4e Dwarves and the hobbit

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Anyone else think 4e dwarves when they saw the hobbit?  I mean in general with their beard styles and armor?

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

i disliked the "gully dwarf" style to most of them.
rude, mass burping, breaking things, and acting like jerks while singing about bilbo, and to bilbo... the equivilant to "u mad bro?" in his own house. the singing overall irratated me.

the dwarven city was great
the depiction of the first dwarven king was great 
thorin was great 
the mass orc/ dwarf battles were great
dwarf weapons armor and additional props were great

their actions against the elves in rivendale did nothing for me.  

i may be a bit biased though, at my gaming table, there is a problem that every player who gets his hands on a dwarf turns into john belushi from animal house. it doesn't matter if im the dm or not, or if the player is male or female. most of my players are very intelligent but the moment they get that dwarf pc, they turn him into a drooling rude axe idiot.
the addition of a dwarf pc in our game is usually a game breaker, thus dwarves are my first outrite ban in 18 years of gaming.
i fear this depiction of dwarves acting like funny fools might entitle my players to think that dwarves are supposed to be that way.
  
the dwarves didn't break a single thing in Bilbo's house.  They ate, he railed at them for eating all of the food in his stores (they were told by Gandalf that food would be provided for all) and as a way of saying thank you, they did the dishes, cleaned up the eating area.  I think you might be racist against dwarves ! lol.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Gully dwarves are hardly dwarves...

And well I like how they treated the elves. Then again I don't like elves. They tend to act too high and migthy.

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Anyone else think 4e dwarves when they saw the hobbit?  I mean in general with their beard styles and armor?



To the OP there were quite a few epic moments that made me think of DnD during the movie.  The attitude, looks, acts of the dwarves was part of it sure.

I just like at the end how Gandalf shows his true Leader colors by using a healing word !  Totally wizard MC cleric !  Maybe even Wizard | Cleric hybrid ?  Using staff / sword as an implement. 

I totally liked to see the origin of the weapons though, how they found them and used them.  How they were already renowned, like finding a rare or artifact in DnD.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

the dwarves didn't break a single thing in Bilbo's house.  They ate, he railed at them for eating all of the food in his stores (they were told by Gandalf that food would be provided for all) and as a way of saying thank you, they did the dishes, cleaned up the eating area.  I think you might be racist against dwarves ! lol.




i think its milli and killi who walk in and scrape their boots on bilbo's mothers furniture, then bilbo hears a crash from the pantry and runs into them stealing all of his food. a point of view shot from the bare and empty pantry reveiled a broken ceramic peice lonely on the shelf. they blunt his silverware as they sing their stupid song, and eat him out of house and home at a time that he didn't even know he was going to say yes to this adventure. and eating a hobbits stockpile empty is a well known sign of blatant rudeness =D 

in the elf city, the fat one breaks a bench. another insults the elven musicians by plugging his earhole device. one dwarf digs through the salad like food bare fisted and acts like a jerk complaining there is no food in that salad.  the youngest dwarf refused to eat anything "green" most of that would get you slapped in the back of the head by their respected dwarven hearth mothers and shield maidens.


thorin ( my favorite dwarf in the movie) even has his moments of jerk-dom, so much so that gandalf leaves the party twice. and as he left he noted the stubborn nature of dwarves.

no, i love stioc, honerable, loyal, practical, profiecient and battlehardened dwarves.
i just despise comical gully dwarves. (any comedy in a dwarf really.)
if you see the dwarf/orc battle, all those dwarves are great.    


on another note, wasn't that dwarf city amazing? 


Anyone else think 4e dwarves when they saw the hobbit?  I mean in general with their beard styles and armor?



To the OP there were quite a few epic moments that made me think of DnD during the movie.  The attitude, looks, acts of the dwarves was part of it sure.

I just like at the end how Gandalf shows his true Leader colors by using a healing word !  Totally wizard MC cleric !  Maybe even Wizard | Cleric hybrid ?  Using staff / sword as an implement. 

I totally liked to see the origin of the weapons though, how they found them and used them.  How they were already renowned, like finding a rare or artifact in DnD.




gandalf = best dmpc ever. 



i think its milli and killi who walk in and scrape their boots on bilbo's mothers furniture, then bilbo hears a crash from the pantry and runs into them stealing all of his food. a point of view shot from the bare and empty pantry reveiled a broken ceramic peice lonely on the shelf. they blunt his silverware as they sing their stupid song, and eat him out of house and home at a time that he didn't even know he was going to say yes to this adventure. and eating a hobbits stockpile empty is a well known sign of blatant rudeness =D 

in the elf city, the fat one breaks a bench. another insults the elven musicians by plugging his earhole device. one dwarf digs through the salad like food bare fisted and acts like a jerk complaining there is no food in that salad.  the youngest dwarf refused to eat anything "green" most of that would get you slapped in the back of the head by their respected dwarven hearth mothers and shield maidens.


thorin ( my favorite dwarf in the movie) even has his moments of jerk-dom, so much so that gandalf leaves the party twice. and as he left he noted the stubborn nature of dwarves.

no, i love stioc, honerable, loyal, practical, profiecient and battlehardened dwarves.
i just despise comical gully dwarves. (any comedy in a dwarf really.)
if you see the dwarf/orc battle, all those dwarves are great.    


on another note, wasn't that dwarf city amazing? 




I like a degree of comedy in dwarves, but I like it to be more sarcastic. And to be honest dwarves and elves really don't get along. Their cultures are too different. There is a reason that they don't like their music, and why they wont eat a piece of lettuce. They just aren't accustomed to doing so. Personally I'm a dwarf person, they are my favorite fantasy race (2nd is Human, and 3rd is Gnome). I can totally see the dwarves doing that as the dwarves also have a reason for not liking them. They left their people to die and their stronghold to be taken. Dwarves have a very serious attitude when it comes to honor, friends, and family, and would kill if anyone even threatened one of those. Elves to me are just plain stuck up. Every description of elves I've read makes them seem like vain, impatient, rash, d-bags.

Edit: The fat one is Bombur, and he didn't mean to break the bench if you remember correctly. 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Ah, more good reasons not to watch this movie.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.


i think its milli and killi who walk in and scrape their boots on bilbo's mothers furniture, then bilbo hears a crash from the pantry and runs into them stealing all of his food. a point of view shot from the bare and empty pantry reveiled a broken ceramic peice lonely on the shelf. they blunt his silverware as they sing their stupid song, and eat him out of house and home at a time that he didn't even know he was going to say yes to this adventure. and eating a hobbits stockpile empty is a well known sign of blatant rudeness =D 

in the elf city, the fat one breaks a bench. another insults the elven musicians by plugging his earhole device. one dwarf digs through the salad like food bare fisted and acts like a jerk complaining there is no food in that salad.  the youngest dwarf refused to eat anything "green" most of that would get you slapped in the back of the head by their respected dwarven hearth mothers and shield maidens.


thorin ( my favorite dwarf in the movie) even has his moments of jerk-dom, so much so that gandalf leaves the party twice. and as he left he noted the stubborn nature of dwarves.

no, i love stioc, honerable, loyal, practical, profiecient and battlehardened dwarves.
i just despise comical gully dwarves. (any comedy in a dwarf really.)
if you see the dwarf/orc battle, all those dwarves are great.    


on another note, wasn't that dwarf city amazing? 




I like a degree of comedy in dwarves, but I like it to be more sarcastic. And to be honest dwarves and elves really don't get along. Their cultures are too different. There is a reason that they don't like their music, and why they wont eat a piece of lettuce. They just aren't accustomed to doing so. Personally I'm a dwarf person, they are my favorite fantasy race (2nd is Human, and 3rd is Gnome). I can totally see the dwarves doing that as the dwarves also have a reason for not liking them. They left their people to die and their stronghold to be taken. Dwarves have a very serious attitude when it comes to honor, friends, and family, and would kill if anyone even threatened one of those. Elves to me are just plain stuck up. Every description of elves I've read makes them seem like vain, impatient, rash, d-bags.

Edit: The fat one is Bombur, and he didn't mean to break the bench if you remember correctly. 




i favor elves/gnomes/fey, and i attribute my growing hate for dwarves that almost directly to my players and others. 
my players also feel the common anti elf vibe and hate everything even remotely elven, in turn they act out by turning dwarves uber macho and superior masculine jock-minded bullies who kick dirt in the face of every elf/fey pc/npc every chance they get.
its rare that i hear anything but elf-hate even on these forums.
i dont' think its a stretch to say i'm a minority for my elf/eladrin/fey love. =)

 our regular gaming table has not met for a year because of this empasse.

because you don't like the way they treat your elven NPCs?  I'm an elf fan, but I dont think that being surrounded by a bunch of dwarf fans would be a problem.  Hell, I play a drow at the moment, that goes over reaaaal well lol

That being said, I'm not a fan of how dwarves are portrayed as comic relief.  I'd prefer they are all more like Thorin in the movie, rather then more like Bombur.  Tough and Macho don't have to mean crude.

i favor elves/gnomes/fey, and i attribute my growing hate for dwarves that almost directly to my players and others. 
my players also feel the common anti elf vibe and hate everything even remotely elven, in turn they act out by turning dwarves uber macho and superior masculine jock-minded bullies who kick dirt in the face of every elf/fey pc/npc every chance they get.
its rare that i hear anything but elf-hate even on these forums.
i dont' think its a stretch to say i'm a minority for my elf/eladrin/fey love. =)

 our regular gaming table has not met for a year because of this empasse.




Sheesh, maybe its time to take it all a bit less seriously. My guess is the problem here is more that some of your group are just not the "play a serious game" types and want to joke around and have some fun while they play an enjoyable game. Try playing a more lighthearted tone for a while and see where it goes. Maybe once everyone has it out of their system they'll hanker for a change. Beyond that maybe that group is just not a good group and should stay apart. Not every group of folks makes a good table.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
because you don't like the way they treat your elven NPCs?  I'm an elf fan, but I dont think that being surrounded by a bunch of dwarf fans would be a problem.  Hell, I play a drow at the moment, that goes over reaaaal well lol

That being said, I'm not a fan of how dwarves are portrayed as comic relief.  I'd prefer they are all more like Thorin in the movie, rather then more like Bombur.  Tough and Macho don't have to mean crude.

In all fairness Tolkien portrayed the dwarves in a fairly light-hearted way in The Hobbit. It was sort of a serious tale, but it was also humorous in tone. Bombur was certainly there for comic relief...
That is not dead which may eternal lie
the hobbit was also meant to be a children's story.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)


i favor elves/gnomes/fey, and i attribute my growing hate for dwarves that almost directly to my players and others. 
my players also feel the common anti elf vibe and hate everything even remotely elven, in turn they act out by turning dwarves uber macho and superior masculine jock-minded bullies who kick dirt in the face of every elf/fey pc/npc every chance they get.
its rare that i hear anything but elf-hate even on these forums.
i dont' think its a stretch to say i'm a minority for my elf/eladrin/fey love. =)

 our regular gaming table has not met for a year because of this empasse.




Sheesh, maybe its time to take it all a bit less seriously. My guess is the problem here is more that some of your group are just not the "play a serious game" types and want to joke around and have some fun while they play an enjoyable game. Try playing a more lighthearted tone for a while and see where it goes. Maybe once everyone has it out of their system they'll hanker for a change. Beyond that maybe that group is just not a good group and should stay apart. Not every group of folks makes a good table.



exactly. our issues are a bit deeper then team dwarf and team elf.
we are far better not at a gaming table, and distant. our play styles/ethics/ in real life personalities/politics are far too different to co exist at a table.   
i have use ventrilo and continue to play online with another group unrelated to the local one for many years. we use chat as the "gaming table" and vent to discuss ooc issues while typing out a near flawless story in txt. but i am derailing the thread too far.

back on topic: i think that the dwarves presented in the movie who are not the adventuring party are cool and similar in description to what the OP stated, and the movie would have been better if the dwarf personalities were less cartoony. they do have a similar artisitc feel to 4.0 dwarves, which is a good thing.
 my stance on anti dwarven humor could again be my own biased feel. i was expecting more of the same them from the lord of the rings trilogy, and got something too light hearted and playful for my taste.
to put what i'm talking about in perspective, the dwarves made a hobbit from pippins family line look stuffy and un-fun.

because you don't like the way they treat your elven NPCs?  I'm an elf fan, but I dont think that being surrounded by a bunch of dwarf fans would be a problem.  Hell, I play a drow at the moment, that goes over reaaaal well lol

That being said, I'm not a fan of how dwarves are portrayed as comic relief.  I'd prefer they are all more like Thorin in the movie, rather then more like Bombur.  Tough and Macho don't have to mean crude.




i agree with everything you said =) 
Remember that dumb song was in the book.
I am sad that 15 birds was left out.

The city dwarf fashion and archetecture was very much like the PHB.
William O'Conner's art I think, probably inspired by older artist's interpretations of Tolkein.

Great Goblin was "Bruce" from finding Nemo.  "-Ello"

For me the biggest D&D4E moment was Radagast the Brown doing a solo skill challenge. Heal, Nature, Religion, Arcane, 3 failures and the looming threat of combat starts.         
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I absolutely loved the movie. I can't imagine anyone that plays D&D that wouldn't... Where else are you going to see such a rich fantasy world come to life. And it's a valid point that The Hobbit was meant to have a different tone from the story to come later. I loved the dwarves, the hobbits, the goblins, the orcs and the rest because when was the last time that you got to see dwarves, hobbits, goblins and orcs on the big screen? And our group thought it was cool that Gandalf spent a Daily in the suprise round on the goblins!
I absolutely loved the movie. I can't imagine anyone that plays D&D that wouldn't...



Yo.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Elaborate?
Elaborate?



I saw the first LotR movie.

Hated it.  Long, dull, boring, and about halfway in I was hoping someone was going to come along and eat those annoying little b****** hobbits.  I was rooting for Sauron just because the protagonists were all annoying.

Skipped the next two movies, skipping this one, skipping the two after that.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The problem with LotR...is that...is really boring book, and there isn't much the movies can do about it without enraging the hardcore fans (and they still got hardcore fans very angry at them)...the characters are boring and dull by today standard...and if a character driven story have boring and dull characters...it fails...

The only good things are the visual direction and the fights...two towers and return of the king have a huge chunk of the movies being a huge and epic battle of inmense proportions...but it's kinda shallow experience because the plot and characters are so boring and uninteresting.
Elaborate?



I saw the first LotR movie.

Hated it.  Long, dull, boring, and about halfway in I was hoping someone was going to come along and eat those annoying little b****** hobbits.  I was rooting for Sauron just because the protagonists were all annoying.

Skipped the next two movies, skipping this one, skipping the two after that.



I wouldnt judge this movie on the merits of the first ones.

For one the hobbit is a whole different kind of story, the prince who would be king in this new one is much better than Arragorn from the other movies.  In general this movie was fun, humorous and had much more to the story it seemed.  though YMMV. 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

Uh, pretty sure Salla won't like the Hobbit, if only because of the incredibly deliberate "we need to make this a trilogy" pacing. On the other hand, the 'party' in the Hobbit is proactively on a quest, as opposed to the reluctant Fellowship. Bilbo is also far better suited to the adventuring life than Frodo.

The look of the dwarven armor, weapons, and strongholds did have a striking resemblance to the 4e dwarves. Smile
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
Ah, more good reasons not to watch this movie.

Well, to be fair, most of that was in the novel

I like that the dwarves in the film are different from eachother! I shows that you can have different personalities within the same race. They are not clan dwarves either, they have no home and are wandering dwarves, that may have affected them and their culture a lot too. There will be rough and tough dwarves later on, just wait and see in the battle of seven armies, or what it was called, but I guess that`s in the third film.

Anyways, we have to remember that dwarves are fictional creatures, so it will always be someones interpretation of them! Dwarves and drow from dnd are not like dwarves and dark elves in norse mythology. Even Tolkien interpreted mythical creatures to fit them in his world, so did Gygax and Arneson, so did Peter Jackson, as are every dm and dnd-group.
Uh, pretty sure Salla won't like the Hobbit, if only because of the incredibly deliberate "we need to make this a trilogy" pacing. On the other hand, the 'party' in the Hobbit is proactively on a quest, as opposed to the reluctant Fellowship. Bilbo is also far better suited to the adventuring life than Frodo.

The look of the dwarven armor, weapons, and strongholds did have a striking resemblance to the 4e dwarves.



That also is a big thing, the active quest part of it makes it much more focused.  

Thoyugh I too am a bit dissapointed that it's going to be a trilogy, I thought that a 2 parter would have been good enough.  but we'll see how it goes. 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

To the OP, I think the dwarfs depicted are very interesting visually, and it´s nice that every dwarf is different, and have different skills and personalities. The ancient dwarven city is amazing, the overal look of the dwarfs in very D&D 4E like. The depiction of elfs is very nice. It´s cool to see in the screen a version of a story that has influenced D&D from it´s roots.

The books can be slow for todays standards, the story has a very simple straight forward structure, reminds me a lot of a D&D adventure, the movie itself is not slow imo, maybe some of todays audience got used to movies being too fast, in this regard Peter Jackson is very old school, and it doesn't bother me.

The fact that Bilbo has to sign a contract to be part of the group remind´s me a lot of our my D&D adventures. Laughing