12/20/2012 Feature: "Examining the Beta Redesign"

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This thread is for discussion of the feature article "Examining the Beta Redesign", which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I'm new to Magic Online, so I can't comment on the differences that much, but the first thing I noticed after I'd installed it, being very vulnarable to RSI, that there are almost no keyboard shortcuts. It's all clicking and dragging.

Except for the Function keys when playing, to skip over some of the phases, there's not much there (or at least I couldn't find any on the web, if there are, please let me know!). I'd like to navigate through my cards and selecting them for my deck using just my keyboard, that would make life so much easier. 

I really changed my computer habits after I realised using my mouse all the time was giving me serious pain in my arm, hand and neck. I found out that, although it takes some getting used to, using your keyboard is actually a lot faster in most applications (at work I mostly use Excel). I understand that the interface should be understandable for new players because there's a lot going on, but using keyboard shortcuts doesn't take that away at all, it just sits on top of everything.

I'm sure a lot of users (even the ones that don't care using a mouse from a health-perspective) would like to invest some time in learning keyboard combinations to be faster at navigating / deckbuilding and playing.

And while I'm at it, it would be best if you could customize it yourself =) I understand there are still no plans for a Mac version so I finally committed to installing Windows on my Mac, but the Mac can only use the Function keys in combination with another key (Fn). What's wrong with using "Enter" or your "Space Bar" to skip through phase and action alerts? Selecting the answer yes or no with your arrow keys? Why F2? I feel like I'm back to the 80's using Function keys to navigate through my MSDOS programs...

So if you could examine what possibilities are there, you would make a lot of users happy! 
They keep begging us to try the Beta again, but only offer fake "Cube tickets" as an incentive. I really, really like Cube, but the cost is prohibitive, especially considering the fake prizes and continued expense to play regardless of how well I finish a tournament. I've pretty much sworn it off as it is now and very much regret that I'm missing out on the new versions of Cube that come along, Holiday Cube, etc.
I'll only comment on 2 areas, I have have given alot of feedback elsewhere (forums, feedback form, survey etc)

Collection screen.

I get that this is a little better for building decks etc, but this is mean to be a collectible card game. I can't be alone in that I often look through the collection screen, looking through cards I own, set by set getting ideas for decks etc. The new collection screen basically makes this impossible, all your cards are just lumped there in one big pile, no separation, just a big list to scroll through. I don't feel like I own a MTG card collection online anymore.

Trying to go through and work out what I want to make tradable is also more difficult, if I choose to show just mythics, I end up with a pile of cards including such powerful mythics as Kird Ape, and  Murmuring Bosk. I can add more filters to just look at RTR cards, but it feels like we have gone from "Here is a basic view, use the filters if you want" to "Here is a giant pile of card pictures, feel free to add 20 filters so you can attempt to get something close to the functionality you used to have" all because apparently people didn't use the filters much in the past.

I personally sort all my paper cards in binders, sorted by sets. Having this option online helped me justify mentally having to pay the exact same price for both (for boosters that is), that may sound dumb, but looking at my collection from V3 to V4 feels like I have gone from "Here is my collection of MTG cards" to "Here is a giant list of cards we will let you put into decks", it might not seem like much but it literally feels like V3 is showing MY cards, and V4 is showing the cards the system is lending me.

Targeting.

While I can agree that the arrows in V3 might have sometimes appeared confusing, I honestly think removing them entirely is a mistake. On a simple board, it's not too hard to tell what something is targeting in the beta, however, it still does require that *little* bit of extra mental work to scan the battle field looking for the 'targeting reticle' on a card to know what something is targeting. Make the board state more complex, and add in stuff that has multiple or up to X targets, and it compounds, now you have to look all over the place for the target and you can literally miss that something is being targeted. Where with the arrows, it was a simple process of follow the arrow to see what is at the end! Hell, DOTP is meant to be the base level product to get new players into the game, and they use arrows there so it can't be *that* confusing.
I started playing MTGO in Invasion block drafts, and quickly moved on to constructed events. In my opinion, the program has become less user-friendly in every single incarnation. This newest wide beta is by far the worst. I'm not one to complain on message boards, but seriously, the program itself and it's prize payouts have progressively gotten worse for a decade. I don't understand how it's even possible.
I do not understand why you guys are not taking a scan version of the cards, just like other TCG online games? Instead you try to recreate the cards and they look so bad.. I would love to look at my collection and see the real cards, not bugged designed cards..
I'm really enjoying this week of MTGO design articles, as a software engineer I love this kind of stuff.  These screens are definitely tough to design when you consider all the things that matter.

I will say that the mockup of the screens actually looked more usable to me than the real screen examples.  I think this is for two reasons:
 - the black background of the beta client makes everything look heavier
 - the MTGO fantasy-style widgets also make everything look heavier, plus they provide more distraction to the eye, making it hard to find what you want.

The bottom line is that the real screenshot looks way more cluttered than the mockup, even though the mockup is littered with little indicators and comments.  Those problems are there with the V3 client as well, but I was used to it enough that it didn't slow me down.  Now that I'm looking at the Beta client I'm noticing them again.

I haven't been following the progress of beta closely.  Maybe the beta client is skinnable, and the problem is already solved.
I really don't understand the opposition to a "binder view" of one's collection. It may be that the new view is more intuitive for building decks, but it's definitely not intuitive. Nor is it, to use a Maro word, "grokkable." It seems like something that makes sense to the people developing the UI.

But as I'm sure you're aware, what makes sense to a software developer doesn't necessarily make sense to the end user. If I'm playing a card game, a binder of cards makes sense to me -- it looks like the sort of thing I would have. But a bunch of individual pictures doesn't have that kind of mental image for me.

I may be the only one, but I also really miss the tables view that v2(.5? I think that's what it was) had. That felt very nice for casual play -- it meant envisioning sitting down and playing a card game with someone, and it was evocative. Now there are no options but lists.  There are some skins and I like what they look like much better than V3 and even V2, but they don't make me feel like I'm hanging out. That's okay if I'm in tournament mode, I guess, but when I want fun? Lists aren't fun. (Sorry, I'm not Azorius.)

I know there were early concept screens of the table view, so I know it was planned for and scrapped. I doubt it will come back, so I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. Except that I kind of am, but it's not about needing tables -- it's about missing flavor, and wanting it back. I play casually on MTGO far less than I did in the days of V2. Part of that's a shift in my preferences, but part of it is that when I fire up a program full of nothing but lists of games, cards, and statistics -- well, it's not a place to just show up and hang, it's a place to do something. So I end up in TP testing, or in tournaments.

Which is all fine -- I wouldn't play in tournaments if I disliked it. But I think the game's ambiance is part of why I don't just fire it up because I feel like playing Magic.

It feels like the people developing this game are thinking about all the math and presenting something that feels -- mathy, nerdy, "for the intelligent only"-ey. "This is for geeks!" is totally fine, and I'm not dissing math or meaning to belittle all the work you've clearly done and are clearly intending to do. But even geeks who love buttons, I think, begin to notice when there's no flavor.

And, well, while I'm a competitive player and all, a big part of Magic is the flavor.

Stop giving us the lists you're proud to make work right and expecting us to squee.

Give us something where we feel like we're basking in Magic, not drowning in buttons and modes and toggles, and I think you'll see much more positive responses.
Overall I really enjoyed reading this article cause it gives us some overview of what's being done with our feedback and why some choices were made in the first place. I gives me a total different look at the beta and I now understand why some choices were made.

The 2 comments made by WBurgess are also my two main concerns (long term). I mean lag and slowdown is #1 concern atm cause that makes the whole program unfun, but that'll probably be fixed before official release.

The stack and targeting feel really off on the beta client and has been since the beginning. All we can do is points out again and again we want our arrows back and hope you'll change it back.

In the article some nice advantages of the beta client are pointed out and these are real benefits. But I never really noticed them because I just hate the look of the collection/deckbuilding tab and everytime I just give up after 5 minutes. Therefore I never noticed the advancements made over V3.
Like WBurgess said, instead of having a collection overview that you can sort to your liking, we now have a pile of cards that you have to sort to get anywhere.


I'll only comment on 2 areas, I have have given alot of feedback elsewhere (forums, feedback form, survey etc)

Collection screen.

I get that this is a little better for building decks etc, but this is mean to be a collectible card game. I can't be alone in that I often look through the collection screen, looking through cards I own, set by set getting ideas for decks etc. The new collection screen basically makes this impossible, all your cards are just lumped there in one big pile, no separation, just a big list to scroll through. I don't feel like I own a MTG card collection online anymore.



I agree totally and no you are not the only one looking through your collection.  I look at my collection because I like to see what I have won.  It brings a feeling of acomplishment because I am primarily a limited player and roughly half (probably less) of the cards in my collection I have gained by prize payouts in limited events.  I like it when I am flipping pages and I see that foil mythic and remember the game that I won the 8 man queue with it.  Or the time I opened six rares in 4 pack sealed pool and completely dominated.  You can't just flip pages to appreciate the cards we own.  Now you have to build a deck to appreciate them.
What I'm unhappy about in the new program is the awkwardness of the scrolling text box that normally appears on the right in v3.  I want it in its own column.  I need to know the information in this box: targets chosen, cards named, cards revealed.
What was annoying to me was when I tried to put the cards in my collection into a list view instead of a card view.  The card names were all scrunched up and for the life of me, despite the fact as I hovered over the lines on the end of the various sections of the card view, it would not expand.  I have no clue what, if anything I was doing wrong.

Another problem I had was with viewing of some events.  The format it has in the current beta allows for you to see the events that are the ones starting earliest(closest to the time you are looking at it) OR you can view the ones that start the farthest away from the current time.  However, I noticed at one time last night that an event starting at 11:00PM did not show up at all unless I used the view that showed the ones starting the farthest away from the current time.  If I showed it that way, I would see a list of events starting with ones on like January 1 and on top of that I saw one that said 11:00PM.  If I viewed it to see the earliest starting one from the time it was, that one did not show up at all.  Now, I suppose it is possible that one was all the way on the bottom, but that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, being as it was the one event that was starting closest to the time I was viewing the list.

The game interface does seem a lot nicer looking, I will admit.  Now the drafting interface took getting used to.  I was used to the current version that puts all the cards in the sideboard and has you build the deck.  Honestly, I don't understand why that was changed.  The amount of time you have for deckbuilding is easily sufficient for this to be a usable method.  Now, during drafting, instead of just picking, you gotta manually move cards over to the sideboard, etc while you are thinking about your draft deck.  I wasn't too fond of that.  Also, many ppl will end up doing what I did the first time and not necessarily realize that all the cards are going into the deck to start out, rather than the other way around like it currently is.

I will write a further response once I have the time to take a look at other features like trade binders, etc.

 
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />The game interface does seem a lot nicer looking, I will admit.  Now the drafting interface took getting used to.  I was used to the current version that puts all the cards in the sideboard and has you build the deck.  Honestly, I don't understand why that was changed.  The amount of time you have for deckbuilding is easily sufficient for this to be a usable method.  Now, during drafting, instead of just picking, you gotta manually move cards over to the sideboard, etc while you are thinking about your draft deck.  I wasn't too fond of that.  Also, many ppl will end up doing what I did the first time and not necessarily realize that all the cards are going into the deck to start out, rather than the other way around like it currently is.

 



I agree with the people who like the binder in V3, but I don't agree with this comment at all -- it is SO nice to be able to easily sort your cards during the draft into ones you think will make your main deck and the ones you want to banish to your sideboard. This is easily the best feature of the new client. The fact that it might take some adjustments the very first time you do it is no reason not to do it.
Why don't you just let people skin their own UI via XML like all modern MMOs?

I may be the only one, but I also really miss the tables view that v2(.5? I think that's what it was) had. That felt very nice for casual play -- it meant envisioning sitting down and playing a card game with someone, and it was evocative. Now there are no options but lists.  There are some skins and I like what they look like much better than V3 and even V2, but they don't make me feel like I'm hanging out. That's okay if I'm in tournament mode, I guess, but when I want fun? Lists aren't fun. (Sorry, I'm not Azorius.)



You are not the only one, I was actually coming here to mention that. It seems in a similar move we are now losing the binder with not a single mention. The old tables and avatars playing the game actually made it feel more welcoming. The binder made it feel like a collection (though I heartedily agree that the tab situation was out of control, you could fix that without getting rid of the binder.

Some of the improvements made just seem very similar to Apple's new iPhone. They pushed the design so far they got complaints that it didn't 'feel' like a phone. It was too light. Losing the binders in the collection scene just seems to make it fail the basic "does this still feel like magic" test.

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I must agree with what has been said by many on here about the binder collection view and targetting arrows.  Please bring back a binder view and targetting arrows. You would make a lot of people happier and more comfortable switching to v4.

For those that want binder view and targetting arrows back, please fill out the official feedback form and let Wizards know.  Maybe if enough people voice their opinion, they will eventually change their minds and bring them back... one can only hope.
I must agree with what has been said by many on here about the binder collection view and targetting arrows.  Please bring back a binder view and targetting arrows. You would make a lot of people happier and more comfortable switching to v4.

For those that want binder view and targetting arrows back, please fill out the official feedback form and let Wizards know.  Maybe if enough people voice their opinion, they will eventually change their minds and bring them back... one can only hope.


Also, the feedback threads stickied in the Magic Online General Forum.

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I may be the only one, but I also really miss the tables view that v2(.5? I think that's what it was) had. That felt very nice for casual play -- it meant envisioning sitting down and playing a card game with someone, and it was evocative. Now there are no options but lists.  There are some skins and I like what they look like much better than V3 and even V2, but they don't make me feel like I'm hanging out. That's okay if I'm in tournament mode, I guess, but when I want fun? Lists aren't fun. (Sorry, I'm not Azorius.)



You are not the only one, I was actually coming here to mention that. It seems in a similar move we are now losing the binder with not a single mention. The old tables and avatars playing the game actually made it feel more welcoming. The binder made it feel like a collection (though I heartedily agree that the tab situation was out of control, you could fix that without getting rid of the binder.

Some of the improvements made just seem very similar to Apple's new iPhone. They pushed the design so far they got complaints that it didn't 'feel' like a phone. It was too light. Losing the binders in the collection scene just seems to make it fail the basic "does this still feel like magic" test.



Oh yes, the tab thing was insane and awful and needed fixing. But I think they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It's like they want the game not to feel like a card game, but rather like something else, not entirely specified.
Give us an API.

The community will do the rest.

Later,

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A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.

I may be the only one, but I also really miss the tables view that v2(.5? I think that's what it was) had. That felt very nice for casual play -- it meant envisioning sitting down and playing a card game with someone, and it was evocative. Now there are no options but lists.  There are some skins and I like what they look like much better than V3 and even V2, but they don't make me feel like I'm hanging out. That's okay if I'm in tournament mode, I guess, but when I want fun? Lists aren't fun. (Sorry, I'm not Azorius.)



You are not the only one, I was actually coming here to mention that. It seems in a similar move we are now losing the binder with not a single mention. The old tables and avatars playing the game actually made it feel more welcoming. The binder made it feel like a collection (though I heartedily agree that the tab situation was out of control, you could fix that without getting rid of the binder.

Some of the improvements made just seem very similar to Apple's new iPhone. They pushed the design so far they got complaints that it didn't 'feel' like a phone. It was too light. Losing the binders in the collection scene just seems to make it fail the basic "does this still feel like magic" test.



Oh yes, the tab thing was insane and awful and needed fixing. But I think they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It's like they want the game not to feel like a card game, but rather like something else, not entirely specified.



I'd say rather perhaps it was the same motivation that made v3 initially so repugnant. They didn't bother polling to find out what was actually good about the prior version before starting ahead on a redesign. Then as people voiced dissatisfaction things started being added in that were lost in translation. I don't think it was really a "toss the whole old design out" thing as much as "come up with something new" thing. I know that is a subtle distinction but it is one.

Unfortunately, I don't think they will hit on the ideal version for me so I am just hoping enough of the things I am positive about in v3 get ported to v4. Other than that we will end up having to grin and bear it as we did with v3 until someone came along and started smoothing off the many rough edges and fixing the worst offender bugs.

It is also my hope that the quality of v4 will be higher before final launch than v3 was. We can only wait and see and comment as we see fit.

I don't think they are trying to move us away from the Card Game paradigm. That would be fatal imho. Just as some people love FPS games or RTS games some of us really love card games and that is what draws us to MTGO over other pastimes.

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I do not understand why you guys are not taking a scan version of the cards, just like other TCG online games? Instead you try to recreate the cards and they look so bad.. I would love to look at my collection and see the real cards, not bugged designed cards..



Because cards need to be displayed at a range of sizes, and be clear and readable at every size. Simply scaling down a scan will not do this.

Because the download size for every magic card at high enough resolution would be gigabytes.

Because they need to dynamically change things on the card (power, toughness, frame colour, keywords) when game state effects modify them.

Agree that the appearance needs a lot of work (compare to DotP on iPad, zoomed-in cards look identical to card previews that we see on the official website). But simply scanning in the cards is not the solution.


And while I'm at it, it would be best if you could customize it yourself =) I understand there are still no plans for a Mac version so I finally committed to installing Windows on my Mac, but the Mac can only use the Function keys in combination with another key (Fn). What's wrong with using "Enter" or your "Space Bar" to skip through phase and action alerts? Selecting the answer yes or no with your arrow keys? Why F2? I feel like I'm back to the 80's using Function keys to navigate through my MSDOS programs...

 



I am using a Mac too, with Parallels. You can modify the key settings. Go to Input Settings on the Account tab.
This thread is for discussion of the feature article "Examining the Beta Redesign", which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I would like an option to create a binder with all cards not used in a deck. 

I have a lot of excess cards and am thinking about trading them, but doing so is made much more difficult by the fact that I cannot run a search for all cards not in a deck. A simple search logic function would fix this. 

 
This thread is for discussion of the feature article "Examining the Beta Redesign", which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I would like an option to create a binder with all cards not used in a deck. 

I have a lot of excess cards and am thinking about trading them, but doing so is made much more difficult by the fact that I cannot run a search for all cards not in a deck. A simple search logic function would fix this. 

 



That would be great!  It would also help (me at least) when it comes to modifying my decks, easier to look for paths not traveled for my decks' strategies.

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All:
Thanks so much for your feedback. Our team has talked for a long time about incorporating a more skeuomorphic design to the MTGO Beta. Here's an interesting article about it for UI nerds like myself:
realmacsoftware.com/blog/skeuomorphism-a...
As we complete a number of foundational issues with the client, we will be able to address some of the more flavorful challenges with the Beta's presentaton.

Just today, we have been putting the finishing touches on a targeting arrows solution. We believe that what is important is that players are clear in understanding which card/effect is assiciated with another card/effect -- and the Beta, as it currently stands, doesn't do this well enough. Arrows are one way of accomplishing this, but we believe there are less-cluttered ways of doing that. We hope you'll see the solution in the next month or two.

I'm not certain that the Play Lobby will be able to support the tables-in-a-room paradigm we used years ago, due to the increased scale of players. But I agree that its flavor is inviting and personable. We will research any ways we can bring that friendliness to the Beta Client, while keeping tournaments easy to find and join.

We originally believed that a physical-3-ring-binder presentation of cards (while awesome and flavorful) had some scaling issues as well (see the tabs). However, there will be a stopgap measure very soon: a Sort function that orders cards the way they are presented in V3's "collection" view: By Set and Collector Number. I can't promise that the more flavorful physical-3-ring-binder presentation will come quickly, but I can definitely see your perspective here -- and we hope to add this view method in the future.

It is correct that scanning 12,000 paper cards will be a monster to download, we do have a long-term goal to make digital cards look as close to paper cards as possible. While that goal may not be addressed immediately (stability, performance, and gameplay are our top priorities), I certainly have this as a personal priority.

As for a more robust key bindings solution, that is also a long-term goal of many on the team. We hope to improve it, but I don't know how soon we will have a system that does not incorporate the mouse to a large degree. 

On a final note, I want to personally thank you for playing MTGO, and taking the time to tell us how you feel about it. As a player myself, I care so much about making this the best it can be.
..However, there will be a stopgap measure very soon: a Sort function that orders cards the way they are presented in V3's "collection" view: By Set and Collector Number...

I think you've already released this option. I don't have access to the Open Beta Client right now, but I thought I saw this as a sort option the last time I played.
All:
Thanks so much for your feedback. Our team has talked for a long time about incorporating a more skeuomorphic design to the MTGO Beta. Here's an interesting article about it for UI nerds like myself:
realmacsoftware.com/blog/skeuomorphism-a...
As we complete a number of foundational issues with the client, we will be able to address some of the more flavorful challenges with the Beta's presentaton.

Just today, we have been putting the finishing touches on a targeting arrows solution. We believe that what is important is that players are clear in understanding which card/effect is assiciated with another card/effect -- and the Beta, as it currently stands, doesn't do this well enough. Arrows are one way of accomplishing this, but we believe there are less-cluttered ways of doing that. We hope you'll see the solution in the next month or two.

I'm not certain that the Play Lobby will be able to support the tables-in-a-room paradigm we used years ago, due to the increased scale of players. But I agree that its flavor is inviting and personable. We will research any ways we can bring that friendliness to the Beta Client, while keeping tournaments easy to find and join.

We originally believed that a physical-3-ring-binder presentation of cards (while awesome and flavorful) had some scaling issues as well (see the tabs). However, there will be a stopgap measure very soon: a Sort function that orders cards the way they are presented in V3's "collection" view: By Set and Collector Number. I can't promise that the more flavorful physical-3-ring-binder presentation will come quickly, but I can definitely see your perspective here -- and we hope to add this view method in the future.

It is correct that scanning 12,000 paper cards will be a monster to download, we do have a long-term goal to make digital cards look as close to paper cards as possible. While that goal may not be addressed immediately (stability, performance, and gameplay are our top priorities), I certainly have this as a personal priority.

As for a more robust key bindings solution, that is also a long-term goal of many on the team. We hope to improve it, but I don't know how soon we will have a system that does not incorporate the mouse to a large degree. 

On a final note, I want to personally thank you for playing MTGO, and taking the time to tell us how you feel about it. As a player myself, I care so much about making this the best it can be.



 Thanks for the update Dave!

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All:
Just today, we have been putting the finishing touches on a targeting arrows solution. We believe that what is important is that players are clear in understanding which card/effect is assiciated with another card/effect -- and the Beta, as it currently stands, doesn't do this well enough. Arrows are one way of accomplishing this, but we believe there are less-cluttered ways of doing that. We hope you'll see the solution in the next month or two.



Thank you for bringing targeting arrows back! I'm sure you will find a way to improve them and do them in a less-cluttered way yet still make it clear what is targetting what.


We originally believed that a physical-3-ring-binder presentation of cards (while awesome and flavorful) had some scaling issues as well (see the tabs). However, there will be a stopgap measure very soon: a Sort function that orders cards the way they are presented in V3's "collection" view: By Set and Collector Number. I can't promise that the more flavorful physical-3-ring-binder presentation will come quickly, but I can definitely see your perspective here -- and we hope to add this view method in the future.



Thank you adding back a sort method by set and collector number but I definitely would like to see a binder collection view added back some day.  I'm sure you guys can come up with a solution to the tab scaling issue.  Perhaps having a fixed number of tabs and adding a previous/next tab set buttons. 
8<


As first posts go, that one was world class. Thanks and welcome to the forum. 

Thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated.

I should clarify that we have a solution that isn't exactly targeting arrows, but a much more clear method of understanding which card/effect is related to other cards/effects -- than we have now. I think you'll like it.
I liked the old arrows pretty well, but even if we don't get them back, whatever you've come up with almost has to be better than the current situation.  The arrows provided a clear visual path from any given action to its target, whereas the current situation on the beta doesn't really draw your eyes to targets, thus making you hunt for them.  It's really the big reason why I don't play paid events on the beta: the beta's interface forces me to burn more time from my clock than V3's, thus endangering my chances of success.
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I liked the old arrows pretty well, but even if we don't get them back, whatever you've come up with almost has to be better than the current situation.  The arrows provided a clear visual path from any given action to its target, whereas the current situation on the beta doesn't really draw your eyes to targets, thus making you hunt for them.  It's really the big reason why I don't play paid events on the beta: the beta's interface forces me to burn more time from my clock than V3's, thus endangering my chances of success.


I agree. I understand that some people felt that the arrows cluttered things up, but I'm not one of them. They were an elegant solution and I miss them dearly. And, yes, any new method of showing targeting is going to be superior to what's in the beta right now. That bar isn't exectly set very high.

Also, bring back the phase/step/spell/etc sounds. Some of us are auditory people. Without them, I feel lost a lot of time about what's going on. Not to mention that the game sounds dead.
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I would really love it if there was a page in the settings tab that allowed us to create a default layout for the duel screen (and probably a separate layout for multiplayer)

It bugs me that we are still being forced to lay out our cards in a specific way, things like the land shuffling when tapped (even if it's less noticable now) creature shuffling when attacking, zones hidden off to the side without *really* being able to manipulate them as much as we really should be able to. Honestly, we should have a massive number of options for how we want this screen to look and act. I personally play on a 24" Monitor at 1920x1200 and playing a game on the beta still feels really cramped.
I would very much like MTGO to correctly display the number of items I own. This has annoyed me for years.

I am enjoying this thread because it is slightly less negative than many of the others. I am one of those who is absolutely not of the opinion that the Beta is anywhere near ready to go, but I do hold out hope that it will be an improvement. For that reason, I'd like to thank Dave and his collegues for asking me for my opinion. Dave & collegues, please avoid the temptation not to wade through the reams of negativity. As I am sure you are aware, people are passionate about MTGO and there is a bunch of good stuff in there. 
This thread is for discussion of the feature article "Examining the Beta Redesign", which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I would like an option to create a binder with all cards not used in a deck. 

I have a lot of excess cards and am thinking about trading them, but doing so is made much more difficult by the fact that I cannot run a search for all cards not in a deck. A simple search logic function would fix this. 

 



I have done only drafts and sealed so far and only in the v3 client.  Thinking about building decks but always feels like I am short on cards I would want.

With that, I am curious if there is a similar feature for listing all the cards you need for decks you have built?  Maybe also listing all the cards you need to complete a set or a play set (4 ofs each card in the set)?  At one point I was thinking about doing the redemption but its a pain to figure out what cards I am missing.  Had to make a huge list and slowly check them off as I would get them.

As far as the binder goes, and option could be to only list sets or blocks you are interest in for your binder?  I really do like the seperation of the binder though at the same time see how bad the tab situation is.  Could also do something where you scroll over a tab it gets larger and the ones around it get a little bit larger so could tell what the tab is.  Another idea would be books based on the blocks.  Possibly a scroll or a wheel for the tabs?

On the trade side I would really like to be able to check off if I am looking for packs or certain cards rather than it be all free text search.  Also would like the ability to put up something for trade with a value of exactly what I want and if someone comes along I don't have to interact with them they can just trade.  Even if I am offline.  Same for if I am looking to use tickets to get some item can just put up what I am willing to buy with x tickets and people could sell to me.  Could be some kind of check box on the items/tickets for auto trade.  Maybe even allow it to be smart enough that if someone lists something for trade and another person lists it for buying and both the same price they just auto complete.  Though I guess that might too much taxing on the system for all the speculators who put caps on sell and buy.  At the very least allow for a better way to filter for what you are looking for than just all text.


I went and re-read this article from December 2012.  I enjoyed reading it a second time, it was very well-written and fascinating.  I read it back in December 2012, but I am a passionate fan of the BETA (in comparison to V.3), so I decided to go read it again.

I have one question to Wizards representatives.  In the context of the Collection scene the article mentioned:

"There are many more changes to the Collection scene, including the ways players manage their decks, set aside parts of their collection for trading, and change the ways their cards are displayed. Be on the lookout for further improvements in the coming months. With these changes, we believe the Beta Client will be a much better experience for the majority of players."

I have been vigilently watching for months since December 2012, but I haven't seen anything yet in terms of developments to the Collection scene.  Is anyone able to provide us with a helpful update on what we can look out for?

This would be much appreciated if so.
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