Spell damage gets no bonuses?

I was just wondering why spell damage got no bonus.  I rolled a 1 for damage and had to attack a kobold twice.  It just seems kind of unbalanced when compared to the melee classes getting their Str bonus to damage rolls.
It's because when you have 9th level spells, you'll be doing 10s of dice in damage, hitting multiple targets and have ways to augment it even further. Casters have always started out weak and grew strong, while melee classes are good from 1 to 20, but never as powerful as a high level wizard.
Casters have always started out weak and grew strong, while melee classes are good from 1 to 20, but never as powerful as a high level wizard.



The one does not balance the other. Never has, never will.

To the OP, this is a good question. In the earlier packets, casters added their primary ability score to their spell damage. I have no idea why they removed that.
There are a few threads on this topic in the Playest Packet Discussion forum.  The short of it is that wizards just deal lousy damage overall, especially in comparison to fighters.

Here's a comparison of their at-will damage.  Obviously, letting the wizard add +3 or +5 to that would go some small way toward putting them on more even footing:
Show
Level 1:    Wizard deals 1d10 (avg 06), Fighter deals 1d8+1d6+4 (avg 12)
Level 7:    Wizard deals 2d10 (avg 11), Fighter deals 1d8+4d6+9 (avg 27)
Level 11:  Wizard deals 3d10 (avg 17), Fighter deals 1d8+6d6+15 (avg 41)
Level 16:  Wizard deals 4d10 (avg 22), Fighter deals 1d8+6d6+20 (avg 46)


Even meteor swarm, the single huge spell that is supposed to demonstrate the awesome might of a wizard's destructive capability, only averages 42 damage (since overlapping area of effect does not double or triple the damage dealt).  That's one damage less than a level 11 fighter can deal with a non-magical greatsword, and the wizard doesn't even get it until level 17!

The only spell that can outdamage the Fighter's at-will is disintegrate (16d6, average 56), and that spell has the unfortunate side effect of depriving the party of any loot the target may possess.

The metagame is not the game.

Casters have always started out weak and grew strong, while melee classes are good from 1 to 20, but never as powerful as a high level wizard.



The one does not balance the other. Never has, never will.

To the OP, this is a good question. In the earlier packets, casters added their primary ability score to their spell damage. I have no idea why they removed that.



Because "OMG!  TEH WIZZZARD DOES MOAR DAMAGE THAN MY SWORD!"

It's not about balance now.  It's about WotC catering to the playtesters who bother to reply to the questionaire or who post comments about how their fighter is struggling to keep up with the Wizard's damage.

Well, now they will start seeing posts about how terrible magic users are and we'll see what they do to make them no longer suck.  I'm going to bet they reduce weapon damage die overall.   
As a DM, it was just difficult to see a wizard hit a kobold and not kill it.  That was the first clue that let my party know they weren't actually minions.  They are all 4e veterans, and just though that every kobold they had killed up to that point was just a minion.  They literally were surprised when the wizard hit one and it didn't die.

There is pretty much no way to avoid that kind of metagaming when you have a group who played 4e.  

One solution I can think of is to add in a feat that adds 1/2 your Int bonus to cantrips.  You could get a lot of mileage out of that in the first ten levels or so.
I was just wondering why spell damage got no bonus.  I rolled a 1 for damage and had to attack a kobold twice.  It just seems kind of unbalanced when compared to the melee classes getting their Str bonus to damage rolls.

IMO, they should have cantrips get the casting stat bonus to damage. That's all it'd take to make me happy. NO character should use up there action and only deal 1 hp damage unless they REALLY suck at the action they are taking.

1) A wizard should NEVER be dealing more single target damage than a fighter. At least, not with spells that can hit scores of targets. And, they really should not be able to compete with a fighter in terms of single target damage over the course of a day either.

2) At higher levels a wizard's damage is fine. It is where it should be.

3) Wizards, unfortunately, can deal more single target damage than a fighter with the first 11-12 rounds of the day. Magic missile deals more than what a fighter can average (once you add miss chance into the statistical calculations). Magic missile is overpowered as a result. Though, only slightly. I wouldn't want to see its damage reduced. I just want to see it become a little more situational... any cover should block magic missile, whether the cover is magical or not.

4) Low level wizards need help. Cantrips should let you add your Int bonus as a damage modifier.  

i was ok with the previous playtest edging on
single target damage roll added a bonus
AOE or multiple damage rolls was no attack bonus


that way your single target spells can feel more like weapons

I agree that rather then intelligently looking at the mechanics that Wizards is trying to win over the current loudest group of nay sayers.

This is a huge concern of mine. I don't know how people get that Wizards are over powered. People point to a few very high level spells that have massive area of effects or a select few spells that can result in instant death or incapaciation as game changing spells but they are very conditional and limited in their effectiveness. I can cast one spell each of 6th through 9th level spells off of the basic chart, two if I go Scholarly Wizard. There are things such as magic resistance / spell resistance and saving throws that come into account. You cast your one big chance spell and hope that you make your concentration roll or that some way or another they don't get a save or thwart you spell with a resistance of some kind.

I hardly think Magic Missile is that over powered. "Effect: You create two darts of magical force. For each dart, choose a creature within 100 feet of you. The target takes 1d4+2 force damage." If you want to do more damage you have a sacrifice a higher level spell to lose to cast it at additoinal potency. And lastly it is limited in the number of times it can be used.

The cantrips at low levels are better then many people think, but I m not ready to say over powered. Chill Touch for example does 1d10 damage and they can't heal until the start of the caster's next turn. Ray of Frost does 1d10 damage and slows movement speed by 10. Of course you have to hit and you risk doing 1 point of damage which can seriously blow but you can do this with regularity.

They also are more easily affected by the very spells that people complain about. How is a Wizard going to survive first level when a Sleep spell's success is determined by Hit Points? You don't get a save, you have the lowest hit points in many cases so fall asleep first and then you risk coup de grace. The same can be said for many other spells, like Power Word Spells etc, they are based off of hit points.

Combat classes are far more consistent. They fail, no big deal I get the same attack next round. You hit me? No big deal I will hit you back and I have more hit points and don't have to make a concentration check. Yes they lack the flare of a wizard but they are not useless, just played differently.
1) A wizard should NEVER be dealing more single target damage than a fighter. At least, not with spells that can hit scores of targets. And, they really should not be able to compete with a fighter in terms of single target damage over the course of a day either.

A single target daily power really, really should beat out a single target at-will attack.  izard's cantrips shouldn't match, but their top slot single target spells absolutly should.


Don't forget, the fighter's also has much better HP/armor/parry.


2) At higher levels a wizard's damage is fine. It is where it should be.

Disagree.  Single target damage is too weak.

Though if they don't take the singe target spells, and instead focus on effects, or AOE's, they are fine.

3) Wizards, unfortunately, can deal more single target damage than a fighter with the first 11-12 rounds of the day. Magic missile deals more than what a fighter can average (once you add miss chance into the statistical calculations). Magic missile is overpowered as a result. Though, only slightly. I wouldn't want to see its damage reduced. I just want to see it become a little more situational... any cover should block magic missile, whether the cover is magical or not.

Umm...  Not seeing it.

The wizard can tie the fighter 3-4 rounds a day.  Then looses everything else.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
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Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
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Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.