Can someone explain Hit Dice as if I was 5 years old?

I don't know what I am missing, but I can't seem to figure out exactly what the new (or old) playtest packets are talking about here:


Note Hit Dice (HD).
A character who rests can use Hit Dice to recover hit points.  A character gets one Hit Die per level.
The die’s type is determined by class (and sometimes other features).
Record the number and type of Hit Dice.

I am used to 4e (it that helps with any background).  Basically, my questions are:

Are Hit Dice like surges?  You roll and get a certain number you can use per day?
Can you use as many HD as you want during a rest?
Do you just roll your hit dice after a rest and regain the number of HP that came up on the dice? 

HD are like surges.   You spend (roll) them durring a short rest to heal (with a med kit) to heal (+con mod).


They scale by giving you more to spend, and not really by % of hit points.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Your number of Hit Die are like your number of surges per day. When something lets you spend a hit die (such as using a healing kit during a rest) you roll the die and gain that many hit points (instead of a pre-determined number). Once the hit die is expended, it does not refresh until a long rest (like 4e surges).

I am used to 4e (it that helps with any background).  Basically, my questions are:

Are Hit Dice like surges?


Yes and no. They're like surges in that they're a 'natural healing' mechanic that you use after a short rest (though IIRC it's not called that) and refresh daily.  They are different from surges in that they're not proportional.  Each HD is one die of healing.  At 1st level or 30th level a healing surge is 1/4 your hps, but you always have the same number of them (unless your CON increases enough); a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.

It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...

You roll and get a certain number you can use per day?
Can you use as many HD as you want during a rest?

You can use as many as you have, which is one per level.


Do you just roll your hit dice after a rest and regain the number of HP that came up on the dice?

Yes, but they're a daily resource, so if you roll them all after a rest, you have none left until you take an extended rest or whatever they call a good night's sleep in the packet.

 

 

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They are different from surges in that they're not proportional.

They mostly are.

You get about 80% of your max HP in HD.  It more or less stays that way.  Though high Con people will get more, low Con people will get less. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

They are different from surges in that they're not proportional.

They mostly are.

You get about 80% of your max HP in HD.  It more or less stays that way.  Though high Con people will get more, low Con people will get less. 



Only if you look at the self-healing function of HS - which is actually a minor one, contrary to general belief, since self-healing is quite inefficient in 4E so players tend to avoid it if they can.
HS are a normalised measure of the PCs health. As suche they regulate the pacing of the game: when you are low on HS that means it's time to stop and rest (since the vast majority of healing in 4E requires spending HS).
They are quite different concepts.
 a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.


It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...



So after a fight, I can roll my HD to heal for free?  But only once a day?

On a different note, if I have a Healer's Kit, I basically get 20 rolls of my Hit Die? 
 a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.


It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...



So after a fight, I can roll my HD to heal for free?  But only once a day?

On a different note, if I have a Healer's Kit, I basically get 20 rolls of my Hit Die? 


Not quite for free because you have to expend a use from your healer's kit.  Otherwise, yes, for free.  Also, you can use your HDs more than once a day, but it's a daily pool you draw from.  If you use two HDs to heal after your first fight (Having at least 2 HDs requires that you be at least 2nd level), then you don't have access to those two HDs again until you take a long rest.  However, if you had any HDs remaining after spending those first two (for example, you were level 3 and had 1 HD left), you could use your remaining HDs later in that same day.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Thanks for the input guys.  That cleared up things very well.

Just another thought though.  With the Healer's Kit, I can heal 10 allies for 25cp (or 2.5 silver)?  Seems like nearly free healing and unlimited surges.  I rest, get up and walk around, and rest again ...

 
Thanks for the input guys.  That cleared up things very well.

Just another thought though.  With the Healer's Kit, I can heal 10 allies for 25cp (or 2.5 silver)?  Seems like nearly free healing and unlimited surges.  I rest, get up and walk around, and rest again ...

 


Unlimited surges if you have unlimited time.  Your HDs per day are equal to your level.  That's roughly equivalent to having 2-4 of 4e's surges per day (assuming no Con bonus).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Hit Dice are the number of dice (d8) you roll to determine monster HP....oh wait... I'm still confused...


Hit Dice are the number of dice (d8) you roll to determine monster HP....oh wait... I'm still confused...




Hehe.  It makes me feel a little better that I am not the only one who is confused here.

Unlimited surges if you have unlimited time.  Your HDs per day are equal to your level.  That's roughly equivalent to having 2-4 of 4e's surges per day (assuming no Con bonus).




Not trying to be niggling here, I just want to make sure we are on the same page.

So, basically if you have a D6 (wizard) as your HD, you can spend 10 minutes (and one use of a Healer's Kit) to heal 1d6HP.  Spending an hour resting you could heal 6d6 Hit Points which should heal just about any level 5 wizard fully?

Unlimited surges if you have unlimited time.  Your HDs per day are equal to your level.  That's roughly equivalent to having 2-4 of 4e's surges per day (assuming no Con bonus).




Not trying to be niggling here, I just want to make sure we are on the same page.

So, basically if you have a D6 (wizard) as your HD, you can spend 10 minutes (and one use of a Healer's Kit) to heal 1d6HP.  Spending an hour resting you could heal 6d6 Hit Points which should heal just about any level 5 wizard fully?


A level 5 wizard only has 5 HDs for the day (all level 5 characters have 5 HDs for the day), and could thus only heal a max of 5d6 HPs.  You could spend all 5 at once, or spend some then spend the others later.  You regain all of your HDs after a long rest.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

So, basically if you have a D6 (wizard) as your HD, you can spend 10 minutes (and one use of a Healer's Kit) to heal 1d6HP.  Spending an hour resting you could heal 6d6 Hit Points which should heal just about any level 5 wizard fully?

If you have a level 6 wizard, then you have six Hit Dice per day and the size of each Hit Die is a D6.  

When you spend 10 minutes to use a healer's kit, you can spend any of your remaining Hit Dice for that day to heal 1d6 per Hit Die that you spend.  If you've been beaten to a bloody pulp, and you only have one use left in your healer's kit, then maybe you want to spend all six of your Hit Dice at once to heal 6d6 HP.  If you're barely injured, down maybe 5 HP of your total 30 HP, then maybe you only want to spend 1 Hit Die to heal 1d6 HP.

In any case, once you spend a Hit Die to heal, it's gone for the day.  The only way to recover spent Hit Dice is with a long rest.

The metagame is not the game.
All right.  Those last two post clear it up.  Thank you for being patient.  It was not clicking (even though it is now very clear).

"During a rest, you can spend one use of the healer’s kit to allow up to ten characters under your care to spend any number of their Hit Dice."


I was reading that to mean that 1 use of a kit = a free roll of the dice (which wouold be basically unlimited healing).  Now that I look at it again, I see that it specifically says spend a surge.

So if you have no urges a use of the Healer's Kit will heal nothing, and you are SOL.

That raises another question though.  Now you can drink unlimited potions of healing?  (If you have the gp to fund them)


That raises another question though.  Now you can drink unlimited potions of healing?  (If you have the gp to fund them)



Yes. In fact, previous packets had a Healer specialty that allowed players to create max-effect healing potions cheap. Which, I suspect, would have led to the traditional 3E sheaf of CLW wands being replaced by Camelbaks full of healing potion.

In the current packet, it's been replaced by the Mystical Healer specialty, which allows you to cast some healing spells daily. 
"Hit dice" is a really, really stupid name that means "healing surges."  (The name itself comes from 3rd Ed., where it also made no sense.)  They work exactly like healing surges in every way, except you get a random amount of healing (which is bad) instead of a static amount (which is much better).  We have houseruled them to be a static amount of healing (the average of your roll).  (We also call them healing surges.)

The trick, as you've noted, is that technically you're supposed to use a healer's kit to be able to use them.  We've never done this.

Also, healing potions cost the in-game equivalent of buying a new car, and should be much cheaper (maybe 1 gold or so).
"Hit dice" is a really, really stupid name that means "healing surges."  (The name itself comes from 3rd Ed., where it also made no sense.)  They work exactly like healing surges in every way, except you get a random amount of healing (which is bad) instead of a static amount (which is much better).  We have houseruled them to be a static amount of healing (the average of your roll).  (We also call them healing surges.)

The trick, as you've noted, is that technically you're supposed to use a healer's kit to be able to use them.  We've never done this.

Also, healing potions cost the in-game equivalent of buying a new car, and should be much cheaper (maybe 1 gold or so).



No, hit dice originates from AD&D.  It's a stupid name that is only creates confusion.  As an old school gamer I often get the term confused.     

Regardless, I really don't like surges/hit dice and I won't be including them in my games.


Thanks for the correction - I didn't realize this stupid term was that old!  Wow, that's 30+ years of a confusing name that doesn't mean anything!  
Thanks for the correction - I didn't realize this stupid term was that old!  Wow, that's 30+ years of a confusing name that doesn't mean anything!  



Yes, I dont' know why they had to reuse a term that would only end up confusing people.  It makes no sense to bring back the old school players and then confuse them.

In my mind, Hit dice are still the number of d8s you roll for monster hit points.     Each monster was expressed in terms of HD, even spells only affected creatures with X HD.     

Technically they could introduce it again because the monsters still include the Hit Dice rolls.  For example, a bugbear has 4 HD or (4d8) hit points.



Yes, I dont' know why they had to reuse a term that would only end up confusing people.  It makes no sense to bring back the old school players and then confuse them.


Because some people (note, not saying you're one of them) would throw a hissy if healing surges were brought over from 4e and actually called healing surges.  Of course, I recall some people throwing a hissy about HDs too (again, not saying that you're one of them).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Yeah.  This seems to be the most confusing thing about Hit Dice.  At level 4, you have 4 that you have rolled for your current HP.  Nothing about healing here.  For monsters, it is the same.  Why use the same term for healing?

I kind of look at it the same way I look at levels.  Why can't a level 2 wizard cast a level two spell?  That would make more sense.  I don't mean that in the sense that a level 3 wizard should get Fireball (a current level 3 spell), just that it might be better to give the spells something other than a term that is already used for something else and means something very different.