4e support after the new release..

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Hello

I have a question about how wotc handles new versions of D&D in relation to the old version...

Will they support 4e rules after the release of the 5th edition? If so how much? Will they release more content?

How long is the standard run of a D&D version?

The reason why I am concerened is because I have dropped well over a grand or more on most of the 4th ed books and soon found out that a 5th edition is in the works. I have played rolemaster / harp games for years but in the last year or so switched to 4th ed willing to try it out and for the sure amount of material out there. I would at least  like to get some 4e support after 5th release because now days I do not have loads of time to put together a game. If wotc drops all support I will be hard pressed to buy the books for 5th ed like I did for 4th edition, because the "waste of money" for un-supported books. Yes we can keep using the 4th books, but keep in mind that I im coming from the extra support (by way of adventures and other type materials..) you get with the edition not the ability to play the edition....any thoughts on how others are going to make the switch....

Thanks

Ron
WotC will not create additional material for 4e once 5e is released.  They aren't even releasing any new material for it now.  They did not release any further 3e material prior to 4e's release, and they will not release any further 4e material now that 5e is in the works.

4e's run was shorter than typical because Hasbro bought WotC, and they have utterly unrealistic saves requirements for an RPG product.  Instead of changing their expectations to something reasonable, they demanded WotC release a new version.


tl;dr - 4e fans have been thrown under a bus.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
     It's not 100% sure they won't do anything for 4e, but that is the way to bet, and we are likely talking 99%.  Now there is a chance 5e will prove a disaster and they will put out some 4e stuff just to have something to sell, but it's more likely they will actively try to destroy 4e in the hope 4e fans will convert to 5e.
No- sadly 4th is dead. Pretty much means I will not support D&D Next.
How easy is it to adapt the older material(4E and older), and the newer material(Next and newer), to fit in a 4E game?

My bro is DMing a game using the 4E system, and if they've stopped making stuff for 4E, I'm hoping older and newer material can be adapted for use in the 4E system.
Will they support 4e rules after the release of the 5th edition?

They aren't offering any suport for the 4e rules now, a year before the release of 5e. I would not expect them to do any 4e support after the release. (At least not until 6e, when they try to reunite the lost customers by making a 4e clone and calling it a new edition.)
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
How easy is it to adapt the older material(4E and older), and the newer material(Next and newer), to fit in a 4E game?



  It usually isn't difficult; take the concept and come up with a 4E implementation. Most material can be ported without trouble theme-wise, with mechanical elements being revised or rewritten (or in some cases dropped entirely) along the way.

No- sadly 4th is dead.


I am so sick and tired of hearing that phrase. The system is not 'dead' simply because the company isn't putting out any new material. It's only dead if it's no longer played.

Pretty much means I will not support D&D Next.


I won't fault you this, though. While I'm trying to keep an open mind, the more I read about Next... The less I really want to play it.

Something similar happened with Essentials: I heard about it, was interested and I remained... let's say "hopefully optimistic." Not expecting it to be great, but not expecting it to be bad, either. Then I got a hold of one of the books and was still disappointed.

Which is a shame, really. The last thing I want is to become one of those "The new edition is TERRIBLE!" kinds of fans that decry every new addition to the franchise. But I started with 2e, which I liked, though some of the rules give me a headache to this day. While playing 2e, I discovered 3.5 (yeah, I skipped 3.0, funny how that worked out) and loved it even more than 2e, though I was disappointed by power imbalances between the classes. Then 4e comes out and I was pretty much in love from the moment I picked up the PHB1 and I started getting my collection together.

...So in essence: I'm waiting for the actual release of 5e before I pass my final judgment, but I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to move on... Of course, no one should have to move on. I still like 2e and 3.5, even though 4e is my favorite system these days. I'm just trying to keep an open mind, because I think everyone should keep an open mind.

I apologize, that turned into a rant, didn't it?
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I think the best we can hope for with the future of 4e is that Wizards gives it a good sendoff.  Unfortunately, I think it is much more likely that they will be indifferent at best to 4e fans, and at worst, actively hostile in order to "persuade" us to switch.

What I would like to see is Wizards fill in the holes in 4e, let players download the tools (compendium, character builder, Dragon, etc.) for a one-time fee, and let the community take it and run with it when i comes to new content.
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No- sadly 4th is dead.


I am so sick and tired of hearing that phrase. The system is not 'dead' simply because the company isn't putting out any new material. It's only dead if it's no longer played.

Pretty much means I will not support D&D Next.


I won't fault you this, though. While I'm trying to keep an open mind, the more I read about Next... The less I really want to play it.

Something similar happened with Essentials: I heard about it, was interested and I remained... let's say "hopefully optimistic." Not expecting it to be great, but not expecting it to be bad, either. Then I got a hold of one of the books and was still disappointed.

Which is a shame, really. The last thing I want is to become one of those "The new edition is TERRIBLE!" kinds of fans that decry every new addition to the franchise. But I started with 2e, which I liked, though some of the rules give me a headache to this day. While playing 2e, I discovered 3.5 (yeah, I skipped 3.0, funny how that worked out) and loved it even more than 2e, though I was disappointed by power imbalances between the classes. Then 4e comes out and I was pretty much in love from the moment I picked up the PHB1 and I started getting my collection together.

...So in essence: I'm waiting for the actual release of 5e before I pass my final judgment, but I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to move on... Of course, no one should have to move on. I still like 2e and 3.5, even though 4e is my favorite system these days. I'm just trying to keep an open mind, because I think everyone should keep an open mind.

I apologize, that turned into a rant, didn't it?



You can get as sick as you want or stick your head in the sand- 4th is dead. There will no longer be any releases from Wizards for 4th. I don't need for you to point out stupid obvious statements- of course people are still going to play 4th and it will live on. However, to cater to your sensitive frame of mind- 4th is dead as far as releases are concerned.

4th is DEAD

No- sadly 4th is dead.


I am so sick and tired of hearing that phrase. The system is not 'dead' simply because the company isn't putting out any new material. It's only dead if it's no longer played.



Here is what makes a system "dead" to me.  A new player shows up to the games shop because they heard about our meetup group.  They ask a few questions, get interested in our game, and eventually make the decision to engage in the wonderful hobby of tabletop rpgs.  

And then they ask where they can purchase their own books.  If I can point to a spot in the games store that sells the books we are using, that system is still alive.  If I can direct them to a book store, or point them to amazon.com, and they can get their new books there, the system is still alive. 

If they have to resort to buying used books... If they have to pay 3x the retail value on ebay... If they have to settle for pirated copies of pdfs...

The system is dead.  Dead doesn't mean unplayable.  But it does mean that it is more difficult for me to introduce new people to the game.  For instance, Star Wars Saga Edition is a dead game.  It is a wonderful system, and the books published for it are so comprehensive that many people regard it as the best example of a "complete" game system.  However, a local gm is thinking about running a star wars game soon, and he's planning on using the fantasy flight beta rules.  Because our local game store has those in stock.   
Kavannah you are absolutely right.  Sure, the system will continue to be playable.  But there will be no new content and no easy way to buy the previous material.  My local game shop is already experiencing stalled 4e sales because there is so little new content that no new gamers appear to buy whats left on the shelves.  Its really unfortunate.  I am definately a 4e fan.  I am not saying it is flawless, but I really enjoyed it.  Its the first system I personally have bought all the books for and run a complete campaign as a DM.


That being said though, if you are willing to put in the time to replace monsters/NPC's you should be able to use any old or new content from Next or the older systems.  All that you really have to replace is the monsters.  Most "mechanics" differences are easily fixed on the fly.  Treasure as well.  There are plenty of unofficail programs for random treasure generation.  I dont know, maybe I am unrealistic but its possible.  The problem is, as you said Kavannah, new players dont wont to convert new/old content.  They want content relevent to the system they are playing.


And as many others have pointed out, with Hasbro now owning DnD...what are the chances that they want new editions every 5-7 years??  Then what?  Are we supposed to buy $400+ worth of core rule books every 5-7 years?  Seriously!  How many times can they expect me to buy a Forgotten Realms campaign guide for 5e, 6e and onward?  Sigh...what a mess!


Heres something they could do, but never will.  Make some sort of program like the Adventure Tools Monster builder that cross references monsters by level.  I know this would be a rather large piece of software, but if they are going to continue to re-release previous AD&D/3.5 stuff they should consider it.  Looking at a AD&D level 1 Zombie?  Here is the 3.5/4e/Next equivilant.  Something like that.  I am not saying it would be easy or perfect, but it must be somewhat possible?  Maybe not...I dont really know much about how AD&D rules work.  Its possible for 3.5 to 4e, I have done it myself.  But its alot of work looking up one monster at a time.


         


And as many others have pointed out, with Hasbro now owning DnD...what are the chances that they want new editions every 5-7 years??  Then what?  Are we supposed to buy $400+ worth of core rule books every 5-7 years?  Seriously!  How many times can they expect me to buy a Forgotten Realms campaign guide for 5e, 6e and onward?  Sigh...what a mess! 



The sad part is that Mearls and Co are claiming that D&D Next will be around to stay for a very, very long time. They have little credibility when making this statement-especially since not only did they kill 4th edition, they are no longer producing 4th edition material even when D&D Next isn't due until August of 2014.

Add insult to injury- Mearls and Co seem more interested in releasing stuff for every edition but 4th! Reprints of 1E, 3.5, soon 2E, etc...

 Why can't they release a deluxe 4th edition Player's Handbook 2, Monster Manual 2 and Dungeon Master's Guide 2 with all the errata included (we already have deluxe versions of the first core 3 books)? Throw us a bone here!
The sad part is that Mearls and Co are claiming that D&D Next will be around to stay for a very, very long time

Claiming that he wants D&D Next to stay very long is not only right but claiming the opposite would hurt sales and wouldn't be smart. You think 4E would have sell as much if they'd said right after 3.5 that 4E would run 4 years only ? Personally i don't.

Why can't they release a deluxe 4th edition Player's Handbook 2, Monster Manual 2 and Dungeon Master's Guide 2 with all the errata included (we already have deluxe versions of the first core 3 books)?

While they certainly can, the reason they don't is probably because it wouldn't be enought profitable for them to do so. Book2's don't sell as much as corebook apparently and book sales drop even further after announcing a new edition i am sure. Selling older out-of-print books on the other hand fullfill a different demand, that people asked for years. How profitable it is i don't know, but i can understand why they are doing it at this moment.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

And as many others have pointed out, with Hasbro now owning DnD...what are the chances that they want new editions every 5-7 years??  Then what?  Are we supposed to buy $400+ worth of core rule books every 5-7 years?  Seriously!  How many times can they expect me to buy a Forgotten Realms campaign guide for 5e, 6e and onward?  Sigh...what a mess!

Well, the $$$ part of it isn't that bad actually. Spending $500 on D&D sourcebooks every 5 years is less than $10 a month. As far as hobbies go, that's rather on the cheap side.

The second issue is what's more serious "expect me to buy a Forgotten Realms campaign guide for 5e, 6e and onward". If these guides are too similiar it's not a matter that it isn't that expensive to buy them all, it's a matter of why buy them all when there is nohting substantially different between them.

The sad part is that Mearls and Co are claiming that D&D Next will be around to stay for a very, very long time. They have little credibility when making this statement

They have little credibility because they are ultimatively not the ones to decide that issue. They have to do a new edition when they are told to do so and if they won't they can leave and someone else will do the new edition. Easy as that.

And as product managers they are expected to do nothing to hurt the sales of their product line. Even if they would already know that Next is only scheduled for 4 years, they would be contractually obliged not to tell us since this would hurt sales of Next




As far as 4e support after the release of Next goes, the best we can realistically expect is them to continue the keep the character builder and compendium online as they are at this point in time without anymore doing updates or new stuff added.




Thanks for the replies...


    I did not even think of losing character builder, that is a major factor in me paying the subscription to D&D insider, the horror!!!  We switched from rolemaster/harp  to 4th ed because my kids now play and rolemaster/harp character creation is too  hard for them..the character builder fit in nicely.."here kids point and click for your character creation"

So what i am getting from these replies is that I need to scoop up all the online material I can because around a year from now or less , the 4th edition well is going to dry up....
 
Thanks

Ron
Thanks for the replies...


    I did not even think of losing character builder, that is a major factor in me paying the subscription to D&D insider, the horror!!!  We switched from rolemaster/harp  to 4th ed because my kids now play and rolemaster/harp character creation is too  hard for them..the character builder fit in nicely.."here kids point and click for your character creation"

So what i am getting from these replies is that I need to scoop up all the online material I can because around a year from now or less , the 4th edition well is going to dry up....
 
Thanks

Ron

Certainly once DDN is released there isn't likely to be ANY more active support for 4e, Dungeon and Dragon will dump all support for it. Whether or not the 4e tools will remain is unknown. At this point I kind of doubt it. WotC has shown such utter disinterest in fans of 4e that it is becoming hard to imagine they will think it is even worth the minimal effort, or that they won't take the opportunity to try to just blot out the existence of 4e.

I think that's basically the plan at this point is to bury 4e like it never existed at all. They know every edition brings fragmentation, so what's the option? KILL IT HARD. Pretend it never existed, burn down all support for it, ever reference to it, ditch every bit of remaining inventory, and resist any attempt to keep it alive. Releasing a 1e or a 3e reprint OTOH doesn't matter, whoever is still playing those editions is still playing them LONG after they stopped being supported. Tossing out a few reprints isn't going to change that landscape. 4e reprints or etc? Forget it, the people buying a 1e reprint will probably buy DDN, people buying 4e products are doing so EXACTLY because they don't want to buy a DDN product. It is 100% cannibalization.

I mean, Mearls once stated he thought that 4e support would continue in DDI, but that was before we got a DDN that utterly ignores what 4e fans wanted and quit releasing new 4e material a year early.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
The sad part is that Mearls and Co are claiming that D&D Next will be around to stay for a very, very long time

Claiming that he wants D&D Next to stay very long is not only right but claiming the opposite would hurt sales and wouldn't be smart. You think 4E would have sell as much if they'd said right after 3.5 that 4E would run 4 years only ? Personally i don't.

Why can't they release a deluxe 4th edition Player's Handbook 2, Monster Manual 2 and Dungeon Master's Guide 2 with all the errata included (we already have deluxe versions of the first core 3 books)?

While they certainly can, the reason they don't is probably because it wouldn't be enought profitable for them to do so. Book2's don't sell as much as corebook apparently and book sales drop even further after announcing a new edition i am sure. Selling older out-of-print books on the other hand fullfill a different demand, that people asked for years. How profitable it is i don't know, but i can understand why they are doing it at this moment.




I don't know- the 3.5 reprints have done pretty awful in terms of sales.  They are even working on doing a rules and spells compendium for 3.5- ugh.  Can't imagine that 4th would do any worse than the 3.5 reprints have so far.

I get the smartness behind saying 5th will be around- my point is that they have little credibility saying so. With both PF and 4th why do we really need another bloated core system like Next? 
Salla. If Hasboro has unrealistic sales numbers for Rthe and 4 E could not meet these requirements. How is 5 E gonna meet em. This tells me that after a few years 5 e will be another short lived edition
"We're not calling it 5e because that would mean admiting to a 4th edition."
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Stuff I Heard Mike Say (subject to change): Multiclassing will be different than in 3.5! That's important. There is no level cap; classes advance ala 3.5 epic levels after a set level. Mundane (AKA fighter and co) encounter and daily powers will probably not be in the PHB (for the lack of space), but nor will they be in some obscure book released halfway through the edition.
You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
the 3.5 reprints have done pretty awful in terms of sales.  

I don't know what do you base this on ? Do you have any sales figure to share with us ?

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

It's a shame, they had some intersting 4e ideas that never came out(more Blackguard vices, more Sentinel seasons, etc), and a number of fixes that should've been done.
Has there been any talk of giving 4e the open gaming licsense treatment?


Or what about carrying on 4e as some sort of "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons" line?  


And as many others have pointed out, with Hasbro now owning DnD...what are the chances that they want new editions every 5-7 years??  Then what?  Are we supposed to buy $400+ worth of core rule books every 5-7 years?  Seriously!  How many times can they expect me to buy a Forgotten Realms campaign guide for 5e, 6e and onward?  Sigh...what a mess! 



The sad part is that Mearls and Co are claiming that D&D Next will be around to stay for a very, very long time. They have little credibility when making this statement-especially since not only did they kill 4th edition, they are no longer producing 4th edition material even when D&D Next isn't due until August of 2014.

Add insult to injury- Mearls and Co seem more interested in releasing stuff for every edition but 4th! Reprints of 1E, 3.5, soon 2E, etc...

 Why can't they release a deluxe 4th edition Player's Handbook 2, Monster Manual 2 and Dungeon Master's Guide 2 with all the errata included (we already have deluxe versions of the first core 3 books)? Throw us a bone here!



Hunterian7, I know that you already know this, but in the interest of those that may be less familiar with the products it should be noted that those deluxe edition 4e books came out very early on. They don't contain nearly all of the errata that has been released for the Core 3 (particularly the PHB).


Salla. If Hasboro has unrealistic sales numbers for Rthe and 4 E could not meet these requirements. How is 5 E gonna meet em. This tells me that after a few years 5 e will be another short lived edition



And quite possibly the last edition for a while.

Has there been any talk of giving 4e the open gaming licsense treatment?


Or what about carrying on 4e as some sort of "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons" line?  



it's veryy unlikely we'll ever have a 4E OGL, for fear of another Paizo/pathfinder situation.
The spin-off edition is also unlikely as that would be seen as a competitor to the main brand in what is already a small market.
A realistic option could be dual-support for 5e and 4e in all future material, rulebooks aside, by including stats for both systems. But I have little hope even that will happen.
A silver lining, possibly:

In the Editorial intro to Dungeon #209, Chris Perkins has this to say:

"So what’s in store for 2013? Well, for starters, we plan to continue supporting 4th Edition. We have orcs invading an elven woodland sanctuary, a daring rescue mission set in the Dalelands, a splendid adventure for pixie characters, a thrilling race inspired by the movie The Cannonball Run (with owlbears!), a curse that has turned an entire village black and white, a dangerous descent into a raging volcano . . ."


It may be 4e support only for subscribers, but isn't that what I'm paying for? I tend to take Chris at his word.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Salla. If Hasboro has unrealistic sales numbers for Rthe and 4 E could not meet these requirements. How is 5 E gonna meet em. This tells me that after a few years 5 e will be another short lived edition



That is exactly what I anticipate happening.  I expect 5e will be the last edition of D&D.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
the 3.5 reprints have done pretty awful in terms of sales.  

I don't know what do you base this on ? Do you have any sales figure to share with us ?




Unfortunately it's anecdotal but it is still possible to get an idea based on some observation. But- here's the evidence that I have. I live in two states- Washington (Seattle) and Ohio (Columbus). I visit five gaming stores in these two states and I am on good terms with one the store owners (I run D&D Encounters and Lair Assault). Its a simple matter of asking them how the sales of releases from WotC are doing. Not one single store has sold more than five copies of each type of the 3.5 core books.  In comparison the AD&D books have sold off the hook. Two stores claim that they sold more of the AD&D reprints than they ever did of the 4th core books.

So, if two disparate geographical regions, one in the heartland of WotC, are having poor sales it is safe to assume that overall that the 3.5 reprints are doing poorly.
I have a question about how wotc handles new versions of D&D in relation to the old version...

Will they support 4e rules after the release of the 5th edition? If so how much? Will they release more content?

They've already stopped releasing new 4e books.  DDI continues to have some support for 4e, and there's no logistical reason they couldn't cointinue that level of support indefinitely.  From a business perspective, though, they might consider it a better strategy to end 4e completely, so as to drum up demand for 5e from former 4e fans with nowhere else to go, and to cater to the spite of the "h4ters" who have made Pathfinder such a success.  Unlike 3.5, 4e can be outright suppressed by WotC - it's not open-source, like d20 is, so there can be no Pathfinder style 'clone' of 4e to compete with 5e, and even free on-line 'fan support' could be C&D'd.

But, ultimately, only time will tell.  4e is WotC property, and what they do with it is their decision.

How long is the standard run of a D&D version?

There is no 'standard,' but, in the TSR years, each edition stayed in print 10 years or more, though there were overlaps or outright parallel editions (like AD&D and BECMI).  WotC has had a much shorter cycle time.  3.0 lasted 2 years, 3.5 for 5, and 4e and Essentials each lasted about 2.

But, past performance is no gaurantee, and 5e could go 10 or 20 years - or 2, again - and could be followed by a new edition, have an edition in parallel, or even be the /last/ edition of D&D if Hasbro decides to shelve it.


The reason why I am concerened is because I have dropped well over a grand or more on most of the 4th ed books and soon found out that a 5th edition is in the works.

Yep, that's the same boat fans find themselves in every time there's a rev-roll, and its kinda the point.  Once you have a big enough pile of books for one edition, there's really not a lot to be gained from the next supplement being released.  Market saturation or fatigue or something like that, I suppose.  So, they re-boot the franchise to goose interest, and sales.  Inevitably, some fans get fed up with it each time.


Want to see the best of 4e included in 5e?  Join the Old Guard of 4e.

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

"You want The Tooth?  You can't handle The Tooth!"  - Dahlver-Nar.

"If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly"  - E. Gary Gygax

 

 

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Salla. If Hasboro has unrealistic sales numbers for Rthe and 4 E could not meet these requirements. How is 5 E gonna meet em. This tells me that after a few years 5 e will be another short lived edition



That is exactly what I anticipate happening.  I expect 5e will be the last edition of D&D.



Agreed. After D&D Next is shelved Hasbro will place the brand on its dusty shelves. A generation will pass before they release it as a board game special. I'm pretty confident that no matter how awesome D&D Next can be it will still not unite the fan base and their money. It isn't helping that D&D Next is isolating the 4th fan base by the discontinuation of all 4th products except for DDI.

I don't even think Paizo could even afford to buy the D&D brand from Hasbro. Given how the rules of PF are based on a rules system 12-13 years old I'm not sure I'd want them too.  
Unfortunately it's anecdotal

Anecdots make really poor evidences. Plus, 5 stores is really not enought to establish how good or bad a whole line of book sells so pardon me if i take this with a grain of salt. Wink

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Unfortunately it's anecdotal

Anecdots make really poor evidences. Plus, 5 stores is really not enought to establish how good or bad a whole line of book sells so pardon me if i take this with a grain of salt. 




In this case it can't be quantified with piracy like i usually do to see how popular something is (hence the reason i say menzoberranzan book and ed's forgotten realms book tanked...because people haven't even bothered to pirate those).  Thought most of the 1e reprint are not because people want to play them...they see them more of a collection item more than anything.
Unfortunately it's anecdotal

Anecdots make really poor evidences. Plus, 5 stores is really not enought to establish how good or bad a whole line of book sells so pardon me if i take this with a grain of salt. 




It was only meant to be taken with a grain of salt. However- it is interesting to note that stores in two states thousands of miles apart haven't sold that many. I bet if I started calling stores at random across the country and asked them how well the 3.5 reprints are doing they would say the same. I'd also bet you would disregard that too- so why bother? Based on the fact that you are pointing out a dead obvious statement that anecdotal evidence is poor evidence I think you are not worth debating with...
Unfortunately it's anecdotal

Anecdots make really poor evidences. Plus, 5 stores is really not enought to establish how good or bad a whole line of book sells so pardon me if i take this with a grain of salt. 




In this case it can't be quantified with piracy like i usually do to see how popular something is (hence the reason i say menzoberranzan book and ed's forgotten realms book tanked...because people haven't even bothered to pirate those).  Thought most of the 1e reprint are not because people want to play them...they see them more of a collection item more than anything.



That is a good point.  However, I don't frequent those sites so I have no clue how much of what is being pirated. Let us wait for Plaguescarred to pop in and say 'several sites isn't enough to conjecture if they were popular or not'.  I fancy hm as that one guy who has that obnoxious itch to state the obvious when any conjecture is taking place on sales.

A silver lining, possibly:

Not really. That's the trickle I was expecting. Some adventures in Dungeon coupled with mostly edition neutral stuff and hardly any new 4e crunch in Dragon and that's it.

I can't find the quote but they recently said that there would be no more crunch (aka feats, powers, etc.) unless there would be a pretty good reason as 4e has enough of everything already (thus saying that things like giving a deity-indepent BA to avenger or a combined focus feat for implement/weapon users is not deemed neccessary or important)

 I wouldn't expect the 3.5 reprints to sell very well due to it being very recent and I suspect most 3.5 holdouts are playing Pathfinder. 1st ed reprints are somehting special and they appeal to collectors and grognards. Anyone who is still playing 1st ed after all these years is probably in their 40's and 50s and are close to their peak of earning power. They probably could have charged $50 a book and they would have sold like hot cakes.

 I expect the 3.5 Spell compendium to sell better because one can use that book in Pathfinder. Its probably a safe bet to say that right now PF is more popular than 3.5.

 Dollars to donuts the reprints are also being used as market research. 4th ed is recent and it didn't sell well, any 3.75 game will have to compete with Pathfinder. If WoTC thinks the market wants pre 3rd ed style D&D thats the direction D&DN will move in.

 Perosnally I want Star Wars Saga and 4th ed to get drunk and have a fling and create something like a d20 version of 2nd ed but with cleaned up rules powers as options for those who want them. Basically something that feels like D&D, is simple to run and you can have a character that can fit on a single page of paper (4th ed kind of failed here, 5 page character sheets). Al also want the best parts of d20 and 4th ed in there though as well.

 The best 4th ed can hope for is they keep DDI up fora yearor two after D&DN launches. IIRC back in the day they published the 1st ed PHB after 2nd ed launched presumably to smooth the transition and they were compatable enough.

Sick of these short ediiton cycles anyway. 3 years for 3.0, 5 years for 3.5, 2-3 years for 4th ed. D&DN being a short ediiton cycle will result in an I'm done with WoTC D&D and will pick 2nd ed or PF or something and stick with it. 13th age is also getting alot of positive vibe about it so thats another option.



 
Perosnally I want Star Wars Saga and 4th ed to get drunk and have a fling and create something like a d20 version of 2nd ed but with cleaned up rules powers as options for those who want them. Basically something that feels like D&D, is simple to run and you can have a character that can fit on a single page of paper (4th ed kind of failed here, 5 page character sheets). Al also want the best parts of d20 and 4th ed in there though as well.

Rum, whiskey or beer? Because I can help out with two of those.

I love 4e to death, but I still see appeal in the way 3e handles things. The problem, for me at least, is how the math falls apart. In both of them. But 4e is easier to rules patch than 3e/3.5/even Pathfinder. I love 4e because it makes every class playable.

I haven't looked over too much material for Next, but the concensus seems to be that it's moving back towards the problems of 3e: Namely, non-casters are just there to fill space and take hits.

Given, I've stayed out of the Next boards after a raging debate over weapon names. Because, in all honesty, if that's the sort of people that will be part of the play testing... "I'm going to get completely hung up over a flavor text detail, rather than actually care about the crunch using non-flawed math."

My first D&D campaign was 2e, which was right around the time 3.5 came out and I picked up the PHB. I showed my DM, who loved it on sight, especially Feats, though the group still played and enjoyed 2e. It made me think that the whole edition wars concept was a myth. Then I discovered the internet. Yeah... The 4e/Next split is going to be as bad as the 3.5/4e split and the 3e/2e split...

Sick of these short ediiton cycles anyway. 3 years for 3.0, 5 years for 3.5, 2-3 years for 4th ed. D&DN being a short ediiton cycle will result in an I'm done with WoTC D&D and will pick 2nd ed or PF or something and stick with it. 13th age is also getting alot of positive vibe about it so thats another option.


I know the feeling. I try to maintain a optimistic outlook, but Essentials was a disappointment for me and Next is already shaping up to be disappointing. I'm waiting until the finalized version comes out to pass judgment, but I'm expected disappointment again. Which is pretty bad, considering I'm apparently in the minority that likes large portions of both 4e and 3.5.

I won't hold it against anyone that likes Next. They have the right to their opinions, of course, the same as how the 3e fans, 2e fans and 4e fans all have the right to their opinions. But I have already lost most of my desire to play Next.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Unfortunately it's anecdotal

Anecdots make really poor evidences. Plus, 5 stores is really not enought to establish how good or bad a whole line of book sells so pardon me if i take this with a grain of salt. 




Also if I may add my own two cents to this dicussion I have a account on rpgstack exchange a Q&A site for RPG's and one of it's features is that you can see how manny questions are asked for different systems:
4E: 1251
3.5: 487
Pathfinder: 414

Yes 4E is crushing Pathfinder on this front, even 3.5 combined with Pathfinder.
Yes 3.5 is still ahead despite it being a dead edition.
Also if I may add my own two cents to this dicussion I have a account on rpgstack exchange a Q&A site for RPG's and one of it's features is that you can see how manny questions are asked for different systems:
4E: 1251
3.5: 487
Pathfinder: 414

Yes 4E is crushing Pathfinder on this front, even 3.5 combined with Pathfinder.
Yes 3.5 is still ahead despite it being a dead edition.


More context is required. What is the nature of those questions?

For example, are they asking for rules clarifications? Are they asking why the books are hard to find? Which books are must haves? Or are they stupid crap like "lol dis ediiton sux"? And yes, I have heard that last question asked. It was painful to read. I felt a desire to purchase an English textbook and throw it at the offending party's face.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Also if I may add my own two cents to this dicussion I have a account on rpgstack exchange a Q&A site for RPG's and one of it's features is that you can see how manny questions are asked for different systems:
4E: 1251
3.5: 487
Pathfinder: 414

Yes 4E is crushing Pathfinder on this front, even 3.5 combined with Pathfinder.
Yes 3.5 is still ahead despite it being a dead edition.


More context is required. What is the nature of those questions?

For example, are they asking for rules clarifications? Are they asking why the books are hard to find? Which books are must haves? Or are they stupid crap like "lol dis ediiton sux"? And yes, I have heard that last question asked. It was painful to read. I felt a desire to purchase an English textbook and throw it at the offending party's face.



Yes to the first 3.

Question which are just flamebait for edition wars are deleted/closed so I don't know if they count towards the cap.

The primary rule is that the question has to be answerable and not very generic.

For example this question about how manny times a effect triggers of a 4E power? Very easy to answer.
A question "What is the best RPG ever?" Would be closed as either impossible to answer or closed as too generic.
If you rephrase the question as "I want to run a game in which all the players are spellcasters of some sort what is the best RPG for this?" Acceptable
A question "Where to find Heroes of Shadows at a good price?" Acceptable.
A question regarding published fluuf? Also allowed.

Also if I may add my own two cents to this dicussion I have a account on rpgstack exchange a Q&A site for RPG's and one of it's features is that you can see how manny questions are asked for different systems:
4E: 1251

But how many of those are people asking "what's the difference between 4e and Essentials?"

Want to see the best of 4e included in 5e?  Join the Old Guard of 4e.

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

"You want The Tooth?  You can't handle The Tooth!"  - Dahlver-Nar.

"If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly"  - E. Gary Gygax

 

 

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