Give magic to everyone!

It's a fantasy setting so lets give magic to everyone. To a certain degree.

In this idea we will suggest that spell go from level 1 to level 10

Pure martial classes would have best AC, best HP, best weapon attack bonuses, worst spell attacks and worst spell progression(from level 1 to level 4)

Pure magic classes would have worst AC, worst HP, worst weapon attack bonuses, best spell attacks and best spell progression(from level 1 to level 10)

in between can lay many classes as we now see as hybrids(rangers, paladins, swordmages, arcane tricksters, warpriests, shamans, etc.)

additional balance factor can be added by bonus skills per level.


So, with good enough balancing of HP, AC, magic and weapon attack bonuses, spell levels, skill progression, we wouldn't need any multiclassing.

So, if I want to play a character who never learned magic because he sees it as a crutch and lives only by his sword, I'm SOL?
this is a concept best left to setting books or the DMG.
While D&D isn't a completely generic system, people expect a fairly high degree of genericism from it. Everyone having at least a little magic might work for a setting-specific indie, but D&D trades too much in universal resonance, I think, for the idea to work here. I actually don't dislike the idea as a concept, I just think that people's expectations are too violated by that kind of thing for a generic fantasy system like D&D.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
So, if I want to play a character who never learned magic because he sees it as a crutch and lives only by his sword, I'm SOL?



we could argue that we can add ACF to pure classes when we would like no magic what so ever.

But, in world full of dragons, mindflayers, demons, devils, celestial, elementals, little magic would rub on even on the most thick headed given enough experience with those things.
Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.
Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.

I'd be fine with the martial classes getting a weak spell attack bonus (since Wizards getting an attack bonus with weapons) that they could use with wands and scrolls or any cantrips they buy with feats, but no actual spell casting by default. Fighters get +1 magic attacks and rogues get +2 (since they're historically the Use Magic Device class).

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Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.



Magic should always be something special, otherwise it isn't magic anymore. Once it becomes commonplace, it's no different than technology that anyone can use. Clarke's Third Law kind of applies here. What you're describing pretty much boils down to a high magic setting. Which is fine for people who like that. What's typical of D&D is normal magic settings. I prefer normal or low magic settings.
Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.



Magic should always be something special, otherwise it isn't magic anymore. Once it becomes commonplace, it's no different than technology that anyone can use. Clarke's Third Law kind of applies here. What you're describing pretty much boils down to a high magic setting. Which is fine for people who like that. What's typical of D&D is normal magic settings. I prefer normal or low magic settings.



Let's take Faerun for example(or even Eberron).

while magic isn't everyone's specialty, common folk are familiar with it, and it isn't more intimidating to see someone crisped by a fireball from some skinny man than a city guard cleaved in half by a orc barbarian.

So in that setting it would be logical to assume that even a fighter could master some basic magic between level 4-6.


For certain settings, you could certainly do something like this.  The examples I can think of, though, all have very unique magic mechanics.  Weis & Hickman's Darksword series, or Butcher's Furies of Calderon, for instance.  Both of which, interestingly, feature a protagonist who is the only person in the world to have no magic at all.

As a generic D&D feature, no.  Every D&D setting, and every setting that D&D was inspired by, has a population that is almost entirely nonmagical, with spellcasters ranging from a small percentage of the populace to being a handful in the entire world.

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book  
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What if I want to run a campaign set in a historical period on Earth?

No thanks; magic should be optional and not everyone needs to have it.

If you have to resort to making offensive comments instead of making logical arguments, you deserve to be ignored.

So, if I want to play a character who never learned magic because he sees it as a crutch and lives only by his sword, I'm SOL?

I have always felt very strongly (since 2E) that, if magic is a thing which can be picked up by dabbling (as the 2E bard had done), then you would have to be an incredibly stubborn (or dim-witted) individual to not learn any of it.

Of course, I have also felt strongly that anyone planning to go into combat should learn at least the basics of self-defense and weapon use.

If fighters, rogues, and traditional martial types gained a very modest spell attack bonus and had the option to learn from a rather limited list of low-level spells, then it would be no different than the 3E wizard who could make weapon attacks but would avoid doing so if there was any other option.  Just as many 3E wizards would ignore their masterwork daggers and that meager bonus to hit and pitiful damage, you could fully play a character who didn't cast spells ever. 

Just as a truly dedicated wizard could not carry a weapon, your dedicated warrior could not buy scrolls or learn spells. It is the exact same thing.

(And of course, there is plenty of room for settings where you can't learn magic in your free time; I would just argue that default core D&D has - at least since 2E - been a setting where you could.)

The metagame is not the game.

So to keep magic special......do we say that multiclassing for spells is off the table?  If my 5th level Fighter can take a level in Wizard after the next adventure, then magic is not special enough to prevent it from being commonplace.  I should have to spend years at study under a master like 1st level Wizards did to get that level.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Have fun in your other game that is absolutely not Dungeons & Dragons.
I have always felt very strongly (since 2E) that,if magic is a thing which can be picked up by dabbling (as the 2E bard had done),then you would have to be an incredibly stubborn (or dim-witted) individual to not learn any of it.

Same is true of plumbing, or electrical wiring, in the real world. Yet the vast majority of people can't backflush a pump, or install a simple light switch. Hell, most can't defrost their own freezers. So limiting magic to specialists makes perfect sense.
Same is true of plumbing, or electrical wiring, in the real world. Yet the vast majority of people can't backflush a pump, or install a simple light switch. Hell, most can't defrost their own freezers. So limiting magic to specialists makes perfect sense.

Yeah, but magic is really useful.  I could go my entire life without any reason to install a light switch.  The ability to create water, or detect magic, or even detect poison - these things could all be really useful to someone who expects to travel, hopes to find magical items, and might have reason to fear poison.

I could learn to install a light switch in... a few hours, maybe?  If I could learn to cast prestidigitation in a few hours, or even if it took 100 hours over the course of two weeks, would anyone turn down that opportunity?



The metagame is not the game.

Have fun in your other game that is absolutely not Dungeons & Dragons.

So D&D can have it both ways, but only if they are the ways you like?  Is magic hard for people to learn and special or is it something you can pick up like a passing hobby and everyone has it?

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

In D&D, fighters don't get spells. Welcome to D&D.

You know, at Burger King, their motto is "have it your way!" But if you go in and order a walrus-burger, they won't serve you one. Filthy hypocrites.
So D&D can have it both ways, but only if they are the ways you like?  Is magic hard for people to learn and special or is it something you can pick up like a passing hobby and everyone has it?

Honestly, picking up a cantrip with a feat, then maybe a level 1 spell at third level with another feat, sounds about right for the amount of time involved.  It jives well with the "you can do this as a hobby, if you spend some time at it" bard, but also explains why not every fighter would just "pick it up".  I know that my fighters would almost always invest a feat in such (as long as they make it more than once or twice per day), but I can accept that not everyone would want to.

The metagame is not the game.

The biggest problem I find with magic for everyone is that it runs counter to fantasy genre conventions as found in most of the genre.  Could Conan cast spells?  No.  Granted D&D is not Robert E. Howard or any other fantasy writer, but it does relect there works.
 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/10.jpg)

In D&D, fighters don't get spells. Welcome to D&D.

Surprisingly, by taking the right themes, fighters could indeed start out with spells in 4th Ed.  But I guess that's not D&D.  It says it is, and it shows us that it can be done.  But hey, let's just not look at that.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I could learn to install a light switch in... a few hours, maybe?  If I could learn to cast prestidigitation in a few hours, or even if it took 100 hours over the course of two weeks, would anyone turn down that opportunity?

Prestidigitation is probably an exception.  It's so astronomically useful (flavor a raw turnip?  Light a torch?  Clean or dye a dress?  Write down a phone number in thin air?) that yes, everyone in a world where learning magic is easy should do it.  Which is why most settings describe the process of learning magic as taking many years of dedicated study to even pick up the basics.  A few other spells might qualify: cure minor wounds, mage hand, maybe light or minor illusion.

Most other spells are too niche, or the effects can be achieved more easily through other means.  People are lazy.  Becoming CPR-certified takes an afternoon and can save a life.  Most people choose not to do it.  Anyone smart enough to play D&D could learn to install a light switch in 10 minutes, but it's not a skill that comes in handy often.  Those are easily comparable to detect poison or read magic.  The attack spells are more easily replicated with a mundane weapon.

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In D&D, fighters don't get spells. Welcome to D&D.

Surprisingly, by taking the right background, fighters could indeed start out with spells in 4th Ed.  But I guess that's not D&D.  It says it is, and it shows us that it can be done.  But hey, let's just not look at that.

Same with 3.5. I think the distinction that PD is shooting for is that it's historically been something you've had to specifically pick up representing special experience or talent, instead of just a basic part of the class.

Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
Hmm.  A fighter can start with a couple of spells in D&D Next as well.  I'm not sure what the point is.


Carl
I'm seeing what the OP is proposing as being similar to how psionics were handled in Dark Sun, especially as it was intro'd in AD&D 2e.  The setting used not only the core 3 but also the Complete Psionics Handbook (a splatbook).

Everybody had a psionic talent.  The Sorcerer-Kings were powerful psionicists.  Even the monsters screwed with your head, one way or another.  Psionics wasn't optional, it was a fact of life.

The revised boxed set included a 'fast-play' booklet on psionics.  The Complete Psionics Handbook was still an option of course, for players who wanted more depth.

= = =

Yeah, giving magic to everyone could make for an interesting setting I think; Dark Sun is proof of that.  As others say, though, it's best if left up to setting specifics (outside the core game).
/\ Art
Granted it might be interesting.   But it shouldn't be default/ core D&D.

If you want to go that route - just do it.  You don't even need a module.  Just allow anyone to choose one cantrip when they create their characters.  Poof - everyone has magic.

If you want to make it a bit more interesting - work with them to come up with their own unique bit.  Read a couple Xanth books for ideas.

But it's not core D&D.

Car
The biggest problem I find with magic for everyone is that it runs counter to fantasy genre conventions as found in most of the genre.  Could Conan cast spells?  No.  Granted D&D is not Robert E. Howard or any other fantasy writer, but it does relect there works.
 


Did Conan ever try to cast spells?  Even if he knew he could learn magic, would he try to?  When you use a single person or character as an example, you have to take their personality into account.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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Save the breasts.

Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.



Magic should always be something special, otherwise it isn't magic anymore. Once it becomes commonplace, it's no different than technology that anyone can use. Clarke's Third Law kind of applies here. What you're describing pretty much boils down to a high magic setting. Which is fine for people who like that. What's typical of D&D is normal magic settings. I prefer normal or low magic settings.



Let's take Faerun for example(or even Eberron).

while magic isn't everyone's specialty, common folk are familiar with it, and it isn't more intimidating to see someone crisped by a fireball from some skinny man than a city guard cleaved in half by a orc barbarian.

So in that setting it would be logical to assume that even a fighter could master some basic magic between level 4-6.





But it isn't, because they don't.
The biggest problem I find with magic for everyone is that it runs counter to fantasy genre conventions as found in most of the genre.  Could Conan cast spells?  No.  Granted D&D is not Robert E. Howard or any other fantasy writer, but it does relect there works.
 


Did Conan ever try to cast spells?  Even if he knew he could learn magic, would he try to?  When you use a single person or character as an example, you have to take their personality into account.



I'm pretty sure Conan had an active hatred of magic.
I think there's a disconnect at a couple of levels here.  Let's talk about default assumptions, shall we?

  1. What is magic?

  2. Where does magic come from?

  3. Does magic come in various types?  If so, what are these types?

  4. What is the scope of magic?

  5. Are there limitations to magic? If so, what are they?


  • If there are possible [mythical] reasons for these limitations, then by all means please cite them


  • How does one acquire magic?


  • From what I understand


    1. Magic is the explanation used to quantify various effects that are clearly beyond that of what is achievable by the most basic capabilities of humans*.

    2. Magic permeates the multiverses of the system in varying amounts, from sparse and concentrated, to abundant and commonplace.  In Faerun, for instance, up until the Spellplague incident, magic was more or less concentrated into a pool of magic called the Weave (although some magic seems to have come from a twin pool of magic called the Anti-Weave).  However, because of the "real" existence of mythical creatures, as well as the physical existence of deities and their enemies, it is not far-fetched that even in Faerun, magic is not so focused on the Weave that its eventual destruction removed magic from Faerun and connected worlds/planes permanently.

    3. Magic does, in fact, come in various types.  The basic three are:


    • Academic magic.  Also known as "Arcane magic", this type of magic is the most widely recognized, particularly because of the mutability of this form of magic.  However, due to the fact that summoning and utilizing this type of magic involves intricate physical movement and the enunciation of mysterious chants and words of power, combined with the fact that the preparations can take several hours to complete, it is really difficult to utilize magic outside of a prescribed set of procedures called "spells" and "rituals".  Spells have the advantage of speed because they can be prepared ahead of time with just a specific set of movements and enunciations needed to release the magic in the spell, although rituals often contain magic so potent that preparing them as spells reduces their efficiency.

    • Spiritual magic.  Also known as "Divine magic", this type of magic involves beings who have so much magical capacity that they are able to freely endow them to their servants without diminishment.  Unlike Arcane magic, Divine magic is acquired through devotion and daily penance, although other forms of acquiring Divine magic may exist.  Because the being(s) involved is the one giving their servant(s) power, it is believed that losing connection to the being(s) will result in the loss of magic.

    • Life magic.  Sometimes called "Psionics", sometimes called "Ki", but usually not even recognized as magic at all -- instead it is referred usually as "life force", not "life magic" -- life magic involves using not something that is learned, or granted, but simply mastered.  Psionicists often start out with little more than using just a little more mind power than the normal person, but with training is able to shape reality with their minds.  Monks spend days in meditation and training in order to attain enlightenment, and thus are able to do things that normal people would think of as impossible.  Even the most mundane and ordinary of warriors, after years of being bloodied, battered, burnt and placed in harm's way, would develop astounding amounts of resilience to pain and can even survive where others are surely slain; legends of old even speak of warriors who shrug off the most powerful disintegration spell, can walk through a Meteor Storm almost unharmed, and are even able to laugh at the faces of gods themselves.


  • The scope of magic seems to affect every facet of the multiverses, from bringing magical creatures to life, to every day magical activities in the case of Eberron and similar worlds.  As long as an effect is beyond the capability and comprehension of normal human creatures, it's magic.

  • There seems to be a limitation on magic, depending on the type of magic we're talking about.


    • In spite of the study of life (necromancy), Arcane magic seems to be unable to fully bring the dead back to life, although some fields of study have been able to tap into spiritual and life magic in other ways.  The magic involved in Arcane magic often fall in both the utilitarian and offense-oriented fields.

    • Generally speaking, Divine magic primarily involves soothing pain and recovering injuries, even when the being(s) involved often have harmful intentions (not all subscribe to this theory though, as certain clerics have been found easily harming as opposed to healing).  The magic involved in Divine magic often fall in both the defensive and offense-oriented fields, with some utilitarian purposes from time to time.

    • Life magic is both the weakest and the strongest of magics, depending on who we're talking about.  For Psionicists, Monks and the like, it seems like you are able to tap into the utilitarian nature of arcane magic combined with the offensive *and* defensive capabilities of both Arcane and Divine magic; it wouldn't be surprising if Life magic can also be considered "universal magic" or "reality altering magic".  For Fighters however, who are often too engrossed in their non-magical training, life magic is heavily restricted in the defensive (can take more blows and shrug off more spells), offensive (can hit faster, harder and overall better), and utilitarian (stats favoring improvisation) aspects.


  • Although it's been explained already, here's a quick summary:


    • Arcane magic. Acquired through study, practice, and training.

    • Divine magic. Acquired through prayer, habitual practice of prescribed rites, and training.

    • Life magic. Acquired through experience, learning from your mistakes, and training.


    Exceptions to what is listed here do exist, mainly in the form of scrolls, potions and magical items, as these items are able to imbue the user with arcane and at times even divine magic, even without magical aptitude involved.  Although not all arcane or divine magic acquired in this manner is useful or even helpful; indeed, some magic items -- cursed items -- even bring harm to the user, from prankish (like changing gender) to fatal.


    Related to the original post, do we give arcane magic to all? No, because arcane magic is by definition done through research.  However, I wholeheartedly subscribe to the idea that, because D&D is a fantasy game where you have


    • "mundane" warriors falling down the height of the Empire State Building and still able to fight another day

    • so many classes prescribed to neither arcane nor divine magic, yet are able to pull off just as many magical stunts as your average wizard or cleric, sometimes powered by something as universally accessible as "imagination"

    • you have so many magical creatures that, even in the absence of the "magic = technology" (MagiTek) concept, they exist nevertheless

    • magic as easily recognizable and permeating the reality of all multiverses


    magic itself is available to everyone, in varying amounts and a multitude of forms.

    And if magic is to be limited campaign-wise -- you know, the "high magic" or "low magic" settings -- it should be limited by the maximum level creatures overall can achieve, as well as the level they can start at to get the best "feel" that they want.  It's not like it hasn't happened before -- there's a reason why you hear the term "E6" in pre-4E D&D -- and those who prefer story over fighting would likely appreciate non-mechanical benefits over EXP and new shiney features.

    * for the simple reason that the participants in the game of Dungeons and Dragons are, in fact, humans (generally speaking) 
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    The biggest problem I find with magic for everyone is that it runs counter to fantasy genre conventions as found in most of the genre.  Could Conan cast spells?  No.  Granted D&D is not Robert E. Howard or any other fantasy writer, but it does relect there works.
     


    Did Conan ever try to cast spells?  Even if he knew he could learn magic, would he try to?  When you use a single person or character as an example, you have to take their personality into account.



    I'm pretty sure Conan had an active hatred of magic.


    I thought that he did, but I'm only familiar with Conan from the Arnold movies so I thought I'd ask.  So, if Conan hated magic, he likely wouldn't choose to learn it even if he could.  IDK if other characters from Conan shed more light on Howard's intent regarding the learning of magic, but (in light of your information) Conan seem like a poor choice for Howndawg's argument.

    There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

     

    The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

     

    You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

     

    Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

    D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

    Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

     

    Save the breasts.

    In D&D, fighters don't get spells. Welcome to D&D. You know, at Burger King, their motto is "have it your way!" But if you go in and order a walrus-burger, they won't serve you one. Filthy hypocrites.

    You better call WOTC quick and tell them that this isn't D&D then. My high elf fighter with  Arcane Dabbler can cast THREE spells!!!!! At third level, he'll take Healing Initiate And be able to cast FIVE spells! OMG, the sky is falling!!! Wink

    LOL Your head may explode over this, but at 9th, I'll pick up Restore Life and he'll be able to raise the dead!!!
    Magic isn't easy to learn in Faerun. That is evident by Carrie Brie using fake magic to scare goblins and Jack Ravenwild who is an odd breed of mage who learned magic through osmosis like a sorcerer. He often mentioned how others would try their damndest to use a wand and failed while it was natural for him. The tavern joke in Shadowdale was that if you got out of line Elmenster would turn you into a frog. I took that culture as a disassociation from spell casting
    Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



    I agree.
    Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



    you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

    but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.




    If magic isn't special, then it isn't "magic". 

    Let's take Faerun for example(or even Eberron).

    while magic isn't everyone's specialty, common folk are familiar with it, and it isn't more intimidating to see someone crisped by a fireball from some skinny man than a city guard cleaved in half by a orc barbarian.



    Your example is very flawed.

    1) Even in those two settings, nowhere NEAR everyone has magic.  Not even the PCs.

    2) Even in those two settings, seeing someone crisped by a fireball is a lot more intimidating that seeing someone cut in half.  The possibility of burning to death at the snap of someones fingers is tons more intimidating than a sword that can be outrun.

    So in that setting it would be logical to assume that even a fighter could master some basic magic between level 4-6.



    If that were so, then in those settings fighters would have been given magic.  They weren't.
    Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



    I agree.

    Please define magic, and how, realistically, can someone who doesn't have magic play on the same table with one who has.
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    This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
    Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



    I agree.

    Please define magic, and how, realistically, can someone who doesn't have magic play on the same table with one who has.



    Magic is not commonplace or it isn't magic.  As for playing at the same table realistically, that's been happening for 30+ years. 

    Let's take Faerun for example(or even Eberron).

    while magic isn't everyone's specialty, common folk are familiar with it, and it isn't more intimidating to see someone crisped by a fireball from some skinny man than a city guard cleaved in half by a orc barbarian.



    Your example is very flawed.

    1) Even in those two settings, nowhere NEAR everyone has magic.  Not even the PCs.

    In eberron, I'd say most people in it have used magic at some point in there life, even if they don't cast it themselves.

    2) Even in those two settings, seeing someone crisped by a fireball is a lot more intimidating that seeing someone cut in half.  The possibility of burning to death at the snap of someones fingers is tons more intimidating than a sword that can be outrun.

    Replace sword with bow, and he has the same chance to die at the same range.

    Too high-magic for me. Everyone has magic, magic is no longer special. No thanks.



    you could say that in a low magic setting there can be no full caster classes and all full martial lose their magic ability,

    but in a normal setting where you have a party of 5 people and have a same chance to get a fighter, a rogue, a wizard, a cleric and a druid, magic isn't something special or obscured.




    If magic isn't special, then it isn't "magic". 


    That's a matter of personal taste, not a requirement for the definition of magic.  It's important to keep that in mind.

    There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

     

    The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

     

    You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

     

    Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

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    Save the breasts.