Weapon chart feedback

Here are a few suggestions

1. Club should do 1d6 not 1d4, otherwise you're better off using an improvised weapon.
2. Unarmed Strike does as much damage as a dagger.  unarmed striked should do 1d2.  
3. Quarterstaff does the same damage as a longsword. It should be 1d6 or the longsword should do 1d10.
4. The spear should be a versatile and thrown weapon(one or two handed) 1d6/1d8.
5. Battle axe should be versatile 1d8/1d10
6. hand crossbow damage should be 1d4
7. Double axe and double sword should be removed. Darth Maul died long ago.
8. Flail should negate shield bonus or have some other similar feature.
9. Halberd should do 1d10 slashing or 1d6 and piercing and its hook should allow for a grab or restained action.
10. Katanta should also be a Versatile weapon.
11. Spiked chain is not a finesse weapon
12. Trident should be versatile and improve parry attempts
13. War hammer should have a short thrown range.



This is the problem when when we lack weapon property and proficency bonus...
Alternatively, weapons can be differentiated by their ability to assist with combat actions (parry, trip, grab, charge, disarm etc)

It also wouldn't hurt to increase min weapon damages either.  For example, the morning star and the Broad Sword used to do 2d4.     I would have no problem with blades having a higher min damage.   The long sword could do 1d6+2 and that would make it a bit more deadly than a quarter staff at 1d8.

I think they are trying to keep the damage dice down to single die roll for the sake of simplicity.   


I think they gave the versatile property to so few weapons to see how it plays. If it works, it seems like several other weapons would be good candidates for this.

I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I would go even simpler. Choose bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing

One Handed: d8
Two Handed: d12

Properties:
Finesse: Reduce damage step
Reach: 2H only, reduce damage one step
Thrown: 1H only, reduce damage one step
 
I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I would go even simpler. Choose bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing

One Handed: d8
Two Handed: d12

Properties:
Finesse: Reduce damage step
Reach: 2H only, reduce damage one step
Thrown: 1H only, reduce damage one step
 



totally cool withthis idea. In this packet, weapon die matters only for a few level anyway

Maybe they could do something like fighters get d8 martial die with two handed weapon's offensive manuevers, and get shield users get d8 for defensive manuevers?

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I would go even simpler. Choose bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing

One Handed: d8
Two Handed: d12

Properties:
Finesse: Reduce damage step
Reach: 2H only, reduce damage one step
Thrown: 1H only, reduce damage one step
 


I'd be in favor of that as well.  Damage has never been about defining the character of a weapon; damage is about effectiveness as a weapon.  Since all the weapons are potentially lethal, they really should have about the same damage.  Let the character of weapons be defined by things like being able to use a whip to trip or disarm at range.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

When it comes to weapon stats, I prefer Gamma World's (4eD&D-based edition) or OSH's approach to all others, but within Next, I really do prefer the previous weapon list over this packet's list.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
For 'reach', maybe reduce accuracy, instead of reducing damage?
Also, for this packet, I suspect the intention is to show what the simplest “core” looks like, while more complex mechanics are optional.


1) A club is an improvised weapon.
2) D&D should not require d3s. d2 or leave it.
3) Quarterstaves are 2 handed though.
4) The spear in basic is a short spear or short javelin. Short Spears are one handed mostly.
5) Eh
6) that'll make it strictly worse than a shortbow.
7) I was watching cartoons with my cousin and it seems Darth Maul survived.
8&9) No complex nonspecial weapons in core
10) It could be a d6/d8 versatile weapon
11) It is in D&D
12) See 8&9
13) Light hammer exists

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I've been saying for a while now that "Versatile" should be a property that simply increases the weapon die size by 1 (just like racial weapon training) when shifting to 2-handed. And they would stack. So a dwarven fighter wielding a battleaxe 2-handed, takes it from d8 to d10 to d12.
I actually like 4E's +1 to damage.

Now bastard sword has d10 and takes up the longsword's job as the d8 sword.

Now if the bastard sword was two handed d10 and the long sword is one handed d8 versatile with a +1 damage two handed option....

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I've been saying for a while now that "Versatile" should be a property that simply increases the weapon die size by 1 (just like racial weapon training) when shifting to 2-handed. And they would stack. So a dwarven fighter wielding a battleaxe 2-handed, takes it from d8 to d10 to d12.


I agree. But maybe call it the “Heavy” property. So then it can apply to every kind of weapon that benefits from optionally using the offhand to help wield it.
I would NOT like the weapon list reduced down to properties and damage dice levels. 

That does NOT make for interesting weapon choices; it makes it read like a text-book or a chore.

HOWEVER, I like the logic of those dice and properties presented earlier. 

SO, I would suggest that that be the internal logic, and if a DM or player (with the profession- blacksmithing skill ;) ) wanted to design a new weapon, that sort of logic be presented as a rules module alongside the weapons tables, so if a particular weapon type isn't presented, it can easily be created for use.  GP costs should be included in that logic as well.

However, this current list has a lot of wonky things I would definitely change, and has lost a lot of iconic weapons from the previous packet.  I can only imagine they're testing two different trains of thought for the weapons system, and each playtest packet is testing our reaction in different ways. 

I see the value of both systems – having clearly defined simple/finesse/martial/superior/simple missile/heavy missile/superior missile was very good for organisation, and helped a lot with proficiency categories, but simple/martial/special weapons also makes sense because there were a number of weapons that didn't fit a specific category.  I'm missing having the weapon groups here and described, and some weapons went really wonky directions, like the clubs or swords or whip as described. 

Note that the logic presented and discussed above doesn't really take into account special weapons like blowguns or bolas or nets, or the currently missing garottes, but it shouldn't – special weapons should defy that logic system and aren't as easy to create because they act differently than other weapons.  Whips shouldn't be in that special category, in my opinion.  They shouldn't be two-handed, and strictly inferior to Spiked Chains – they should be one-handed, somewhat weaker versions of spiked chains. 

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

the currently missing garottes


I honestly have a hard time even imagining the garotte as a "weapon".  It's much more of a... tool?  It's just never really depicted as something you use to fight - it's something you use to accomplish a very specific task (choke/slice someone to death).  As a tool that interacted with grapples (or Assassinate or Sneak Attack, or whatever - so long as it's not class-specific), I think it would make more sense.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I've always seen it as an Assassin's weapon only, so I'm fine with that – it doesn't have to be class specific, but it does have to be maneuver/feature specific (certain features or maneuvers say "you can use this with a garrote"), and there should be some form of combat (such as grappling) that can use it without some sort of special opt-in beyond buying a garotte (though it doesn't mean you can use it EFFECTIVELY).

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

For 'reach', maybe reduce accuracy, instead of reducing damage?



...why?

I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I have a similar idea.

dexterity versus target dexterity weapons
Tiny Weapon (dagger) 1d4
Thin Weapon  (rapier) 1d6
Curved Weapon (katakana) 1d8

strength versus armor class weapons
Thrown Weapon 1d6 (throwing axe) (thrown weapons always do less damage than swinging or thrusting the weapons)  range 35 feet
Small Weapon 1d8 (shortsword)
Large Weapon 1d10 (longsword)
One-Handed 1d10 versitile Two-Handed Weapon 1d12 (bastard sword)
Two-Handed Weapon 2d6 (great sword)

Longhandled Weapon 1d6 (halberd) but AC+2 (they keep your foes at bay but you can't put all your strength into the swing or thrust)

Counts as 1 attack
sling 1d6
bolas 1d4 grapple
blow gun 1d6

Counts as 2 attacks if the shooter has a main and off-hand action
Strength Based Projectile Weapons add str to hit and to damage
short bow 1d8 ranged 600 feet 120 squares
long bow 1d10 ranged 1000 feet 200 squares

Counts as 2 attacks if the shooter has a main and off-hand action
Dexterity Based Projectile Weapons, add your dexterity modifier to hit and to damage
small One-Handed crossbow 1d10 800 feet 160 squares
large Two-Handed crossbow 1d12 ranged 1200 feet 240 squares

My D&D5E JavaScript Roll Tracker http://dnd5.weebly.com/

1) A club is an improvised weapon. 2) D&D should not require d3s. d2 or leave it. 3) Quarterstaves are 2 handed though. 4) The spear in basic is a short spear or short javelin. Short Spears are one handed mostly. 5) Eh 6) that'll make it strictly worse than a shortbow. 7) I was watching cartoons with my cousin and it seems Darth Maul survived. 8&9) No complex nonspecial weapons in core 10) It could be a d6/d8 versatile weapon 11) It is in D&D 12) See 8&9 13) Light hammer exists



I agree the club is an improvised weapon, but a club designed to be a club (with a metal ring or spikes) should do a bit more than a table leg.     1d4 is not enough damage.   My point was that an improvised weapon used two handed does more damage.  

I think there are several weapons that can be used one or two handed.    The spear is one of them.   A javelin is a specialized spear like weapon that should have a greater range than the spear.  

As for the hand crossbow, the short bow is a two handed weapon therefore it should do a bit more.    A hand crossbow shouldn't do more damage than a dagger either.   You'll most likely be using it to deliver poison anyway.   

As for the war hammer,  I always liked it when Wulfgar tossed his war hammer.    I don't recal it being a light hammer either.   

If they are going to include complex special weapons in the core they should get them right.  Otherwise I agree with you, leave them out. 

I didn't know darth maul survived that might explain things...   
 


I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I have a similar idea.

dexterity versus target dexterity weapons
Tiny Weapon (dagger) 1d4
Thin Weapon  (rapier) 1d6
Curved Weapon (katakana) 1d8




Sure you don't mean カタナ?

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

For 'reach', maybe reduce accuracy, instead of reducing damage?



...why?




Well, for one thing, weapons with reach are usually huge and heavy, like the twohander compared to a regular sword. Its hard to imagine it with *reduced* damage. Surely *increase* the damage.

For another thing, these big clumbsy weapons that aim at things beyond a comfortable reach, are more likely to miss the target.  
I'm not keen on big long weapon lists with clear advantages to specific weapons for a class. I like this idea from the forum, whci can;t remember where or who.

Basic = 1d6
Finesse = 1d6
Martial = 1d8
Heavy = 1d10
Two-handed = upgrade the die type.

Other then that you pick what your weapon looks like and that determines its type of damage. Wether THEY do this or not is irrelevant, because I will do it either way. It means that damage is just another representation of skill, and I'm all for that.



I have a similar idea.

dexterity versus target dexterity weapons
Tiny Weapon (dagger) 1d4
Thin Weapon  (rapier) 1d6
Curved Weapon (katakana) 1d8




Sure you don't mean カタナ?

I mean katana, yes.

katakana would be word spells, no?

My D&D5E JavaScript Roll Tracker http://dnd5.weebly.com/

haha, yeah.  I just was punching a joke in by writing katana in katakana.  I've never considered the two words in a similar part of my brain, despite being one character off, because they mean such different things, and katana is usually written in hiragana, not katakana.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

1) A club is an improvised weapon. 2) D&D should not require d3s. d2 or leave it. 3) Quarterstaves are 2 handed though. 4) The spear in basic is a short spear or short javelin. Short Spears are one handed mostly. 5) Eh 6) that'll make it strictly worse than a shortbow. 7) I was watching cartoons with my cousin and it seems Darth Maul survived. 8&9) No complex nonspecial weapons in core 10) It could be a d6/d8 versatile weapon 11) It is in D&D 12) See 8&9 13) Light hammer exists



I agree the club is an improvised weapon, but a club designed to be a club (with a metal ring or spikes) should do a bit more than a table leg.     1d4 is not enough damage.   My point was that an improvised weapon used two handed does more damage.  

I think there are several weapons that can be used one or two handed.    The spear is one of them.   A javelin is a specialized spear like weapon that should have a greater range than the spear.  

As for the hand crossbow, the short bow is a two handed weapon therefore it should do a bit more.    A hand crossbow shouldn't do more damage than a dagger either.   You'll most likely be using it to deliver poison anyway.   

As for the war hammer,  I always liked it when Wulfgar tossed his war hammer.    I don't recal it being a light hammer either.   

If they are going to include complex special weapons in the core they should get them right.  Otherwise I agree with you, leave them out. 

I didn't know darth maul survived that might explain things...   
 



Eh
Bump club to 1d6, hand crossbow down to 1d4m and make spear 1d6/1d8 versatile.

But an 8lb warhammer is nt a throwing weapn.

Yeah, according to my cousin. Maul survives and gets cybernetic legs.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

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