Grixis control deck help

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Creatures that I think are worth while to play are:

[C]desecration demon[/c]
[C]Niv-mizzet, dracogenius[/c]
[C]Olivia voldaren[/c]
[C]snapcaster mage[/c]
[C]thundermaw hellkite[/c]

Other than that what are the cards I should be using?
Well, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is a planeswalker that's in Grixis
Yes, I think one is a good number.
I think one is enough.
What do you guys think the optimal build would be for grixis is?
guy...the idea is that this is a deck HELP forum. You post a decklist, and we try to help. We don't make the list FOR you.

You could at least do the legwork and find what grixis things are being played right now.  
Im looking for help obviously. The grixis stuff being played right now doesn't work against the meta in my opinion. It needs help. So what Im trying to do is brainstorm different ideas and theories and test them out. You sir are not helping.
In my opinion, Grixis needs to be leaning on discard as much as it can in this meta. It's the only thing proven to 1-for-1 Tusk outside of playing your own. Also, Appetite is fairly strong against Reanimator builds. Snapcaster and Augur are good choices for CA, and help you not get blown out by Aggro. I've yet to find a good finisher, but Hellkite is a nice option. Dimir will really help this deck as far as mana goes. It's hard getting the mana right when you're so relient on early discard (and don't have the other Black shockland).

Rakdos Keyrune is pretty strong, as is Rakdos's Return. You need some type of sweeper available as well, but Temblor is just meh.
 

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Im looking for help obviously. The grixis stuff being played right now doesn't work against the meta in my opinion. It needs help. So what Im trying to do is brainstorm different ideas and theories and test them out. You sir are not helping.



I understand you need help. but there's a difference between providing a list you want help with, and giving us a list of 5 cards and asking others for opinions on an optimal build.





In more on topic discussion, I'd probably test something like:


2 snapcaster mage
2 evil twin
2 niv-mizzet, dracogenius

3 duress
2 Appetite for brains 
2 victem of the night
1 ultimate price
4 pillar of flame
2 dreadbore
3 mizzium mortars
4 rakdos keyrune
1 nicol bolas, planeswalker
4 think twice
3 jace, architect of thought


25 lands 
bunch of dual lands, and drownyard


Pillars mained vs aggro. Could probably find room for more threats or counters, but whatever.



EDIT: wrong numbers initially.



If you don't like that, you can test either of these builds:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTE4uzWi5U0

wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?...



There. Did the legwork for you. 
Thanks for the help. They are not what Im looking for though.
I've been trying to come up with a good Grixis list but its just not possible until Gatecrash releases. The mana base will be better, but the spells still have to be there. Not having a Dimir version of Sphinx's Revelation hurts real bad. Right now you have to use Izzet base with some black and there are no good sweepers for Izzet colors. Mutilate can be effective once Watery Grave hits. Dimir splash red is going to be the best way to build Grixis. I am hoping Gatecrash brings the goods.
I've been trying to come up with a good Grixis list but its just not possible until Gatecrash releases. The mana base will be better, but the spells still have to be there. Not having a Dimir version of Sphinx's Revelation hurts real bad. Right now you have to use Izzet base with some black and there are no good sweepers for Izzet colors. Mutilate can be effective once Watery Grave hits. Dimir splash red is going to be the best way to build Grixis. I am hoping Gatecrash brings the goods.




I doubt mutilate will ever work in grixis. To make it work we would need to run...what, 14 or 15 swamps? even counting the duals, that's a massive chunk of the manabase tied up with basic swamps. And unless we can compensate by making the deck primarily black, it won't work.


I've been running b/r with 14 swamps and two liliana's of the veil, and mutilates are pretty inconsistant for me. Rarely above -2/-2. It feels like it should be working more often, but that's how it is. And if it's inconsistent in 2 color, I don't see things getting any better in 3 color. 
there isn't a good grixis deck because grixis isn't able to do anything good against the top decks in the format.  it really has nothing going for it.


blue is a really bad color right now.... i hate to admit that, but it is.  

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