Embrace the skill die: Make fighting, shooting, and spellcasting skills

The skill die took me by surprise in the new packet.  At first I did not like.  Right now I am more on the fence. It did get me thinking that other aspects of the game might benefit from its use however. What if instead of a scaling bonus to attack rolls based on level, attacks used the exact same mechanic as skills?

We could have a fighting skill for melee combat, a shooting skill for ranged combat, and a spellcasting skill for spellcasters (and maybe a faith skill for the priestly types). If you are trained in these skills you add your skill die to your relevant ability roll when making attacks. This way the ability check, skill, and combat system are all one and the same.  Task resolution would follow a single unified mechanic.

The bonus from the skill die could also be applied to other areas of the game as well.  A warrior might utilize his "fighting" skill die to resist a grab, disarm, or knockdown attempt made by an enemy. Feats like Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will could allow you to roll your skill die with Str/Con, Dex, and Wis/Cha saves respectively.  

My 5e Homebrew Material

The 5e Warblade

The Hero: A Modular 5e Class

The problem with this is that everyone would always take the 'Fighting' skill in their 'background'. I am okay with unifying the mechanic but every class should have its own 'Attack Die' mechanic. Also, having Fighting and Shooting dice is breaching to close into the realm of Savage Worlds for my liking.

I wouldn't mind something as follows:

Skill Die
Damage Die
Attack Die
Spell Die

So every resolution is 1d20 + __ Die (if any) + Ability Modifier
Damage = weapon die + damage die (if any) + ability modifier

Still, the default in my opinion should be the simple d20 + ability modifier ... so these 'dice' should be given very conservatively and at a very modest pace. Meaning, characters should have few and narrow skills, some classes shouldn't get attack and damage die till later and the attack and damage die should increase at a slow pace.
Also, an Attack Die of d8, d10, d12 might cause problems with Bounded Accuracy (for those lucky rollers) so again, it needs to be approached with care.
Given the scaling (1->5 vs 1d4->1d12), it mostly works.

Hmm...  yea, i like it.  Especailly if you drop the ability mod to-hit.  Then your to-hit is simply 1d20+1dx.



Oh, you could also turn the ability mod into a roll.  Or would be able to if there was a d14, d16, and d18.... 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Also, an Attack Die of d8, d10, d12 might cause problems with Bounded Accuracy (for those lucky rollers) so again, it needs to be approached with care.

You can always change the bounds...  and hit/miss is binary, it doesn't care if you roll an 18 or 32 against 17 AC.  Only the %chance really matters.

Though you do get more of a bell curve with 2 dice.


Also, crits could turn into something like... "if you beat the AC by 10".

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Also, an Attack Die of d8, d10, d12 might cause problems with Bounded Accuracy (for those lucky rollers) so again, it needs to be approached with care.

You can always change the bounds...  and hit/miss is binary, it doesn't care if you roll an 18 or 32 against 17 AC.  Only the %chance really matters.




Given that the % change of d12 would have an average of around 6sh, I guess it would be roughly on par with the current max bonus of +5... I supposed. I'm sure someone in here can do the exact math.

Still intresting concept though, I like the added ramdomness and it just looks and feels more slick then stacking +X +X +X modifiers. Which is why I liked the advantage/disadvantage rule so much), I am always in favour of Dice tricks.
One problem I see with this are Damage Die, because something like 6d6 stacked on top of every damage roll can become a little much, I know the wizard always had to deal with that, but not every round.

Really, I would have to wait to playtest that part to see if it becomes a 'drag' . Some table top RPGs (such as The One Ring and A Song of Ice and Fire) rely on dice pools and they are still sucessfull games so I guess we will see.
Given that the % change of d12 would have an average of around 6sh, I guess it would be roughly on par with the current max bonus of +5... I supposed. I'm sure someone in here can do the exact math.

d4 = 2.5
d6 = 3.5
d8 = 4.5
d10 = 5.5
d12 = 6.5

Difference = 4.  Same as it is now.


I feel like calling it a proficency bonus and giving it names though.  Old school style.

Not proficent = no bonus.
Basic proficency = 1d4.
Novice proficency = 1d6.
Adept proficency = 1d8.
Master proficency = 1d10.
Grand Master proficency = 1d12.

Can be applied to weapons and/or skills.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The problem with this is that everyone would always take the 'Fighting' skill in their 'background'.



Not necessarily true.  A wizard gains very little benefit from having Fighting as one of their trained skills.  Yes their melee attacks will hit more often than one who is not trained in fighting, but without WDD their damage will be too insignificant to really matter.  Also, certain classes should get training for free.  A monk and fighter might get Fighting for free, the wizard spellcasting, and the cleric faith.  

If a class wants their background to include training in fighting, spellcasting, or so on I say why not? It only serves to open up RP opportunities.

I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable. You can be a 20th level Fighter, trained in climbing, with 20 Strength, and you can still fail a DC10 check. It gets worse with opposed skills, where your unlucky roll fails to beat your new 1st level apprentice at a simple test. There's also the strange math that the current implementation introduces - flattened math goes right out of the window again, with up to +12 available to skill checks. I also dislike that all characters improve at the same rate in all their skills - no matter when you acquire them.

Please, give us some customisation, keep to flattened math, and introduce reliability by a skill mastery like mechanic (a minimum dice roll). 
I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable. You can be a 20th level Fighter, trained in climbing, with 20 Strength, and you can still fail a DC10 check. It gets worse with opposed skills, where your unlucky roll fails to beat your new 1st level apprentice at a simple test. There's also the strange math that the current implementation introduces - flattened math goes right out of the window again, with up to +12 available to skill checks. I also dislike that all characters improve at the same rate in all their skills - no matter when you acquire them.



Bounded accuracy folks.
Given that the % change of d12 would have an average of around 6sh, I guess it would be roughly on par with the current max bonus of +5... I supposed. I'm sure someone in here can do the exact math.

d4 = 2.5
d6 = 3.5
d8 = 4.5
d10 = 5.5
d12 = 6.5

Difference = 4.  Same as it is now.


I feel like calling it a proficency bonus and giving it names though.  Old school style.

Not proficent = no bonus.
Basic proficency = 1d4.
Novice proficency = 1d6.
Adept proficency = 1d8.
Master proficency = 1d10.
Grand Master proficency = 1d12.

Can be applied to weapons and/or skills.

Yes, exactly. I was thinking something similar. But I would use optional titles.


L0-1 Layperson, Commoner
L2-6 Apprentice, Page, Jack, Student, Novice
L7-11 Journeyer, Squire, Bachelor, Professional
L12-16 Master, Knight, Expert, Sage, Sire/Dame, Sir/Madam
L17-20 Great, Grand, Arch, Archon, Lord/Lady
I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable. You can be a 20th level Fighter, trained in climbing, with 20 Strength, and you can still fail a DC10 check. It gets worse with opposed skills, where your unlucky roll fails to beat your new 1st level apprentice at a simple test. There's also the strange math that the current implementation introduces - flattened math goes right out of the window again, with up to +12 available to skill checks. I also dislike that all characters improve at the same rate in all their skills - no matter when you acquire them.

Please, give us some customisation, keep to flattened math, and introduce reliability by a skill mastery like mechanic (a minimum dice roll). 




Well it shouln't really break bounded accuracy (in theory) because your average as dicussed in this thread with a d12 is +6.5 which is pretty close to the current maximum of +5.



Given that the % change of d12 would have an average of around 6sh, I guess it would be roughly on par with the current max bonus of +5... I supposed. I'm sure someone in here can do the exact math.

d4 = 2.5
d6 = 3.5
d8 = 4.5
d10 = 5.5
d12 = 6.5

Difference = 4.  Same as it is now.


I feel like calling it a proficency bonus and giving it names though.  Old school style.

Not proficent = no bonus.
Basic proficency = 1d4.
Novice proficency = 1d6.
Adept proficency = 1d8.
Master proficency = 1d10.
Grand Master proficency = 1d12.

Can be applied to weapons and/or skills.

Yes, exactly. I was thinking something similar. But I would use optional titles.


L0-1 Layperson, Unskilled
L2-6 Apprentice, Page, Jack, Student, Novice
L7-11 Journeyer, Squire, Bachelor, Professional
L12-16 Master, Knight, Expert, Sage, Sire/Dame, Sir/Madam
L17-20 Great, Grand, Arch, Archon, Lord/Lady



I like it, for some reason it just looks more elegant then +3 to +7.
I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable.

You do get more reliable.  

The chance of  rolling 5 or less.
1d20 = 25% 
+1d4 = 12.50%
+1d6 = 8.33%
+1d8 = 6.25%
+1d10 = 5%
+1d12 = 4.17%

You just never eliminate the chance of failure.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

when I first began introducing my son to role playing games I used a variation on the theme discussed here. It helped him master some basic math skills (he was 7) and we used his playmobile as our minatures. I quit developing the system when D&D came out with the Next playtest.

I mention this because what you suggest is so similar to what i was doing before. the examples i give below are not what i was using with him before but are put into a perspective relating to this thread.  

examples:

fighter lvl 1
combat die 1d8 (die increase every 3 levels)
skill die 1d4 (die increase every 5 levels)
magic die 0 (no die)

rogue lvl 1
combat die 1d4 (die increase every 5 levels)
skill die 1d8 (die increase every 3 levels)
magic die 0 (no die)

cleric lvl 1
combat die 1d6 (die increases every 5 levels)
skill die 1d6 (die increase every 3 levels)
magic die 1d6 (die increase every 3 levels)

wizard lvl 1
combat die 0 (die increase every 5 levels)
skill die 1d4 (die increase every 3 levels)
magic die 1d8 (die increase every 3 levels)

ranger lvl 1
combat die 1d6 (die increase every 3 levels)
skill die 1d4 (increase every 5 levels)
magic die 0 (die increase every 5 levels)       

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

I like it a LOT.


Skills should improve as is. Fighter's, rogues, and monks should get a weapon attack die progression that works at the exact same rate as the current skill die progression. Wizards and clerics should get a spellcasting bonus die progression that works at the exact same rate as the current skill die progression. Clerics would get a 1d4 weapon attack die at level 6. They would get a 1d6 weapon attack die at level 12. All armor (and monster AC) should get a +1 bonus accross the board. Monks should get an AC of 11 + their Dex mod + their Wis mod. 
I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable.

You do get more reliable.  

The chance of  rolling 5 or less.
1d20 = 25% 
+1d4 = 12.50%
+1d6 = 8.33%
+1d8 = 6.25%
+1d10 = 5%
+1d12 = 4.17%

You just never eliminate the chance of failure.



Very well, you become fractionally more reliable, but when you're a grand master of heraldic knowledge, shouldn't DC 5 be an *automatic* pass by now? There's no real sense of progress as the die gets larger because the low end of the distribution changes marginally. I also thoroughly dislike that suddenly training becomes no match for having a superior ability modifier - no matter how much you've learned about heraldry as a 20th level knight, the intelligent wizard knows more on average, at worst and indeed at best.
I dislike the skill die. As you grow in skill, yes you can perform better, but you never become more reliable.

You do get more reliable.  

The chance of  rolling 5 or less.
1d20 = 25% 
+1d4 = 12.50%
+1d6 = 8.33%
+1d8 = 6.25%
+1d10 = 5%
+1d12 = 4.17%

You just never eliminate the chance of failure.



Very well, you become fractionally more reliable, but when you're a grand master of heraldic knowledge, shouldn't DC 5 be an *automatic* pass by now? There's no real sense of progress as the die gets larger because the low end of the distribution changes marginally. I also thoroughly dislike that suddenly training becomes no match for having a superior ability modifier - no matter how much you've learned about heraldry as a 20th level knight, the intelligent wizard knows more on average, at worst and indeed at best.




Skill supremacy: Gain advantage on a trained skill

Skill mastery: Treat all rolls of 10 or less with a trained skill as a 10.

Two feats that end your fears already exist. 
1d12 > 1d10> +5 stat > 1d8 > +4 stat > 1d6...

So high level training does surpass brute knowllage.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

1d12 > 1d10> +5 stat > 1d8 > +4 stat > 1d6... So high level training does surpass brute knowllage.



Novice with 18 Int: d20+d4+4 (average 17, minimum 6, maximum 28)
Master with 12 Int: d20+d10+1 (average 17, minimum 3, maximum 31)

So being trained, rather than talented, means that you are *worse* at trivial tasks, about the same at average tasks and can get beaten at the extreme end. The skill die *does not* interact with ability modifiers nicely *at all*.

As for the two feats mentioned above, great, concept taxes!
I'm ok with talent and training being somewhat equal, and with talent helping with the low end and training helping with the high end.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

1d12 > 1d10> +5 stat > 1d8 > +4 stat > 1d6... So high level training does surpass brute knowllage.



Novice with 18 Int: d20+d4+4 (average 17, minimum 6, maximum 28)
Master with 12 Int: d20+d10+1 (average 17, minimum 3, maximum 31)

So being trained, rather than talented, means that you are *worse* at trivial tasks, about the same at average tasks and can get beaten at the extreme end. The skill die *does not* interact with ability modifiers nicely *at all*.

As for the two feats mentioned above, great, concept taxes!




They aren't concept taxes at all.  If you want to show skill above and beyond just "being trained" you choose a feat. The skill die automatically scales with level so the only way two trained individuals of equal experience can have varying levels of skill is through those feats.
I'm liking this. It reinforces areas of expertise for each class while being coherent overall. Also it mitigates the swinginess of the single d20 roll by adding another dice. Think you are on to something here.
I don't like Skill Die for many reasons. Its just a Random Skill Modifier Generator.

All your Skills modifiers now augment with level by die size, as opposed to be selective through Skill Improvement as it was before. I enjoyed the former more than the latter and think its another customization method gotten away with.


I don't like the variance of die to demonstrate training. I think the randomness should be in the task reslution alone and not in the modifier as it is too swingy. Also, it can make the difference too slim or too large between trained vs untrained depending on how lucky you are.

And training factor should not rely on luck. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.

I agree with training individual skills though.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy. I agree with training individual skills though.




+1. As I said, I think making skill training a die is one of the things I have loved most about D&DN since the start. It is right up there with bounded accuracy. It is a core mechanic that I think is a MASSIVE improvement. 


Meanwhile, for those that want to help push statistics in their favor a little more, there is a feat that makes your min roll a 10, a feat that allows you to roll 2d20 and take the best result, and a class feature that allows you to roll 2 skill dice and take the best result. Between all those options, you can make your statistical probability quite high. 

@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.

Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone. 

It help for Rogue's Skill Mastery, but complicate things for everyone else. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.

Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone. 

It help Skill Mastery at low level only, but complicate things for everyone else at all levels. 




I think what he means by 2 dice is that you are rolling both a d20 and another die, not referring to Rogue skill mastery.  The use of Skill mastery as a die means that the roll probabilities favor a bell curve, since you have to have 2 good rolls to hit the top end, and 2 poor rolls to hit the low end.  The middle, meanwhile, will tend to occure twice as often (low d20, high skill/high d20, low skill).

The net resuilt is that skill dice will provide a chance to hit greater extremes in rare cases, but in general will actually make you, on the whole, more reliably able to hit your average expectations.
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@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.

Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone. 

It help for Rogue's Skill Mastery, but complicate things for everyone else. 

I double checked the math.

There is no change in swingyness in the middle (13 to 21 with a 1d20+1d12 vs 1d20+6).  You just strech out the low and high end.  (and a 2.5% shift since 1d12->6.5 and not 6).  It's still 5% for each point difference.

Didn't do the rogues.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The skill die took me by surprise in the new packet.  At first I did not like.  Right now I am more on the fence. It did get me thinking that other aspects of the game might benefit from its use however. What if instead of a scaling bonus to attack rolls based on level, attacks used the exact same mechanic as skills?

We could have a fighting skill for melee combat, a shooting skill for ranged combat, and a spellcasting skill for spellcasters (and maybe a faith skill for the priestly types). If you are trained in these skills you add your skill die to your relevant ability roll when making attacks. This way the ability check, skill, and combat system are all one and the same.  Task resolution would follow a single unified mechanic.

The bonus from the skill die could also be applied to other areas of the game as well.  A warrior might utilize his "fighting" skill die to resist a grab, disarm, or knockdown attempt made by an enemy. Feats like Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will could allow you to roll your skill die with Str/Con, Dex, and Wis/Cha saves respectively.  



Interesting.  I did not like skill dice when I first saw them but now I am embracing them.  I was suprised to see this thread when I sat down this morning after last night I worked on a spreadsheet for diffferent classes having their own Strike Dice mechanic. 

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

What i mean by swingyness is that you have more chances to not roll the average than to roll it, and if you end up more as not hitting the previously established static modifier, you are either below or above it.

Below it is worse for the PC as it would have been higher with a static modifier, and above is worse for Bounded Accuracy as it would have been lower with a static modifier.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Due to the way probability works, rolling multiple dice ad adding them together actually creates a bell curve where you are more likely to get numbers clustered around the center and only the extremes (which will be misses or hits anyway) are more swingy. It is decidedly less swingy to roll a d20 and a d6 and add them than to roll a d20+3.

Someone paste the probability curve please to demonstrate this.

Actually, think of d12 vs 2d6. About the same average but deviation from the average is much more common on the d12. So the d12 by itself is more swingy.
What i mean by swingyness is that you have more chances to not roll the average than to roll it, and if you end up more as not hitting the previously established static modifier, you are either below or above it.

That is false.

You have the exact same chance of rolling average, and the numbers around average (1d20+1d12 give 13 -> 21 all an exact 5% chance each).

It's only when you reach the edges that the chances start to stech out.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

@plaguescarred-
fortunately with the concept of modularity d&d players can choose which to take, static or die. Could even be done at each skill check.
I can imagine it now. The rogue has plenty of time to disarm the trap so they take the static bonus. Add the element of being chased by Orcs, the rogue decides to roll because he needs to succeed big on this attempt! Failure brings the same result...  

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

@plaguescarred-
fortunately with the concept of modularity d&d players can choose which to take, static or die. Could even be done at each skill check.
I can imagine it now. The rogue has plenty of time to disarm the trap so they take the static bonus. Add the element of being chased by Orcs, the rogue decides to roll because he needs to succeed big on this attempt! Failure brings the same result...  



I might agree with you.  I see your scenario as a DM tool and customizable via module or DM fiat.  If that is how you mean...players?

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Let the player decide how he wants to use his skill. Some players like to roll dice, some don't. Why should the DM dictate individuals play style?
As a DM I would always use static, as a player I want to roll dice. 

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

 I think what he means by 2 dice is that you are rolling both a d20 and another die, not referring to Rogue skill mastery.  The use of Skill mastery as a die means that the roll probabilities favor a bell curve, since you have to have 2 good rolls to hit the top end, and 2 poor rolls to hit the low end.  The middle, meanwhile, will tend to occure twice as often (low d20, high skill/high d20, low skill).

The net resuilt is that skill dice will provide a chance to hit greater extremes in rare cases, but in general will actually make you, on the whole, more reliably able to hit your average expectations.

Thanks i see now. I was leaving the d20 out which in fact help compensate.

While its good for the system, something in me doesn't like the idea of having to roll  to determine my attack bonus. Wink

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Let the player decide how he wants to use his skill. Some players like to roll dice, some don't. Why should the DM dictate individuals play style?
As a DM I would always use static, as a player I want to roll dice. 



I don't count on my players to swap out a mechanic for situational elements.  It is not about dictating a play style.  It is about adding randomness when the situation warrants it.  Like your scenario.  If a player at my table told me they were switching out a static bonus for a random roll because Orcus was chasing them this time, I would be impressed.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

What i mean by swingyness is that you have more chances to not roll the average than to roll it, and if you end up more as not hitting the previously established static modifier, you are either below or above it.

But this seems a good thing. To me, it feels more realistic.

I like the variability of the leveling boost (by adding a dice). I like the fact, sometimes sages just get it wrong (because they rolled low). Sometimes novices get it right (because they rolled high). That feels like life.

Along the same lines, I like the fact not every challenge becomes an autowin because the character is a high level − and the fact, a low level character still has a chance to succeed albeit slimmer, at something big.



Personally, I like minimalist mechanics. If I were designing the game, there would be one d20 for each player, and it would resolve everything. But this edition is going for a baroque feel, with each class having “unique mechanics” and so on. It is what it is. In this context, I can see the appeal of adding odd size dice to represent leveling increases, rather than static bonus numbers.