12/18/2012 Feature: "Magic Online Programs Update: MOCS, MOPR, and More"

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+1,000,000 what harpist said
I made an account just so I could post in favor of retaining 4 pack sealed. I echo everything harpist said as well; I will not be playing in the phantom events and will now have nothing to jump to when drafting the set becomes stale. I really hope they reconsider this change, as it means I will be playing a lot less limited on magic online in the future.
So first off, great post - read it all, agreed with bascially the whole thing.

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />My main issue with this is, why can they not have both? Or at least a trial period with both, if the phantom is clearly the more popular then drop the 4 booster. Just plain taking one away is quite a sting to the many players that enjoy the format.



To be fair, from WoTC's side too many offerings tend to split the playerbase and slow down firing rates and cause not only confusion (and later regret) for newer players who'd get the needed materials for one only to find out it's not firing, because the other is far more popular.   It's hard in this particular scneario (which includes a phantom draft) but imagine if the phantoms were more popular, and you were the newb who didin't realize those 4 packs you just bought won't get used - this can be frustrating.

It's a weak argument, IMHO, but it does exist - i just thought I'd point it out because it's been used before.

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I wanted to add to my earlier thoughts. I don't just play 4pack because I it's the least -EV limited event (though that is certainly part of it), I play it because I legitimately enjoy it, and the fact that it usually runs quicker than a draft means I can usually fit one in even if I have a busy day. We've got pages of support here and on other forums, please reconsider this decision.
I think Chris is saying the phantom events are a success because the cube events were a success.  I do not think that phantom sealed events will be successful.  I play sealed events to build my collection.  Phantom events would be a waste of my play time.  I used to play the TNMO limited events before they were phantom.  I have not played one since.

I've been reading Bukka077's comments and am getting a bit upset with his comments.  Things like you dont know what you are talking about and banning cash grab.  Are you, Bukka, involved in the Wizards/Hasbro business decision meetings?

The 4 pack sealed are where I have told new MTGO players to begin online.  It gets you 4 packs of cards that you get to keep/trade and you have a good chance of getting a pack or 3.

Don't get rid of my favorite format on MTGO.

 

MOCS:  Positive changes. I like that 15 QPs let you enter prelim tournys, and the fact that accumulating QPs give you more than just byes now. Also, those that earn in the 50+ range will have something additional to use them for.

MOPR:  Indifferent.  I usually just buy 4x of them on the secondary market for 2 or 3 tix each month anyways

4-BOOSTER SEALED GONE:  Contrived reasons to take away an event that noone wants to see go away, like "likely to be imbalanced and suffer from degenerate strategies", "thirty-card decks are not a standard size and the client does not handle them well", and "quite often this confusion leads to players using forty-card decks in the format".

The quick poll tally from postings in this thread:

Number of people who like 4-booster events going away:  1
Number of people who want 4-booster events to stay:  73,291

LEAGUES: "pre-planning for Leagues is officially underway". Wow, 5 years and we are already up to the pre-planning stage.


PREDICTION:  All limited events will be phantom within a few years, (yes, I'm serious) and new cards will be added to the system only by ripping boosters.  I can see signpost up ahead, and this is the road we are on...



   
I made an account just so I could post in favor of retaining 4 pack sealed. I echo everything harpist said as well; I will not be playing in the phantom events and will now have nothing to jump to when drafting the set becomes stale. I really hope they reconsider this change, as it means I will be playing a lot less limited on magic online in the future.



Well i just logged in to post a comment also on the 4 packs sealed. First Its true that the format is not the best (30 cards does tend to favor milling) but i do enjoy sealed. I actually prefer the 6 pack sealed but 4 packs were good because 1- It fires on demand 2- takes 3 round instead of four 3- gave out more than draft in prizes and you opened an extra pack  4- You could try different things compared to 6 packs. Like Milling which is rarely used in any formats exept here.. you tend to play differently with 4 packs

I never played a phantom event and really i never will (except for cube as i believe that phantoms events were made for that )

I just hope that players will ignore the format and we can go back to the 4 pack sealed events.

PREDICTION:  All limited events will be phantom within a few years, (yes, I'm serious) and new cards will be added to the system only by ripping boosters.  I can see signpost up ahead, and this is the road we are on...



Then should also predict that the phantom events will do badly until they offer power 9 as the prize for winning them, and also the only way to get power 9 is winning a phantom event.  Then they get declared a success for everybody rushing for the prize.

MOCS:  Positive changes. I like that 15 QPs let you enter prelim tournys, and the fact that accumulating QPs give you more than just byes now. Also, those that earn in the 50+ range will have something additional to use them for.


MOPR:  Indifferent.  I usually just buy 4x of them on the secondary market for 2 or 3 tix each month anyways.


4-BOOSTER SEALED GONE:  Contrived reasons to take away an event that noone wants to see go away, like "likely to be imbalanced and suffer from degenerate strategies", "thirty-card decks are not a standard size and the client does not handle them well", and "quite often this confusion leads to players using forty-card decks in the format".


The quick poll tally from postings in this thread:


Number of people who like 4-booster events going away:  1
Number of people who want 4-booster events to stay:  73,291


LEAGUES: "pre-planning for Leagues is officially underway". Wow, 5 years and we are already up to the pre-planning stage.



PREDICTION:  All limited events will be phantom within a few years, (yes, I'm serious) and new cards will be added to the system only by ripping boosters.  I can see signpost up ahead, and this is the road we are on...



   

PREDICTION: This move is going to tank hard and we will be reading articles in the future talking about how they realized that players keeping the cards was integral to the play experience in the Limited formats.

Perhaps the motivating factor here is that they are effectively discounting packs for the sealed events. A four booster sealed currently brings in 128 dollars/tickets (if everyone buys in with 16 tickets or directly purchased packs). They dispense a total of 44 packs (4 packs for each of 8 people plus 12 in prizes), which works out to $2.91 of revenue per pack opened (all will be opened at some point presumably). An eight player 3 pack draft (at 14 tix) results in $112 in revenue and 36 packs being opened for revenue of $3.11 per pack opened. Obviously, $5.33 per pack opened is far better than $2.91 (almost double) if they can continue to draw in players. Fewer cards on the secondary market would likely mean more boosters being purchased. It is easy to see that this was a bean counter decision and that all of the "reasons" given are bluster.

More phantom events will send trade values on the best cards sky high, pushing competitive Constructed decks beyond the means of many users and causing an overall decline in play. Limited play will decline first and Constructed play will follow.
I'm very sad to see 4-Booster Sealed go. It was the only limited format I played on MTGO regularly and I will not be participating in the phantom sealed events.
Starting with the new MOCS, I think the overall change is good, however it could encourage bizarre behavior that may not be the goal of WotC. What I mean is if the promo is worth a decent amount (so the force of will is a perfect example) people are going to want to play in all pre-lims. Here are some cases (all of which I think are completely plausible by some sub-set of the players):

1. Get 95 QP's. You can than play risk free in all pre-lims and still play in the final. If you do well you can get 5 foil copies and 1 regular copy (6-0 all 4, get the freebie, T-64 the final). You could also end up with just the freebie one.

2. Get 25 QP's, and get a 5-1 or 6-0 in the first pre-lim, enter the next 3, get a 5-1 or 6-0 in one or more for the finals, and get multiple promo cards.

3. Get 60 QP's, enter all 4, 5-1 or 6-0 one or more for the finals plus extra promo cards.

With the case of FoW being at 120 tickets (there is some argument that is not actually the value that it is, but it is much higher, but it just will not sell higher so it has a ceiling) you might be able to sell them at 100 a pop (also consider it seems quite likely vintage will be added and with the P9 classic should see some level of surge so more will want FoW). That means that it might make much more sense to try and increase the number of promos received instead of putting all in on the finals. This process of course is far less effective if the value of the promo is less, and it somewhat depends on the number of promos then put out. In short, I feel the change is overall good, but it may have some bizarre consequences.


Bug, or feature? I think it is nice there is an incentive to keep earning QPs (from someone who earns 15 about once a year). However (1) depending on the schedule, playing all four may be unreasonable (2) allowing people to use the overflow QPs may just move the too-large event issue to the prelims.

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As somebody who played 4 pack sealed regularly I hate the change.  People who play limited either want the cards for collections or to trade for tix for more events.  The new phantom events have no future.  As for the value of the events relative to other options its just terrible and obviously and offensively so.
[As far as I can tell, this is the only place we are allowed to discuss four-pack sealed going away, all the other threads devoted to just this topic are getting locked.

Below is something I already posted in a soon-to-be-locked thread].

I really like 4pss. Its all I play other than Release Events and Classic limited events.

I think the real reason they are going away is that they don't make enough money for Wizards. Part of the problem is that it canablizes other (more profitable) events. And, there are people who want to buy packs from the store and crack them for the cards. Some might say that these people aren't very smart. They more clever ones will open these packs in a 4pss and get to play with them some and possibly get an effective store discount because of the packs they can win in the process.

I think they underestimated the popularity of this format. I'll bet if they could go back in time and do them all over again, they would cost a ticket or two.
Theoretical questions for all the four-booster supporters:

1) Would you play if they kept four-booster sealed but added two tickets to the entry (to bring it in line with other events)?
2) Would you play in non-phantom 6-booster sealed queues? (These did horribly before the invention of 4-booster, but the MTGO landscape was different back then)

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If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
If they somehow made the prize support in line with the extra 16 tickets entering the system, sure.
They are taking away 4 pack sealed because the community team lost the community cup.

I knew that was going to lead us down a Sorrows Path...

True Story :D 
Theoretical questions for all the four-booster supporters:

1) Would you play if they kept four-booster sealed but added two tickets to the entry (to bring it in line with other events)?
2) Would you play in non-phantom 6-booster sealed queues? (These did horribly before the invention of 4-booster, but the MTGO landscape was different back then)



1) I would. Would I play as much as I do otherwise? No, but I would still play them. I genuinely like the format difference.

2) It would depend on the structure, if it was 3 round, I might on occasion. If it and 4 booster were up at the same time however, I would not.

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Theoretical questions for all the four-booster supporters:

1) Would you play if they kept four-booster sealed but added two tickets to the entry (to bring it in line with other events)?
2) Would you play in non-phantom 6-booster sealed queues? (These did horribly before the invention of 4-booster, but the MTGO landscape was different back then)



1. Yes. I play limited to crack packs. Adding 2 tix entry to cover for prize support is perfectly reasonable.

2. Yes, absolutely. I would take this over option #1. The obstacle for me in trying to play the scheduled sealed events is that they are only offered at certain times that don't always line up with my schedule, and that they are 4 rounds, which is way too long for me to be at the computer in one sitting. Three rounds is the perfect length for me to play an event after I get the kids to bed and still get myself to bed at a decent time.

I don't know how the old 6-pack sealed swiss on-demand games went, but I would go for 28 tix, or 6 packs + 4 tix, to play 3 rounds swiss pairings, and have 2 packs per match win. Like taking a swiss draft and doubling the recipie.
So having had all day to reflect here is where I am now.

MOCS changes are good. as someone who gets around 12 QP every month without trying this may be enough incentive to get me to try.... when I want the Promo card that is...

I hope that this is the first of a year of all good promos... I actually think it just became a little more likely that this is how the P9 come out....

What I don't like is:
No changes yet to eternal magic or drafts.

I've been talking aobut the changes needed for Eternal for a long time... and I think this FoW promo will *help* as will the legacy MOCS... but I don't think this will be enough to make interest in the format stick... Wotc OP needs to come up with regular high level eternal tournaments if they want to see eternal thrive... I was really hoping that they would be announcing some of these initiatives now...

as to drafts..... I have been crying for 64 man drafts (of the latest set only) to be added to the rotation for quite some time... and now that I really need QP to qualify for this MOCS.... I have to play modern or standard if I want the best chance (I hate sealed)... if they had 64 man rtr queues I could get 3 QP for winning instead of 1.... I'd prefer to draft my way...  I've also wanted a 4 ticket 6-4-2-2 draft option (or 5-2-1 swiss for 3 tic or countless other variations that combine a real profit for first place with a flatter payout)

no QP for two weeks!!! man I have off 6 days straight and have a lot of tix earmarked for UUU queues but I won't be getting any QP for them.... this SUCKS. check my play history... I play less when QP are not available. just give us 5 weeks to qualify for this MOCS
Calavera on MTGO I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours! Things that I want to see changed on MTGO: 1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events. 2: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts. 3: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible. 4: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly! 5: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper 6: Power 9! 7: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic) 8: Program Split option back in! 9: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp) 10: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor. 11: Bring leagues Back!
The explanation wizards gives for eliminating 4 pack sealed is ridiculous. 

4 pack sealed can have a lot of variance, more than a lot of other events, but it also is a very streamlined, very fast way of playing limited that just doesn't exist in other formats. And it's fun. More fun, in fact, than regular 6 pack sealed IMO. Most of all, it's  the best value out there to play limited while simultaneously building a collection to use in constructed on MTGO, period, which is why they're removing it. Money, money, money. Don't release two articles back to back in one week on how MTGO is changing and striving to make players happy and then take away an incredibly popular format. If I want to practice my 6 pack sealed without keeping the cards I crack, I can do it for free elsewhere online, and everybody else can too, and we all know this. THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO PLAY THESE PHANTOM SEALEDS WHATSOEVER. I just started playing 4 pack sealeds in the last couple months or so, and as a result, my time logged into the program has shot up. However, my time on MTGO will be severely limited after Dec. 26th. 
The explanation wizards gives for eliminating 4 pack sealed is ridiculous. 

4 pack sealed can have a lot of variance, more than a lot of other events, but it also is a very streamlined, very fast way of playing limited that just doesn't exist in other formats. And it's fun. More fun, in fact, than regular 6 pack sealed IMO. Most of all, it's  the best value out there to play limited while simultaneously building a collection to use in constructed on MTGO, period, which is why they're removing it. Money, money, money. Don't release two articles back to back in one week on how MTGO is changing and striving to make players happy and then take away an incredibly popular format. If I want to practice my 6 pack sealed without keeping the cards I crack, I can do it for free elsewhere online, and everybody else can too, and we all know this. THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO PLAY THESE PHANTOM SEALEDS WHATSOEVER. I just started playing 4 pack sealeds in the last couple months or so, and as a result, my time logged into the program has shot up. However, my time on MTGO will be severely limited after Dec. 26th. 


I think we have a new candidate for Worst Justification in the thread.

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Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
1) Would you play if they kept four-booster sealed but added two tickets to the entry (to bring it in line with other events)?
2) Would you play in non-phantom 6-booster sealed queues?

1) Yes, I would play four-pack sealed even if they cost a couple of tickets. But, I probably wouldn't play in as many. I like that its a different format and some strategies are stronger there than in other limited formats. I also tend to accumulate packs when they are cheap with the intention of using them later. I just wouldn't accumulate so many packs if the events cost more.

2) I'm assuming this would be a 3 round swiss event. This depends on how many tickets it cost and the prizes.  I can't imagine these not costing tickets, I'd expect 2 tickets. If these were ticket-only (i.e. you couldn't use packs to enter), I wouldn't play in any of them.

I just can't figure out what sort of prize structure would be viable yet close to the current four-pack sealed payout (5/3/1 for 9/6/3 points). A 7/5/1 payout?

It would also depend on how often these fired. If these didn't fire very often I would soon forget about them.
FTR, since I know the WotC staff read this... I won't touch phantom limited queues with a 10-foot pole. Half the reason to play limited is to build your collection. Phantom product defeats the purpose of playing limited.

Cube is the one exception to that rule. I don't play cube because cube tix are not tradeable. I'm acutually going to play my first MTGO Cube with the 10 free cube tix I'm getting for playing in the beta client over the weekend. I can justify spending 2 event tix for drafting phantom P9 while not getting a prize of any value to me. (I would go so far as to suggest to WotC that they do away with cube tix and lower the number of event tix needed to play the cube. If cube tix are non-tradeable and only useful in multiples of 10, then forget it.)

If they take away 4-pack sealed for good, then I'm just going to play swiss draft. If I'm lucky and can actually carve out the time to play a four round scheduled sealed event, I'll do that... But, it seems unlikely.
Really? Please elaborate, because I think wizards is walking down a dangerous path.

The reason why I started playing on MTGO over other (free)online alternatives that I won't mention is because keping the cards you crack in limited events and building a collection that actually has some value, and that you can build constructed decks out of to enter in other formats is infectiously fun. They earn my money because of this fact. 

If you start leaning towards doing more and more phantom events in limited, you remove this aspect, and customers who primarily (or only) play limited on MTGO are better off playing elsewhere for free. Its that simple. You will drive people away by doing this. 

I really enjoy MTGO. I stopped playing paper magic and now only play on MTGO due to the convenience, as well as the higher player skill level, and because I can build a collection and create standard decks online much more cost-effectively while having fun earning those cards in limited events at the same time.

This all reeks of greed, and if I am incorrect as to wizards core intent behind this, I am very sorry, but this is a bad move. End rant. 

 
Right now 4 pack sealed is 3 rounds and gives prize support of 5/3/1 or 17 packs.

What if they changed it to 6 pack sealed (keep 3 rounds) and increased the prize support so that it gave out 25 packs?  They could do this by making the prize support 7/4/4/4/2/2/2 

You know what the craziest part about that would be?  It completely answers Wizards justification.  It eliminates 4 packs as weird format, but it keeps everything else in tact that players like.  And you know why they won't do it?  $$$$$$$$$.  That is the only reason.



My theoretical question:  Would you be more likely to play 6 pack sealed (3 rounds - no tix) with payout of 7/4/2 ... OR would you be more likely to play their Phantom Sealed?

7/4/2 all day

hell they could add a ticket or two as an entry fee and i'd still do it 
If WotC bring back 6-pack sealed with just doubling the prize for draft, they have to be aware that some players may find it too pricey per hour of play.  4 pack sealed currently has around the same price per hour of play as draft.  I know that EV is not everything for many.  But there are some who cares about it too.

That's the reason I played LOTS of leagues with the seemingly low prize in the past as the price per hour of play was very low.  So beware if you bring back leagues, I won't spend as much as I am now. Smile
The explanation wizards gives for eliminating 4 pack sealed is ridiculous. 

4 pack sealed can have a lot of variance, more than a lot of other events, but it also is a very streamlined, very fast way of playing limited that just doesn't exist in other formats. And it's fun. More fun, in fact, than regular 6 pack sealed IMO. Most of all, it's  the best value out there to play limited while simultaneously building a collection to use in constructed on MTGO, period, which is why they're removing it. Money, money, money. Don't release two articles back to back in one week on how MTGO is changing and striving to make players happy and then take away an incredibly popular format. If I want to practice my 6 pack sealed without keeping the cards I crack, I can do it for free elsewhere online, and everybody else can too, and we all know this. THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO PLAY THESE PHANTOM SEALEDS WHATSOEVER. I just started playing 4 pack sealeds in the last couple months or so, and as a result, my time logged into the program has shot up. However, my time on MTGO will be severely limited after Dec. 26th. 


I think we have a new candidate for Worst Justification in the thread.







1st.  You say anyone who uses the term "EV, cash grab, or ripoff" sucks at life and you're tuning them out?  You represent Wizards in a semi-official capacity as the sole moderator of their official MTGO boards, and you are telling customers that they "suck at life?"  You owe the people in this thread an apology, especially considering what an asinine statement that is, when it's highly likely that many of the people using these terms are considerably "better at life" than you.

2nd.  The terms "EV" and "ripoff" are absolutely relevant to this thread.  "EV" is just another roundabout way to getting to the price of the events. Saying an event is lower EV simply means that has a higher price, in terms of not refunding you some or all of the purchase price based on your performance in the event, in the form of packs.  This is extremely relevant to the consumers of MTGO, and one that will effect the bottom line of the product.  While more dollars will be taken in per event that fires, there are also those who realize that the dollar they spend on MTGO buys them less than it used to, and will spend less accordingly.

"Ripoff" is a completely subjective term, and also a valid description of any event, if the customer feels that way.  If enough customers feel that something is a ripoff, than that perception becomes reality.  The price of these sealed queues is exorbitant.  It's obvious that they aren't going to fire, and WIZARDS KNOWS THAT.  They know it's a ripoff, they just want to steer people into the higher profit margined and faster completing draft queues.  A customer saying these are a ripoff is well within their rights to say so, as they are about any event, and in this case they're going to be absolutely correct.

3rd.  The availability of online sealed generators is NOT a bad justification for why Wizard's decision to create these queues is a bad plan.  If Wizard's did this because they wanted to capture the "practicing for sealed market", then the existence of online sealed generators is something they have to consider.  Do you think iTunes pricing strategy isn't largely based on the fact that they have to compete with P2P networks where people can get that same music for free?  Apple can't say we're charging $10 per song, and you'll pay it and like it, because to do otherwise would make you a FILTHY PIRATE!!!  Most people recognize that the artist should be compensated for the songs that they download.  Most people probably believe that $1 is a legitimate price to pay for a song, and will pay it to download.  Others likely feel that that price isn't justified, and will illegally download the music.  Pretending that this attitude doesn't exist and just burying your head in the sand and charging $10 per song would be ruinous.


Regardless, we know that they didn't get rid of these sealed queues for any of the official "reasons" offered.  They were cut because they were signifcantly lower profit margin than the drafts that they'd rather you be playing.  Once again, we get a price increase with no accompanying increase in functionality.  It's funny.  I make a lot of money now, but I spend considerably less on MTGO than I did when I was a poor college/ law student because I get less for what I pay for.  The fact that I know have thousands of dollars of dispoable income per month doesn't mean I'll blindly throw it away on MTGO as they continue to jack up prices.
If WotC bring back 6-pack sealed with just doubling the prize for draft, they have to be aware that some players may find it too pricey per hour of play.  4 pack sealed currently has around the same price per hour of play as draft.  I know that EV is not everything for many.  But there are some who cares about it too.

That's the reason I played LOTS of leagues with the seemingly low prize in the past as the price per hour of play was very low.  So beware if you bring back leagues, I won't spend as much as I am now.





They are well aware of this, and that's precisely why they aren't back.
sperry seems to know his stuff --- good posts
Here is my proposal. I think most people could agree to this:

1. Get rid of 4 pack sealed.

2. Replace 4 pack sealed with 6 pack sealed. Keep every other thing the same. It will remain a 3-round Swiss tournament. The entry fee will remain ticketless. You only need product to enter. The prize pool is increased to 7/4/2.

3a. In addition to the new 6 pack sealed there will be another format. This will be called "Phantom Sealed." In this format the entry fee will be 3 tickets. Players will not keep their cards. The prize support for this format will be 2/1/1/1/0/0/0/0. This will give players who prefer to play for fun and not for collection an option to play.

3b. If they do not wish to allow the above Phantom Sealed to be a queue event they can change it to a Daily Event. If this is the case, they change the Entry Fee to 2 tickets.  It will now be a 4-round event similar to other Daily Events. The prize support for this will be:

12 points: 2 boosters + 3QP
9 points: 1 booster + 1QP


I would love to hear some counter-argument as to how the above proposal would not be a good compromise for everybody.  Wizards keeps making a profit.  Players stay happy.  Everybody wins.  It even gives players a low-cost tournament option.  This would be a good alternative for cash-strapped players who still want to compete for QPs.
I would just like to chime in with the chorus of voices decrying the choice to replace 4-pack sealed with phantom sealed tourneys. Its a shame that you won't be able to keep your cards, and the ability to enter the 4-pack sealed with only product, no additional tix, was a very welcome thing. I'd rather see it go to REAL 6-pack sealed with no additional tix for entry, but even 4-pack is better than Phantom, by a long shot.
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I have been playing 4 pack sealed for the past month, religiously. I love it. It's the perfect amount of time investment, with the matches usually going much faster than in a draft... not to mention deck construction seems to be quicker without having to make picks. 

I think Phantom games are terrible ideas. I want to keep the cards I open. I don't want to rip a Foil chase Mythic and not own it. If I'm going to spend money on cards, I want the cards.

This will definitely drive me away from the online client. Which is fine. I can use my free time for good now. 
I had planned on writing a long post about why I play 4 booster sealed almost exclusively.  But Harpist beat me to it and probably did better than I would have.

Don't underestimate collecting cards: Currently I'm finishing up my 3rd full set of RtR for redemption, almost exclusively through 4 booster sealed.  And it cost me a fair amount of money, but was way more fun than buying the cards from bots.  Hours and hours and hours of fun.   According to my December summary I have won more than 1,000 booster packs in sealed in 2012.  Along with those packs, I many times spend money to buy packs when I'm out (I could minimize that by selling more cards, but I like to turn my digital fun into paper fun later)

Dear WOTC - I will not be shifting the money you currently earn from me to drafts and rarely to scheduled events - 4 booster sealed was about the perfect length and allowed me to win enough prizes to keep to a monthly budget.   Unless you return 4-booster sealed or make a 6-booster 3 round on demand sealed event where I keep my cards and that has comparable payouts, I'm going to find other entertainment.      At least until 2015 and the return of leagues.

I promised that I wouldn't complain about MODO for the rest of the year when they gave out the 10th year anniversary swag. I'm going to try very hard to channel my thoughts as constructive criticism instead of escalating depression and anger.

If the goal is to open sealed up for beginners to try and provide a fun atmosphere to just play, why not completely offer the 6 pack phantom sealed as an all-inclusive 3-round round-robin event with 4 people? I know I would certainly do these events every once in awhile if they were 2 tix to enter and did not offer any prize support. Especially to learn a sealed environment, which is my favorite limited environment.

If people are paying for an event with no prize support in the first place, I don't believe they would want to drop since there is no justification of not getting a good payout. This should balance out the need to offer a prize for all participants if they keep winning (aka giving a reason for the 0-2 player to keep playing), and keep interest in purely enjoying the draft. If even a free draft for the winner is offered (10 cube tix as a payout or whatever these would use), some people may drop just because they don't have a shot at this 1st place prize, defeating the point of practice/fun.The EV of these events is FUN. This suggestion should not attract the competitive crowd as you will always "lose" value and keep it fairly casual.

I understand the unhappy crowd who feels like they are losing value, and I am with them. I played 4 pack sealed a bit and while it was a different way to play, it wasn't for me. I feel bad for the people who found a niche format they not only enjoyed, but could also afford. I would suggest to these people to possibly look at pauper or Momir constructed.

What I think bubba and WotC may be missing in the translation of our posts about "EV" and "Ripoff" is that we always hear about how well Magic is doing and how we've been great about supporting the game - but then we get announcements of changes that either increase the price of play or decrease functionality. I know personally that I haven't seen one announcement for the upcoming year that interests me. It's great that they're trying to offer new things to keep MODO fresh and include a new audience, but I have adapted my spending habits and play time to a decreasing number of options I prefer/can afford. Magic costs a premium to maintain high-quality gameplay, sure, but please understand that we feel we have supported that premium (in record numbers lately) even though it is a very expensive hobby, and still experience a lack of support from WotC. It hurts to lose options or pay more while seeing the game we love do so well, and feel like we are not supporting it enough or that our opinion doesn't matter. 4 pack sealed seemed like a compromise on MODO to offer an "inferior" option to play limited since it was not playtested, but was friendlier on the wallet. Kind of like going to the cosmotology school for a free/discounted haircut. It only makes sense that it had a cult following and this group is not happy that it is being taken away to be replaced with something completely different.

Here I go with my feedback regarding the article post, and MODO in general:

Removing 4-pack sealed : To me this just seems so wrong. I have been playing 4-packs for months now, giving me an easier opportunity to start building up my collection online, opening up easier access for me to play in block events, etc.  I know it costs no tix to enter, and the prizing structure is actually quite good for players, which might be against big-business profit margins (sorry, its the real world out there).  This will actually start causing me to play less online, as there is no incentive anymore for me to carry on. Which leads into the Rewards program :

While it seems to be good, when reading through the T&C's of the program it completely excludes any non-USA players from entering the program (Eligibility).  As the American market seems to be the driving force of MODO I can understand that, but how many non-American players are you continuosly pushing away from MODO?  Is it coming close to the need for a "European Server/ Far East Server"?

Basically, if you want my money, give me the incentive to spend my money with you. Make it easier to get into MODO (seriously, some of the single prices in tix for staple mythics are degenerate compared to paper prices).  I have already written off the need to "crack packs" IRL so I guess my free cash monthly might be going elsewhere soon.

Regards
European player, GP competitor, but not sure for how much longer.      
I make a lot of money now



Can I have a heated toilet seat with beer coaster for Christmas Santa?
Promo Force of Will!!!!!!!!!!! W00t!!!!!!! Thank you WOTC! Smile

RIP 4-booster sealed; oh how I'll miss thee.