Assistance Needed! U/G Flicker Fog

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Creatures

4 x [C]Archaeomancer[/C]
2 x [C]Deadeye Navigator[/C] 
3 x [C]Mist Raven[/C] 
2 x [C]Craterhoof Behemoth[/C] 
3 x [C]Thragtusk[/C]
3 x [C]Clone[/C]
2 x [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C] 
2 x [C]Acidic Slime[/C] 

Spells    
 
3 x [C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]
2 x [C]Cyclonic Rift[/C] 
3 x [C]Ghostly Flicker[/C]
3 x [C]Druid's Deliverance[/C]
4 x [C]Tracker's Instincts[/C]
3 x [C]Farseek[/C] 

Land


9 x [C]Forest[/C]
4 x [C]Hinterland Harbor[/C]
8 x [C]Island[/C]

Sideboard

3 x [C]Fog Bank[/C] 
1 x [C]Druid's Deliverance[/C]
1 x [C]Creeping Renaissance[/C]
2 x [C]Dissipate[/C]
3 x [C]Sundering Growth[/C]
4 x [C]Fog[/C]
 
Main Goals   
 
Stall the game working down opponents life while maintaing field advantage through creature flicker and bouncing opponents field.

Main Synergy   [C]Archaeomancer[/C]+[C]Ghostly Flicker[/C] = Bounce Any Controled Creature

                          [C]Archaeomancer[/C]+[C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]+[C]Druid's Deliverance[/C] = Damage Prevention+Populate


Every creature in this deck benifits from being flickered or copied which alows it to be played a little differently each game.   
                          

 
Main Changes

2 x [C]Fog Bank[/C] Removed from main, moved to side, added 1 to side.
4 x [C]Farseek[/C] added to main to speed up early game granting advantage sooner.
2 x [C]Acidic Slime[/C] removed from main board and sideboard. Added 2 x [C]Elvish Visionary[/C] I would prefer to attempt somthing that actualy works. An instant speed draw power at a posible 2-3 Mana is quite viable. The acidic slime almost never occured in a game. Maybe 1-10 games was the synergy active.
4 x [C]Clone[/C] Added to main. The amount of utility in this one card is just awesome. Removed -2 [C]Elvish Visionary[/C] -3 [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C]
-1 [C]Clone[/C], -1[C]Cackling Counterpart[/C], -1 [C]Farseek[/C] +3 [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C] Decided that geting land drops and the ability to bounce them to insure mana is quite nice to have. And was running low on creatures.

12/22 - The deck took a turn for the worse with these changes, I reverted but kept a few of the things that worked.
-1 [C]Ghostly Flicker[/C] Didnt do much when I had two in hand and 1 [C]Archaeomancer[/C]. -1 [C]Farseek[/C] Needed to make sure I got my landdrops and Farseeks.+2 [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C] Gotta make sure the land drops every turn happen. +2 [C]Acidic Slime[/C] Needed that land control+artifact enchant hate.  
Side board stil up for matinance, made to focus mostly on graveyard hate artifacts+enchants and to stop heavy agro decks.
  

I like the idea here but I think that you should concentrate your efforts a bit. 


Also, I think you might need more land. I'll try to post a card list soon.

I'm curious though, how has the deck been working for you? It seems like a cool idea that could really be powerful. How have your games usually played out? Do you get to use the druid's deliverance AND the cackling counterpart often? What are you typical plays? Does the Fog Bank play an important role? You only have a 2 of the fog bank so that's why I ask.


What about the tracker's instinct? Does it help you dig effectively?

I've been working on this deck over the last month taking it to my local FNM. I've placed within the top 6 every time, out of about 20 or so people. The Fog banks are honestly just for a flying blocker other than the Mist Ravens but are not totaly vital, they do help against early agro zombies. The Druids Deliverance and cackling counterpart combo gets off about 80% of the games I play. The trackers instincts is one of the most vital parts of this deck. The reason being I'm only running creatures and instants and sorceries. Archaeomancer is able to bring back anything I need when it comes into play, and normaly I can dig using trackers to find one. Top 4, Flashback next turn top 4, mill another trackers to do another top 4, looking at the top 12 or so card of my deck normaly yields an archaeomancer and also milling the instants that I need to begin my synergy combo. Lets say I have my cackling counterpart milled and my Druids Deliverence milled also. I play Archaeomancer bringing back Cackling counterpart. I create a copy of it bringing back Druids Deliverence starting the turbo fog. Its an incredibly consistant deck in that way.
A normal game would play out somthing like this.

T1 Land Drop
T2 [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C]
T3 [C]Tracker's Instincts[/C]
T4 [C]Archaeomancer[/C]
T5 [C]Thragtusk[/C]


At this point I have quite a few different routes I can take. I can begin to swing using my Thragtusk to get some damage, I can start a fast recovery process depending on what my life total looks like by bouncing or [C]Cackling Counterpart[/C] my Thragtusk. Any time my creatures are targeted I bounce them in response to the targeting nulling the effect neting me more life and a token. A field clear could hurt the synergy but next to that not much will, which if I have a Mist Raven on the field I just bounce both my Archaeomancer and the Mist Raven targeting the Archaeomancer with the raven to return it to my hand and the Ghostly Flicker before the field effect happens. From here on I just continue to build field strength beating away at there life flickering my creatures when they target or at the end of there turn to net me a larger and larger advtantage. I try to continue to mill myself through the use of Trackers instincs to build up more control through the use of Mist Ravens and Cyclonic Rifts. 

This deck can win in some weird ways somtimes. I've won by just flickering and beating down using Mist Ravens. Play one, return a creature, next turn play another, returning a creature. On there turn use Ghostly flicker returning two more creatures. On my next turn Cackling counterpart returning another creature. Druids Deliverence, populate, returning another creature. Thats just one creature in this deck. I could be doing the same thing but with a Thragtusk, or even if I need land for whatever reason a Gatecreeper Vine (Or Adidic Slime)

Creatures

4 x [C]Archaeomancer[/C]
2 x [C]Deadeye Navigator[/C]
2 x [C]Fog Bank[/C]
3 x [C]Mist Raven[/C]
2 x [C]Acidic Slime[/C]
2 x [C]Craterhoof Behemoth[/C]
3 x [C]Gatecreeper Vine[/C]
3 x [C]Thragtusk[/C]
2 x ???

Spells   

3 x [C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]
2 x [C]Cyclonic Rift[/C]
4 x [C]Ghostly Flicker[/C]
3 x [C]Druid's Deliverance[/C]
4 x [C]Tracker's Instincts[/C]

Land


9 x [C]Forest[/C]
4 x [C]Hinterland Harbor[/C]
8 x [C]Island[/C]


Main Goals   
 
Stall the game working down opponents life while maintaing field advantage through creature flicker and bouncing opponents field.

Main Synergy   [C]Archaeomancer[/C]+[C]Ghostly Flicker[/C] = Bounce Any Controled Creature

                          [C]Archaeomancer[/C]+[C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]+[C]Druid's Deliverance[/C] = Damage Prevention+Populate


Every creature in this deck benifits from being flickered or copied which alows it to be played a little differently each game.   
                          
 

I'm trying to decide on my last two card slots. I have a few different thoughts on what the options could be.

[C]Faerie Impostor[/C] - A turn 3 drop on Gatecreaper Vine for more land ramp/Field clear Denial with any of my bounce to save Archeomancer.

[C]Farseek[/C] - Land ramp

[C]Mwonvuli Beast Tracker[/C] - Search for my Acidic slime
 
[C]Dungeon Geists[/C] - Perma Shutdown of large creatures and with the use of flicker locking down any large threats.

+1 [C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]/+1 [C]Druid's Deliverance[/C] -  Adds to the Populate infinate turbo fog combo.

Thoughts apreciated. Not totaly sure which route to go, I removed my 2x Think Twice just beacuse most of the time they didnt see much play. Sideboard ideas appreciated too.




Hey ben it's josh.

Anyhow, I think those two spots should either be:

2 Dungeon Geists

OR

+1 Fog Bank
+1 Crackling/Navigator
 
OR

+3 Farseek
-1 ??? (Something...)
Decks I play: Modern: R/G Tron B/w Soul Sisters EDH: Gisela Midrange Edric Tap em down n' Swing Karrthus, the dragonlord Kaervek, the troll. Standard: The Aristocrats
Oh hey. While the Geists are nice, I decided if I was going to add them I may as well just run a playset of the Mist Ravens instead. They just tap down creatures. Fog Banks are nice but not needed so much if I can get the flicker effects happening fast enough. Navigator is becoming less and less needed in my deck. While they are handy, I only need two beacuse of the mana cost and the ability to draw them using the Trackers Instincts.
[C]Cackling Counterpart[/C]  is looking like a good option for one of the spots and if I do that I may as well run a 4th [C]Druid's Deliverance[/C] Farseeks while are nice are pointless in my deck beacuse all they alow me to do is search for an Island one time. With the Gatecreeper Vines I can search for any land besides my Hinterland Harbors and I can bounce them to get more land if needed or copy them if I really need the land bad or have an Archaeomancer in hand. Thinking I'll go with the Cackling Counterpart + Druid's Deliverance for the last two spots. Will see what others sugjest though.

Hey Ben,


I hadn't looked at your feedback yet but I came up with this



23 Lands


Although since the Deliverance/Counterpart combo works so well for you I'd say -3 Farseek for the +3 deliverance's. 


The only real thing I see missing are the Conjurer's Closets. They'll let you do work without having to flicker, saving you some cards and allowing you to fetch more from the yard.


Also, I threw in the visionary but it seems like the tracker's instinct does much much more for you so better to keep the trackers in. +4 Tracker's Instinct -4 Elvish visionary.


I threw in a dissipate and bramblebush because it seems like it would really help you control the board before stuff hits the board rather than waiting for things to hit the board and then reacting. I threw in the bramblecrush because it can kill lands and planeswalkers. With the closet, you might get some ridiculous board control with it.


Cool deck. Let me know what you think.


Forbidden Alchemy was also a thought but it looks like you're always looking for the archaemancer anyway and the instinct flashes back too so no need for the alchemy after all.


oh, one more thing. 


I got rid of the big craterhoof and the deadeye. I'm not sure how much you rely on them though. The craterhoof I think you can definitely get rid of no problem. The deadeye might be more useful though.


I think that if you have trouble with flyers you could always put Aerial Predation in.

Hey Ben,


I hadn't looked at your feedback yet but I came up with this



23 Lands


Although since the Deliverance/Counterpart combo works so well for you I'd say -3 Farseek for the +3 deliverance's. 


The only real thing I see missing are the Conjurer's Closets. They'll let you do work without having to flicker, saving you some cards and allowing you to fetch more from the yard.


Also, I threw in the visionary but it seems like the tracker's instinct does much much more for you so better to keep the trackers in. +4 Tracker's Instinct -4 Elvish visionary.


I threw in a dissipate and bramblebush because it seems like it would really help you control the board before stuff hits the board rather than waiting for things to hit the board and then reacting. I threw in the bramblecrush because it can kill lands and planeswalkers. With the closet, you might get some ridiculous board control with it.


Cool deck. Let me know what you think.


Forbidden Alchemy was also a thought but it looks like you're always looking for the archaemancer anyway and the instinct flashes back too so no need for the alchemy after all.



I like the idea of [C]Conjurer's Closet[/C] beacuse it would add in that no cost flicker on my end step. With Archaeomancer I would be able to grab some control for on there turn such as a Dissipate. Only issue with Conjurer's Closet is its an Artifact. Meaning I would have to change up my draw power so I didnt mill it. I enjoy having Deadeye Navigator beacuse of its soulbond ability. When its soulbonded to anything in this deck it breaks horidly. Imagin Thragtusk with the ability 1C1B Flicker. When I play a Deadeye I will have 6 mana. Thats 3 Flickers for Thragtusk or anything its bonded to. Thats a net of 3, 3/3 Beasts, and 15 Life for a total of 6 mana a turn. Cant beat that. I really like Bramblecrush. Its a nice card that can get rid of planeswalkers and annoying enchants and whatnot. Dissipate would be great too. Just trying to fit them in would be difficult. Posibly droping Fog banks for dissipates could be good but it does leave me open for early.

oh, one more thing. 


I got rid of the big craterhoof and the deadeye. I'm not sure how much you rely on them though. The craterhoof I think you can definitely get rid of no problem. The deadeye might be more useful though.


I think that if you have trouble with flyers you could always put Aerial Predation in.




The closet may be a nice idea. But the craterhoof is one of his win cons. Maybe I'd say maybe get rid of 1?

So...

+3 Conjurer's Closet
-1 Craterhoof?
Decks I play: Modern: R/G Tron B/w Soul Sisters EDH: Gisela Midrange Edric Tap em down n' Swing Karrthus, the dragonlord Kaervek, the troll. Standard: The Aristocrats

oh, one more thing. 


I got rid of the big craterhoof and the deadeye. I'm not sure how much you rely on them though. The craterhoof I think you can definitely get rid of no problem. The deadeye might be more useful though.


I think that if you have trouble with flyers you could always put Aerial Predation in.


Craterhoof is my late game win condition. This deck can ususaly stall quite hard and with a populate going Craterhoof has won me plenty of my games beacuse of the massive beatdown. 1/3 Games are won by it. The turn I play Craterhoof isnt always the turn I win. It can be the turn after when I flicker it 3 times using archaeomancer and ghostly flicker for a very large beatdown.
Aerial Predation is a neat card. I've never seen that one. Not sure how I could add in the Conjurer's Closets...With Trackers Instincts going I'm likely to mill it. Only chances of getting it is in the Draw phase or the starting hand. Posibly just a dead milled card if not. Very useful if it got into play though. If only Forbiden Alchemy didnt cost black for its flashback...and cost so much.

hm? good point on the craterhoof. I can see it's power now.


Do you only need one though? Maybe you can put in a Revive to fetch him if you end up milling him. or maybe Make a Wish, although it's random and probably won't fetch you the craterhoof if it's a 1-of type of card.

or what about Creeping Renaissance. It could work for both the craterhoof, the artifact, and deadeye navigator if you mill them. I mean, it seems to me that with the instinct fetching the archaemancer quite consistently you can afford to put in a reduced number of many of the other cards.
or what about Creeping Renaissance. It could work for both the craterhoof, the artifact, and deadeye navigator if you mill them. I mean, it seems to me that with the instinct fetching the archaemancer quite consistently you can afford to put in a reduced number of many of the other cards.

[C]Creeping Renaissance[/C] Now thats a nice card with all the mill action. While it only returns the card to my hand for a large cost...it returns alot of cards to my hand. [C]Revive[/C] Is another really good option. Creeping Renaissance would work good to be able to run a Conjurors Closet. Even if I dont run it I think I'll definatly be considering running Creeping Renaissance...Depending on what I mill or even after a strong field clear that could be very powerful in a mid to late game recover/win.


23 Lands



Bramblecrush might not be necessary really but I think that Creeping Renaissance would be awesome. Especially if you get caught unaware's with a board sweeper. You can name creatures and get them all back and start over. You can fetch the artifacts if you need. And you can get back pretty much anything that isn't an instant/sorcery.

Good luck with the deck. it looks really cool. Let us know how it does against the meta in your area. I think RDW would pose trouble but against other midrange/control decks this looks pretty good.


23 Lands



Bramblecrush might not be necessary really but I think that Creeping Renaissance would be awesome. Especially if you get caught unaware's with a board sweeper. You can name creatures and get them all back and start over. You can fetch the artifacts if you need. And you can get back pretty much anything that isn't an instant/sorcery.


Thanks for all the ideas and help
No problem. I know you were only looking to fill one card slot but hopefully the ideas help you. The closet and the renaissance would be awesome here.
haha, the renaissance can even fetch lands that you might've milled. awesome card.
Yup the land grab is nice if its going into a stall battle or somthing, Just to add more fuel to my flicker.
I've been working with a few versions of this deck for a while now. I've found the following:

-deadeye navigator is not an utility card, he's a finisher.  as awesome as he is for stalling the opponent out, you're better off using him to set up your wincon.  You want to flicker the value pig? Great! Do it at your opponent's end of turn, untap, then drop your craterhoof (great wincon, btw) 

-archeomancer rocks the house.  If you're going to abuse him, you should try to squeeze a couple of extra utility spells in.  I'm thinking farseek at least. I'm currently testing mind sculpt out of the sideboard for all of those sphynx's revelation decks and it seems to be eliciting the appropriate number of table flips.

-this deck has huge problems with burn-based aggro decks like rdw/rakdos.   These decks can put lethal on the board before you can stabilize.  Once again, farseek helps.  A turn 4 thragtusk verses. Turn 5 thragtusk is the difference between a steamroll and a chance.

keep us posted on your progress, I love this concept.
Next thing you will tell me Browbeat is bad.

Do you guys have any ideas for Thragtusk replacements? Building this deck would be cheap if not for the hinterland and the tusk.


If you take out those two cards then the price drops to about $17.

Thragtusk is vital. Without it, it removes early beatdown, lifegain and the 3/3 Beast tokens that can be populated. Not really sure what you could replace it for, or why you would.
I like the deck, seems like it would be a lot of fun to pilot. I have to admit I'm rather fond of the closets being in there.
I don't suppose you've tried Nephalia Smuggler. Just an idea as i was looking through gatherer. probably not better than the closet though cuz it's a creature.
Roaring Primadox might fit in the deck, it would be a little mana intensive but you could always use his effect to throw him back into your hand. He is also a 4/4 so he could also do some hurting for you.
My worry with Roaring Primadox is that you have to keep playing your creatures or he'll eventually return them all to your hand. And if he's your only creature in hand/play he is a bit useless because you can only block with him and either he dies or he goes back to your hand anyway, not letting you play other things. I think he's a bad version of the flicker effect.
Primadox's ability is mandatory.  Your opponent can use it to force you to bounce creatures you need at inconvenient times.  Plus having to recast your creatures weakens your position against counter magic.

if you want to use roaring primadox, you might want to look at garruk's packleader And some sort do big green shell.  Goodness knows there are enough green creatures  with power 3 or greater...
Next thing you will tell me Browbeat is bad.
While Primadox is a nice card, replaying cards defeats the purpose of flicker. Unneeded card.  I have concidered [C]Nephalia Smuggler[/C] for a nice little 1/1 for a turn 1 drop, but really no place for it in the deck. At a 3C1U per flicker, and it taps to gain the effect...it just doesnt do very much for me for that cost. Mostly beacuse it taps.

@Ben_Marsh,


Yeah the Nephalia Smuggler isn't really grand. He's an option but is way more fragile in my opinion. No room for him either. 


Oh well. I was actually able to trade for a few of the pieces for this deck this past week. I need thragtusks :-( .


I also need the archaemancers and instincts but they're not wallet breakers. That's why I asked about a possible replacement.

I would never do this, being that I have the Thragtusks to run in this deck, but you could try [C]Tree of Redemption[/C]. Keep your life total at 13 all the time. Whenever you use tree, just flicker it with [C]Ghostly Flicker[/C] + [C]Archaeomancer[/C]. Just an option if you wana try.
Had a funny game with this today.

T1 Forest
T2 Island, Farseek
T3 Forest, Archaeomancer(Grabing Farseek) (Land Count 4)
T4 Gatecreeper Vine, Farseek, Forest
T5 Clone to Archaeomancer grabing Farseek, Hinterland Harbor, playing Farseek (Land Count 8)
T6 Now unfortunatly my friend was running his deck that had 5 field wipes in it. He preceded to dominate the field through field destruction for the next few turns lol. But my point being, I can craterhoof quite a bit faster now and get my synergy lockdown going crazy fast with just a few cards.    
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