Phaerimm, The Most Broken Sorcerer!

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Take a look on page 187 to 189 from Lost Empires of Faerun.

Play with a Hatchling Phaerimm, your ECL is 3 (1 HD/LA +2). You cast as Sorcerer 1, what means you can get 9th spells at level 20 (+17 sorcerer levels or some PrC fullcaster), what means you will end up with 1 racial HD/17 spellcaster levels/LA +2 casting as Sorcerer 18.

Well, you guys may ask what's special about that, and that's simple:

You cast your spells as SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES.

I wonder casting Wish without XP cost. This thing is like Dweomerkeeper, but with Spell-Like instead Supernatural (that's bad) and it doesn't have a limit of 4 spell-like/supernatural spells per day like Dweomerkeeper (that's VERY VERY GOOD).

The advantage of playing a Phaerimm is to be a Dweomerkeeper on steroids, and the problem is casting as Sorcerer instead of Wizard (which would be able to learn almost every arcane spell).
And don't forget the LA buyoff rules.
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
And don't forget the LA buyoff rules.



I don't like to use LA buyoff rule, despite its benefit :3

Old news. Really old news. Like, five minutes after the book came out old news.



Old but gold :P

Also, pro tip: When you're playing at that kind of optimization, you play a wizard, and have a bunch of Phaerimm Simulacra.



Indeed, and more:

Be a Red Wizard + Dweomerkeeper to avoid Material and XP cost of Simulacrum, and to cast Simulacrum with caster level 40, which mean you can duplicate any creature of 80 HD but its HD are halved, so you get Revered Elders Phaerimms with 40 HD/40 sorcerer casting levels (no, Phaerimms doesn't have HD advancement limit if someone ask).
No. Just old.



Why?

Yeah, no. The single most basic problem with that is that you don't need all that fluff. It can be done at level five without any effort.



PunPun? lol
I would generally assume that the DM isn't running his game at kiddy grade where the enemies have their brains turned off; my usual response to players asking about such things is to ask them if they're happy for their enemies to have access to the same trick.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
It was mentioned nearly as fast as the book came out, then no one touched it (probably because it took all the challenge away). I think the Phaerimm were used in a couple challenges, but none immediately spring to mind.

EDIT: Another good example of this kind of thing is the Shaedling in the MM5. Tsuyoshikentsu found it and quickly found that it could create anything (up to and including artifacts) that was under 15 pounds, despite having a reasonably low ECL. This is ludicrously overpowered - and no one ever touched them again.

Speaking of, Vincent, I'm not sure if you were around earlier (your join date suggests otherwise but I seem to recall your name from a long time ago...), but the Omniscificer was a response to Pun-Pun (and probably about the point when everyone learned that anything that anyone can do, Pun-Pun can also do - but it was still a learning experience), and the Silly Literalist was an older response to a "100^10 Challenge" (which was to get at least +100 to ten specific areas - this obviously predates Pun-Pun. The author, LordOfProcrastination, added guidelines, which included "Q: Do I have to have exactly +100 to these areas to qualify? A: No you don't, you silly literalist." The Silly Literalist was naturally an entry to follow which actually managed to get exactly +100 to all the required areas, using some creative abilities along the way.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Because it's really old. There's nothing new about it. There's nothing interesting about it. Phaerimms are just one of the ways to ignore components.

The Omnicificer was interesting, the Silly Literalist still is interesting, but, really, there's just nothing interesting here.



Finding something interesting or not is a matter of perspective, so if you want to post in this topic you could spare others from your opinion and focus on the topic proposal itself.

Or you could just don't post here if in your opinion/perspective it's an old and not interesting idea.

It is like you just post this kind of comments to flood and flame.

Charm Monster. With a bit of work, you could just use Diplomacy, but Charming the mirror mephits is easier.



Awful choice, Mirror Mephits casts Simulacrum with CL 8th. I hope you can do better than that.
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Please remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner. 
I would generally assume that the DM isn't running his game at kiddy grade where the enemies have their brains turned off; my usual response to players asking about such things is to ask them if they're happy for their enemies to have access to the same trick.



I totally agree with you, and if my DM ask that to me i would say YES! MWUAHAHAHA, just kidding.

It was mentioned nearly as fast as the book came out, then no one touched it (probably because it took all the challenge away). I think the Phaerimm were used in a couple challenges, but none immediately spring to mind.

EDIT: Another good example of this kind of thing is the Shaedling in the MM5. Tsuyoshikentsu found it and quickly found that it could create anything (up to and including artifacts) that was under 15 pounds, despite having a reasonably low ECL. This is ludicrously overpowered - and no one ever touched them again.

Speaking of, Vincent, I'm not sure if you were around earlier (your join date suggests otherwise but I seem to recall your name from a long time ago...), but the Omniscificer was a response to Pun-Pun (and probably about the point when everyone learned that anything that anyone can do, Pun-Pun can also do - but it was still a learning experience), and the Silly Literalist was an older response to a "100^10 Challenge" (which was to get at least +100 to ten specific areas - this obviously predates Pun-Pun. The author, LordOfProcrastination, added guidelines, which included "Q: Do I have to have exactly +100 to these areas to qualify? A: No you don't, you silly literalist." The Silly Literalist was naturally an entry to follow which actually managed to get exactly +100 to all the required areas, using some creative abilities along the way.)



I am around this forum since many years ago, but if you saw some Vincent then it wasn't me since that's the first account i registered here (after many years i decided to participate lol).

And thanks for the Shaedling tip, it looks promising...

Because it's really old. There's nothing new about it. There's nothing interesting about it. Phaerimms are just one of the ways to ignore components.

The Omnicificer was interesting, the Silly Literalist still is interesting, but, really, there's just nothing interesting here.



Finding something interesting or not is a matter of perspective, so if you want to post in this topic you could spare others from your opinion and focus on the topic proposal itself.

Or you could just don't post here if in your opinion/perspective it's an old and not interesting idea.

It is like you just post this kind of comments to flood and flame.

So you simply posted this to show off you found something everyone else knows about? Okay. See, that's the kind of thing that you should specify in the OP. If you'd said that, I'd not have bothered. My mistake, giving you the benefit of the doubt.



No, i didn't make this topic to simply show off something i found, i did this because i made a search about "Phaerimm" in this forum and i found almost nothing, even everybody knowing this it is still almost untouched in matter of optimizing.

Charm Monster. With a bit of work, you could just use Diplomacy, but Charming the mirror mephits is easier.

 Awful choice, Mirror Mephits casts Simulacrum with CL 8th. I hope you can do better than that.

Oh really?



There is something wrong here, you said you could do the same thing i do with Dweomerkeeper/Red Wizard (14 levels at least: Wizard 4/Cleric 1/Dweomekeeper 4/Red Wizard 5) with only 5 levels, but you get a 8 HD Efreeti for free that makes 3 free Wishes for you, and i get for free a 40 HD/40 sorcerer casting Phaerimm that cast ALL of its spells as spell-like (not only Wish), and it has more than just 3 free Wishes.

And the better part? Before i can get to 14th level i can learn Charm Monster and do the same trick as you.
Oh man, you are contradictory, you say Dweomerkeeper is a good PrC, but say Phaerimm is garbage. Phaerimm does the same as Dweomerkeeper, but MUCH more than 4 times per day, its only "problem" is casting as Sorcerer, but even this is not totally a problem (Arcane Spellsurge, Fusion, Greater Fusion...).

And i want to optimize Phaerimm, if you ridiculously think it is garbage, so get out and stop posting this, you are just saying sh*t when you say there is nothing to optimize, this forum was MADE for this purpose, to optimize things, so THERE IS *****ng things to optimize and i want to optimize this, if you don't wanna help just get out, and try to be less contradictory (or slow if you really didn't realized that Phaerimm is better than Dweomerkeeper at its purpose).

And i've read the Wish spell, the problem is that you lied, you said you would do the same that i did with a few levels, but you just did something else inferior.
Translation: "I have no idea why Sorcerers suck. Or what they do well. Or why Dweomerkeepers are good."



4 Supernatural Spells vs All spells a Sorcerer 40 can cast as Spell-Like.

Translation: "Rage. Also, I really don't get this "optimizing" thing."

Seriously, brah. The only thing that this will do would be a standard sorcerer with some sort of crappy gimmick, and without any of the actually good sorcerer toys, the ones that need Dragonblooded. So, basically, the only real way to optimize it either involves abusing Leadership with a Psion cohort, or just droppiing Phaerimm.



lol the thing has plenty of spell-likes and you still say it's trash lol

But let's pretend you're right, still i want to optimize this. I want to take a bad thing, and try to do the better that is possible with it, even if it's not much.

Translation: "I still have no idea what Wish does."

I suggest rereading the Wish spell again. Pay attention this time. A single wish does everything your build does, only better. With the added benefit of being a wizard, rather than a mediocre sorcerer that thinks it's a wizard.



Lol you want to expend 3 Wishes from Efreeti to cast 8th or lower spells while there are better and more broken things to expend Wish. What a waste.

Phaerimm has more than 6 free Wishes per day and doesn't worry expending them to simulate spells it already can cast, and all of this spells casted with 40th caster level at least lol
Can we please not fight today?  It's the holidays; you know, Peace, Joy, Love for our fellow man, and all that jazz?

CJ, could you please tell me, in your opinion (I say this as others may disagree with you), how does wish work?  I freely admit that I haven't read Wish in a while(I've been playin Pathfinder recently), and would like to have my memory refeshed.  I remember that it is a better form of limited wish, can mimic some spells, give stat boosts, and one or two other things, but what does it do? 
CJ, dood... Your minmax link just led to "badoink.com", which is a mobile porn site. WTF, brosef?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
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