt to skip the 3 drop slot and all my 2 drops have haste. Gives me something to do before Hellrider and Hellkite.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Plus firebreathing + first strike = pwn
On 24 lands I've never been punished for my 4 Crucibles. I have yet to not be able to stick a turn 2 Zealot or Shred-Freak. I rarely ever have had to activate one but when I have its been because I was either already winning or was try to break a board stall. A few times its been for their intended reason, rebounding from a board wipe. I've never been not glad to see one. I've only had to pitch 1 opening hand because I was rocking two of them but bad hands happen. Stonewright is solid. I run 2 MD since I opt to skip the 3 drop slot and all my 2 drops have haste. Gives me something to do before Hellrider and Hellkite.



Ok so 4 crucibles is alright, and Stonewrights are good, would you recomend them over the lightening maulers? I was thinking about having them in SB just to switch with lightening maulers sometimes. And man i need money for Hellkite lol
DO NOT buy Hellkite right now, it has nowhere to go but down from here. As soon as a deck that doesn't run them starts dominating again, you'll be left with a quarter of your investment if you're lucky. If you REALLY wanna spend some money on making this deck totally ****ing metal, snap up some Blood Crypt reprints, trade for some Dragonskull Summits and catch Aristocrat when she plummets again (aggressive red creatures cannot stay high-priced, that's blue/white's job).

Hellrider is also going to tank and everyone knows it. This B/r aggro market bubble is a hilarious fluke.

Stonewright and Lightning Mauler fill two entirely different roles in your deck; one is a 1-drop and the other is a 2-drop. You want around 10 different turn 1 plays for RDW (4 Noble, 4 Cackler, 2 Stonewright). 9 or 11 is fine also, but your victory depends on you playing a creature your first turn.
DO NOT buy Hellkite right now, it has nowhere to go but down from here. As soon as a deck that doesn't run them starts dominating again, you'll be left with a quarter of your investment if you're lucky. If you REALLY wanna spend some money on making this deck totally ****ing metal, snap up some Blood Crypt reprints, trade for some Dragonskull Summits and catch Aristocrat when she plummets again. This also allows you to run Olivia in the sideboard.

Stonewright and Lightning Mauler fill two entirely different roles in your deck; one is a 1-drop and the other is a 2-drop. You want around 10 different turn 1 plays for RDW (4 Noble, 4 whatever the other one was, 2 Stonewright, or 4/3/3 could also be good).



Yeah im hoping Hellkite drops soon haha 40 bucks too much. And thank you for the advice on Stonewrights and Lightning Maulers. What do you all think of Balefire Dragon? Personally i think it would be funny to get it out but its mana cost is to high imo.....Oh and yeah i already have some Dragonskull summits/Blood Crypt's im just waiting for prices to drop haha.
Balefire costs more mana than Thundermaw, and does not have haste. That's a negative, good buddy. It's designed for EDH and maybe reanimator, but even reanimator has better options.

As I said earlier, top your curve out at 4.

Black splash allows you to run Hellhole Flailer in the 3-slot, and Knight of Infamy in the 2. Hellhole Flailer could be fun with Lightning Mauler.

Oh yeah, that's why people run Lightning Mauler: When you're playing a deck you know to have board wipes, sandbag a Lightning Mauler and another creature that costs few enough mana to play with Lightning Mauler, pair them and beat the tar out of your control-playing opponent.
Balefire costs more mana than Thundermaw, and does not have haste. That's a negative, good buddy. It's designed for EDH and maybe reanimator, but even reanimator has better options.

As I said earlier, top your curve out at 4.

Black splash allows you to run Hellhole Flailer in the 3-slot, and Knight of Infamy in the 2. Hellhole Flailer could be fun with Lightning Mauler.

Oh yeah, that's why people run Lightning Mauler: When you're playing a deck you know to have board wipes, sandbag a Lightning Mauler and another creature that costs few enough mana to play with Lightning Mauler, pair them and beat the tar out of your control-playing opponent.




Alright thanks and yeah i wasnt going to run it i just was thinking of things that would make me laugh if i saw it happen in a game. The main reason im making this deck is i got rolled by board wipes with my old list and the Vexing Devils i had just didnt do anything because people would just take the damage. I realized i needed creatures on the field so i took them out. 
It also just occurred to me you could have a very crude Fireball with Stonewright + Hellhole Flailer.
It also just occurred to me you could have a very crude Fireball with Stonewright + Hellhole Flailer.



Wow thats true. If i end up switching to B/R i would try that out for sure
Oh i was wondering about Zealous Conscripts over Mark of Mutiny. Since its basically Mark of Mutiny + a 3-3 haste, for just 2 mana cost more.
Mark costs 3, but gives you +1 damage to the creature you stole. Conscripts costs 5, but gives you +3 damage, divided, and is any permanent so you could steal any damn thing you want. Comes down to personal taste, but Conscripts costs 2  more.
Alright tehbeast you have given me a ton of advice! Thanks!
Zealous Conscripts isn't really a great card in aggro deck because of its high cost. She goes well with midrange decks such as Naya and Jund, but that's pretty much it. As far as RDW goes, if you dont have Thundermaw Hellkite, skip the 5 cmc slot altogether.

Also, I just want to point out that Traitorous Blood is pretty much always better than Mark of Mutiny, as trample is more relevant than a +1 counter that may come and bite you back. Also, with t blood you can do cute stuff such as stealing their thragtusk and spearing it, keeping the beast token.

Lastly, Stonewright is a boss. He shines the must versus control, in which case you can use his firebreathing to deal tons of damage without overextending, but he is almost never not relevant (unlike most 1 drops).
Zealous Conscripts can be a good sideboard card against control opponents playing the blue planeswalkers - the Jaces and Tamiyo. Once you get the conscripts in your hand you hold on to it until your opponent has their planeswalker ready to ultimate and then on your turn you drop the conscripts and take the planeswalker and trigger the ultimate for yourself. I've faced a few control opponents that were able to stall me long enough that they thought they had control for the long game, but once they prime their planeswalker I just grab it and my game comes back from the agony of defeat.

No comparison to the hellkite, but I think it can have a place in the sideboard for use against control.

I think the most work that needs to be done to Bangtor's build is in the sideboard - needs to have more cards that are threat specific and less cards that would be good in the deck if there was room.
Zealous Conscripts can be a good sideboard card against control opponents playing the blue planeswalkers - the Jaces and Tamiyo. Once you get the conscripts in your hand you hold on to it until your opponent has their planeswalker ready to ultimate and then on your turn you drop the conscripts and take the planeswalker and trigger the ultimate for yourself. I've faced a few control opponents that were able to stall me long enough that they thought they had control for the long game, but once they prime their planeswalker I just grab it and my game comes back from the agony of defeat.

No comparison to the hellkite, but I think it can have a place in the sideboard for use against control.

I think the most work that needs to be done to Bangtor's build is in the sideboard - needs to have more cards that are threat specific and less cards that would be good in the deck if there was room.



Any ideas for sideboard cards that would help?
Alright so this is the edited deck list so far....not alot of changes but some
The main changes were to the side board and the spells, i put an extra archwing dragon in there for now will prolly end up switching the SB archwing out for something else not 100% sure though.
VERSION 2:

4x Stromkirk Noble

4x Rakdos Cackler 
4x Ash Zealot 
4x Gore-House Chainwalker
2x Lightning Mauler
2x Pyreheart wolf
4x Hell rider
1x Archwing Dragon 
creatures: 25

3x Brimstone Volley
2x Geistflame
4x Searing Spear
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Thunderbolt
1x Bonfire of the Damned
spells: 15

4x Hellion of Crucible
20x mountains

SideBoard:
1x Devil's Play
1x Archwing Dragon
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Stonewright
1x Flames of the Firebrand
3x Thunderbolt
1x Thunderous Wrath
2x Mark of Mutiny 
2x Mizzium Mortars
 Cards: 15
 
Cut 1 Thunderbolt, 2 Geistflame and 1 Hellion Crucible from your main. Otherwise it looks pretty good.
alright thanks!
i think electrickery is much better than geistflame
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/rCB4r.jpg)
why do you say that?
the overload, you can kill a lot of 1 toughness creatures, being lingering souls or arbor elf/pilgrams. Probably wouldn't mainboard it though
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/rCB4r.jpg)
yeah i wouldnt mainboard it eathier
I am pleased to be able to report a FNM First place undefeated win last night with this:



R1 - 2-0 vs WU Control
R2 - 2-1 vs BG (Either zombies or reanimator. He didn't get that far.)
R3 - 2-0 vs BR Midrange
R4 - 2-0 vs Mono Red Burn
R5 - 2-1 vs BR Midrange (Had a cool sacrifice engine going: Mark of Mutiny/Blood Artist/Bloodthrone Vampire with Aristcrat and Olivia)

This deck basically just paid for itself last night.

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Catotheyounger wrote:
Back when I was in high school, I used to write little quotes on the whiteboard of my chemistry class, little, funny things that I'd made up and attributed to an anonymous author. Just tiny things I found amusing. Some time near the end of the year, a substitute teacher came in, read it, and told us a quote she had heard from a 13 year old girl. I don't remember what it was, but the quote sounded deep and philosophical. Then I actually thought about it. I realized that the quote was actually meaningless, but simply couched in the language of philosophy and depth. And that's what your post is. It is meaningless bull**** that you said in such a way as to make it seem sophisticated. But just as a lab coat doesn't make you a scientist, language won't make you a philosopher. Only love of wisdom will. And until then, you will always remind me of a nameless 13 year old girl.
I am pleased to be able to report a FNM First place undefeated win last night with this:

Was this by any chance at a certain FLGS in southern NH?

That's quite possible. I don't suppose you've seen a deck like that recently?

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Catotheyounger wrote:
Back when I was in high school, I used to write little quotes on the whiteboard of my chemistry class, little, funny things that I'd made up and attributed to an anonymous author. Just tiny things I found amusing. Some time near the end of the year, a substitute teacher came in, read it, and told us a quote she had heard from a 13 year old girl. I don't remember what it was, but the quote sounded deep and philosophical. Then I actually thought about it. I realized that the quote was actually meaningless, but simply couched in the language of philosophy and depth. And that's what your post is. It is meaningless bull**** that you said in such a way as to make it seem sophisticated. But just as a lab coat doesn't make you a scientist, language won't make you a philosopher. Only love of wisdom will. And until then, you will always remind me of a nameless 13 year old girl.
That's quite possible. I don't suppose you've seen a deck like that recently?

Hypothetically, if it was, then I would have been the U/W spirit deck you obliterated: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I'll PM you to verify the story. Too funny if it's true. Regardless, congratulations on the win! I went 3-2, so I'm happy.
Yes, I remember. The Delver deck first round. 3-2 is not bad. Good to see you got it to work for you.

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Catotheyounger wrote:
Back when I was in high school, I used to write little quotes on the whiteboard of my chemistry class, little, funny things that I'd made up and attributed to an anonymous author. Just tiny things I found amusing. Some time near the end of the year, a substitute teacher came in, read it, and told us a quote she had heard from a 13 year old girl. I don't remember what it was, but the quote sounded deep and philosophical. Then I actually thought about it. I realized that the quote was actually meaningless, but simply couched in the language of philosophy and depth. And that's what your post is. It is meaningless bull**** that you said in such a way as to make it seem sophisticated. But just as a lab coat doesn't make you a scientist, language won't make you a philosopher. Only love of wisdom will. And until then, you will always remind me of a nameless 13 year old girl.
LOL did that really just happen? 2 people who played each other met on here?

And holy crap that red deck is burn haha
@Random_Kid - Good job! You're lucky there was no Naya player matchups - you got 5 perfect match-ups pretty much. A Very Magic Christmas for you. Cool

@Bangtor - Look at Random_Kid's sideboard. Your sideboard should looke something like that. Although, I would switch Vandalblast for Torch Fiend and for my local meta I would switch Mizzium Mortars for Reverberate - which is best played in a control match up where your opponent is running Entreat the Angels and/or Sphinx's Revelation.
How do you feel about lightning mauler?
7 of your dudes already have haste, and since i don't consider vexing devil a dude, you have 8 potential 1 drop targets
Is it really better than stonewright or gorehouse chainwalker? 
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/rCB4r.jpg)
LOL did that really just happen? 2 people who played each other met on here?

Yup, I confirmed via PM that it we played the first-round game. My deck is listed here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... (note my comment at the very end, "lost to a fast RDW").

@Random_Kid - Good job! You're lucky there was no Naya player matchups - you got 5 perfect match-ups pretty much. A Very Magic Christmas for you. Cool

@Bangtor - Look at Random_Kid's sideboard. Your sideboard should looke something like that. Although, I would switch Vandalblast for Torch Fiend and for my local meta I would switch Mizzium Mortars for Reverberate - which is best played in a control match up where your opponent is running Entreat the Angels and/or Sphinx's Revelation.



alright ill look into torch fiend the reverberate might not be great at my stores meta but ill look into it.
How do you feel about lightning mauler?
7 of your dudes already have haste, and since i don't consider vexing devil a dude, you have 8 potential 1 drop targets
Is it really better than stonewright or gorehouse chainwalker? 



Rakdos Shred-Freak is the card I've seen most often in that slot.