12/31/2012 FTL: "Brace Yourself"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Glad to see I'm not the only one to notice that
Glad to see I'm not the only one to notice that

Ditto. I apparently only ever post on the boards in response to articles when they mention play errors.
*Facepalm*

Sorry about that.  Dumb mistake on my part.  I'd like to say it won't happen again, but let's be honest, I'm nowhere near perfect, and if I keep writing From the Lab as long as I plan to (Read: forever) it's bound to happen a few more times.

Hope you guys enjoyed the article anyway!  Feel free to let me know if you have any other constructive criticisms.
Thanks a lot for putting the playtest sections, it makes the article much more interesting to read. I wonder if it's possible for you to test these concotions against other decks, because it'd provide better results.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Welcome, Mike! Looking forward to lots of Johnniness. I particularly like giving these spur-of-the-moment decks some actual playtesting.

Looks like Illusionist's Bracers are a pretty powerful card in a deck built around them! Like Rings of Brighthearth but without the mana payment. (A deck built around Rings is usually just using it to copy one thing anyway.) 
If I was a judge at the prerelease, I'd carefully write out a flashcard saying "activated abilities are not the same as triggered abilities or static abilities," followed by the definitions of the three things and rules citations. Because something tells me it's going to be a very common problem with this card.
If I was a judge at the prerelease, I'd carefully write out a flashcard saying "activated abilities are not the same as triggered abilities or static abilities," followed by the definitions of the three things and rules citations. Because something tells me it's going to be a very common problem with this card.

Yeah, this. I cringed a little when I read
Illusionist's Bracers essentially doubles the equipped creature's abilities, whatever those might be. If that creature has an ability that deals damage, well, now it's dealing twice as much.

That is not something to say to casual players, at least not without a disclaimer.

Playtest reports are always a welcome sight. I'd prefer them just a little less informal though. I know this isn't a serious tournament report, but as is they can be hard to parse. And using Ponder as a verb is a joke you should make at most once.

Other than that (and it's very little!), it was a fine article. I look forward to read more of you.
I'm sure i would have thought of Aphetto Alchemist eventually, but the first thing I thought of was Liquimetal Coating and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. You'd only need 5 artfacts for lethal.
I'm suprised that after Alchemist, the mono-green deck didn't follow up with its version of the effect: Seeker of Skybreak.
I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, but doesn't Illusionist's Bracers say "if it isn't a mana ability"? And Chameleon Colossus' pump ability is a "mana ability"? So doesn't that mean it doesn't double the pump..?

Correct me if I'm wrong. 
"Mana ability" means it produces mana, like Llanowar Elves, not that it costs mana (plus a couple additional restrictions but those aren't relevant unless you're running a select few cards). Chameleon Colossus will quadruple up on power without a hitch.
"Mana ability" means it produces mana, like Llanowar Elves, not that it costs mana (plus a couple additional restrictions but those aren't relevant unless you're running a select few cards). Chameleon Colossus will quadruple up on power without a hitch.



Oh wow, I think I've been getting a ton of things confused then. Does that mean that I can use Llanowar Elves' effect the moment I summon him? Is his tap effect not affected by summoning sickness? (I'm sorry if this is getting off topic)
"Mana ability" means it produces mana, like Llanowar Elves, not that it costs mana (plus a couple additional restrictions but those aren't relevant unless you're running a select few cards). Chameleon Colossus will quadruple up on power without a hitch.



Oh wow, I think I've been getting a ton of things confused then. Does that mean that I can use Llanowar Elves' effect the moment I summon him? Is his tap effect not affected by summoning sickness? (I'm sorry if this is getting off topic)


Any ability with the sumbol is affected by "summoning sickness". Being (or not being) a mana ability makes no difference.

That said, despite the playtest mistake, I hope having a judge writing this article will mean, at minimum, that all of the decks work as advertised. Play mistakes happen, but it's always disappointing when (rare as the occurrence has been) an entire deck has been built on a combo that doesn't actually work.
Rules Nut Advisor
"Mana ability" means it produces mana, like Llanowar Elves, not that it costs mana (plus a couple additional restrictions but those aren't relevant unless you're running a select few cards). Chameleon Colossus will quadruple up on power without a hitch.



Oh wow, I think I've been getting a ton of things confused then. Does that mean that I can use Llanowar Elves' effect the moment I summon him? Is his tap effect not affected by summoning sickness? (I'm sorry if this is getting off topic)


Any ability with the sumbol is affected by "summoning sickness". Being (or not being) a mana ability makes no difference.

That said, despite the playtest mistake, I hope having a judge writing this article will mean, at minimum, that all of the decks work as advertised. Play mistakes happen, but it's always disappointing when (rare as the occurrence has been) an entire deck has been built on a combo that doesn't actually work.



Alright, thanks for the clarification...

That said, despite the playtest mistake, I hope having a judge writing this article will mean, at minimum, that all of the decks work as advertised. Play mistakes happen, but it's always disappointing when (rare as the occurrence has been) an entire deck has been built on a combo that doesn't actually work.


Yeah, I've seen a few of those over the years.  I don't think I'd make a mistake that severe, but you never know.  I am unfortunately rather absent-minded, so there's always a chance that something will just slip my mind.
To be honest, I was a little disapointed in this article.  Don't get me wrong, I was perfectly happy with the writing style, theprofessionalism you used in writing and documenting the games, and even the humor you used throughout was at a good level, not dry, but not slapstick.

What I wasn't happy with, was the level of johnnyness in the article.  From The Lab is supposed to be the Johnniest of Johnny articles, and the use of the preview card just didn't feel like it belonged here.  I love the idea of smashing face for 20 trample damage in a single turn, with a single creature.  The timmy in me is excited, and the spike in my is happy with the (relitivly) low number of cards and mana used to do it.  But the Johnny in me felt bored.  While the first deck seemed more Johnnyish, it still felt like it fell short.  3 card combos to cause loss of all life if great, but they aren't unheard of, unique.  Granted, I haven't spent any time working out what 18 card combo that only works with the bracers I will want to build a deck based on, but I didn't agree to write a weekly article about johnniness for johnnies.

Despite all of what I just said, I do look forward to seeing what future concoctions you can come up with.  It's always fun to stretch my brain muscles (although I groan when I cry out in frustration "why didn't I think of that card??!?!?!?!?"), so good luck in stretching yours.
Hello New Lab Forums! :D


Two Things:


Riku of Two Reflections.


Maelstrom Wanderer. (thanks to cybishop for pointing out that Static, Triggered, and Activated are different. I need to double check this man just in case he's Static or Triggered. Riku, though, most definitely works. Absolutely.)



Card has been broken. My Job here as an MTG Combo Terrorist is done. Next card. ^_^            
Hello New Lab Forums! :D


Two Things:


Riku of Two Reflections.


Maelstrom Wanderer. (thanks to cybishop for pointing out that Static, Triggered, and Activated are different. I need to double check this man just in case he's Static or Triggered. Riku, though, most definitely works. Absolutely.)



Card has been broken. My Job here as an MTG Combo Terrorist is done. Next card. ^_^            

Wanderer most definitely does not work, its triggered and it occurs before it even has a chance to be in play and equipped. it has a static ability (all creatures you control get haste) but that doesn't work with the bracers. riku works but is mana intensive enough to be feasible only in commander.
Riku doesn't work either.  His abilities are triggered abilities, not activated ones.
Hello New Lab Forums! :D


Two Things:


Riku of Two Reflections.


Maelstrom Wanderer. (thanks to cybishop for pointing out that Static, Triggered, and Activated are different. I need to double check this man just in case he's Static or Triggered. Riku, though, most definitely works. Absolutely.)



Card has been broken. My Job here as an MTG Combo Terrorist is done. Next card. ^_^            

Wanderer most definitely does not work, its triggered and it occurs before it even has a chance to be in play and equipped. it has a static ability (all creatures you control get haste) but that doesn't work with the bracers. riku works but is mana intensive enough to be feasible only in commander.

Riku of Two Reflections doesn't have any activated abilities. He has two triggered abilities. Triggered abilities always involve the words "When", "Whenever" or "At". Activated abilities have a colon, the : symbol. Simple as that. 

The Bracers mean that whenever you activate an activated ability, by paying everything before the colon, then you get two copies of whatever happens after the colon.
To be honest, I was a little disapointed in this article.  Don't get me wrong, I was perfectly happy with the writing style, theprofessionalism you used in writing and documenting the games, and even the humor you used throughout was at a good level, not dry, but not slapstick.

What I wasn't happy with, was the level of johnnyness in the article.  From The Lab is supposed to be the Johnniest of Johnny articles, and the use of the preview card just didn't feel like it belonged here.  I love the idea of smashing face for 20 trample damage in a single turn, with a single creature.  The timmy in me is excited, and the spike in my is happy with the (relitivly) low number of cards and mana used to do it.  But the Johnny in me felt bored.  While the first deck seemed more Johnnyish, it still felt like it fell short.  3 card combos to cause loss of all life if great, but they aren't unheard of, unique.  Granted, I haven't spent any time working out what 18 card combo that only works with the bracers I will want to build a deck based on, but I didn't agree to write a weekly article about johnniness for johnnies.

Despite all of what I just said, I do look forward to seeing what future concoctions you can come up with.  It's always fun to stretch my brain muscles (although I groan when I cry out in frustration "why didn't I think of that card??!?!?!?!?"), so good luck in stretching yours.


If you're a Johnny, break it yourself This thing has tremendous potential- it's just about finding the combo that'll make it hugely gross.
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To be honest, I was a little disapointed in this article.  Don't get me wrong, I was perfectly happy with the writing style, theprofessionalism you used in writing and documenting the games, and even the humor you used throughout was at a good level, not dry, but not slapstick.

What I wasn't happy with, was the level of johnnyness in the article.  From The Lab is supposed to be the Johnniest of Johnny articles, and the use of the preview card just didn't feel like it belonged here.  I love the idea of smashing face for 20 trample damage in a single turn, with a single creature.  The timmy in me is excited, and the spike in my is happy with the (relitivly) low number of cards and mana used to do it.  But the Johnny in me felt bored.  While the first deck seemed more Johnnyish, it still felt like it fell short.  3 card combos to cause loss of all life if great, but they aren't unheard of, unique.  Granted, I haven't spent any time working out what 18 card combo that only works with the bracers I will want to build a deck based on, but I didn't agree to write a weekly article about johnniness for johnnies.

Despite all of what I just said, I do look forward to seeing what future concoctions you can come up with.  It's always fun to stretch my brain muscles (although I groan when I cry out in frustration "why didn't I think of that card??!?!?!?!?"), so good luck in stretching yours.


If you're a Johnny, break it yourself This thing has tremendous potential- it's just about finding the combo that'll make it hugely gross.



Oh, totally, I agree with you, like I said, I get sad/mad when FtL (or previous incarnations) come up with the perfect answer when I couldn't.  I was just saying I was uninspired by the level of johnniness in the article.

Admiteddly, this card was a bit... easy.  Tune in next week, when I'll be countering my own spells, discarding cards for no reason, and casting spells of colors that aren't even in my deck.
Admiteddly, this card was a bit... easy.  Tune in next week, when I'll be countering my own spells, discarding cards for no reason, and casting spells of colors that aren't even in my deck.


So it will be a Dimir card? Awesome!

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Admiteddly, this card was a bit... easy.  Tune in next week, when I'll be countering my own spells, discarding cards for no reason, and casting spells of colors that aren't even in my deck.

Heeheehee. Now that's what we like to hear ;)
So, how would this work on Deathrite Shaman?

It would be incredibly sweet if I could exile a single card from a graveyard and pay a single mana for four damage to opponent or four lifegain for me, but is that the way it works? Or would I have to exile two cards and pay two mana? Or one card and two mana? Or two cards and one mana?

Thanks....
@Zachawry:  one card, one mana=4 damage/4 life.

@Mike
Thank you for resurrecting FtL.  It's so good to have the Johnny column back.

And if I may say so, that is one CLASSY HAT you've got there sir.  I love it.


aaaaaand I just realized something:
Your last name is Cannon??!?
Boss.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

So, how would this work on Deathrite Shaman?

It would be incredibly sweet if I could exile a single card from a graveyard and pay a single mana for four damage to opponent or four lifegain for me, but is that the way it works? Or would I have to exile two cards and pay two mana? Or one card and two mana? Or two cards and one mana?

Thanks....

Let me explain this by referring to what was already posted, five posts before yours:
Triggered abilities always involve the words "When", "Whenever" or "At". Activated abilities have a colon, the : symbol. Simple as that. 

The Bracers mean that whenever you activate an activated ability, by paying everything before the colon, then you get two copies of whatever happens after the colon.


On Deathrite Shaman, what's before the colon: The tap symbol and the mana payment. Exiling the land, and crucially, the targeting condition, are after the colon.

So you get two copies of the ability, for one mana (and one tap) - but only if you can choose two different targets to exile. Otherwise the first copy of the ability will exile the card, and then when the second copy tries to resolve, the target will already be gone, so the ability will be countered for having no target.

In summary: one mana, two cards, four life.
awwww  


:L looks like I need to RTFC better next time :3 My bads. :P


I should have known though. :P Very often when a card like this comes out, the VERY FIRST card I think of is usually 'the obvious one'-- one that is SO Obvious, that R&D Graciously decided to change it from what I thought it said to something that doesn't actaally work the way I'm trying to do it. :P


Same thing happened with Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I don't see any real Balance Issues with a version of this that's synergistic with Riku, but I guess R&D didn't want it to be, or didn't think most noobs would know what a 'triggered' ability is so they didn't put that word in the rules text. Oh well.



It's a VERY GOOD thing though that I was wrong about Sorin 2.0, because if I was right, it would have been Banned in Commander like, on the spot. :3 Gatherer comments on that card are choked up by a debate between me and the people who RTFC more carefully, but are also less whimsical because nobody even stood up for WISHING it worked with Kraj the way I was trying to. :P      
Gilded Lotus + Captain of Mists and this equip, BOOM Infinite mana on Standard, than Increasing Confusion and gg.
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