OA + Brutal Barrage + Bracers of Tactical Blows

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Hi everyone!! let me introduce you to our party's latest discussion about OA + brutal barrage + tactital blows:


there's a controversial battlemind/fighter in the party that says the property of the Bracers of Tactical Blows (Property: When you hit with an opportunity attack, deal an extra 1d6 damage.) applies to every single hit dealt by his Brutal Barrage (used as an OA with the Heavy Blade Opportunity feat). So that with a flat BB the damage dealt comes as follow:


1st Hit: Con Mod (6) + 1d6 (Bracers of tactical Blows)
2nd Hit: Con Mod (6) + 1d6 (Bracers of tactical Blows)
3rd Hit: Con Mod (6) + 1d6 (Bracers of tactical Blows)


Is this correct... why? or B.Tactical Blows apply just once at the end of the OA?


1st Hit: Con Mod (6)
2nd Hit: Con Mod (6)
3rd Hit: Con Mod (6) + 1d6 (Bracers of tactical Blows)


????


thanks you all!!

I probably should look up the wording to be certain, but I'm lazy.  Assuming you have the right wording there and he can use it as an OA it gets added to every swing.

Just like if the character had Boots of the Mighty Charge to replace his MBA on a charge he would gain all the effects of the Charge on it.

So assuming he has Horned Helm (Paragon), Vanguard Gouge and Surprising Charge it would do this:

Con mod + 2d6+1d8+2d6b1 
Con mod + 2d6+1d8+2d6b1
Con mod + 2d6+1d8+2d6b1


As to the why it is because it is a replacement effect.  If you are using BB as an OA then all the attacks are OAs and so get all bonuses for being OAs.  If you use it as the end of a charge etc etc.
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Is this correct... why?

Yes its correct, because every attacks from Brutal Barrage is done as part of an Opportunity Attack and thus may benefit from Bracers of Tactical Blows.


Is this correct... why?

Yes its correct, because every attacks from Brutal Barrage is done as part of an Opportunity Attack and thus may benefit from Bracers of Tactical Blows.



If I'm reading Brutal Barrage correctly, it does not get the damage on each hit.  The multiple attack rolls only improve the chance of hitting and add an effect (prone) if hit multiple times, but still only does Con mod damage once even if it hits every time.
If I'm reading Brutal Barrage correctly, it does not get the damage on each hit.  The multiple attack rolls only improve the chance of hitting and add an effect (prone) if hit multiple times, but still only does Con mod damage once even if it hits every time.

You're not reading BB correctly.


 +1
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Most things in 4e are based on the relatively simple concept of "If X then Y", every time the Condition X is satisfied, Result Y occurs. This is most commonly demonstrated when Making an Attack, every time you hit the target with an attack, you follow the directions of what the power says to do when you hit, every time you miss the target with an attack, you follow the directions (if any) of what the power says to do when you miss. Brutal Barrage very plainly states "Make the attack three times", 3 attacks, 3 attempts to hit, up to 3 instances of damage (4 for all those in the case of Augment).

A power would need to specifically say "Resolve all three attacks as a single hit" or something similar, and there are powers that say that.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
So Plaguescarred, would you say then that if you get an OA, with HBO, and sub in Throw and Stab, that you can recursively attack every enemy in the encounter... because it is made as an OA?
You can use Throw and Stab instead of a basic attack when making an Opportunity Attack if you have Heavy Blade OpportunityNot every enemies in the encounter would be attacked though, just 2, since it target 1 creature and let you move up to your speed and make a melee basic attack against another creature as an Effect.

Good luck trying to convince any DM to get to chain Throw and Stab like that. :P
And in place of the basic attack in Throw and Stab, you can...use Throw and Stab, because HBO tells you you can.

Perfectly legit, if clearly unintended.  Report to errata board (if they even do that anymore...)
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It was reported years ago and ignored.  And now, they're claiming there's no errata left to make for 4e.  lol
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
No it doesn't work RAW now that the Rule Compendium changed Opportunity Attack.

Because Opportunity Attack is now a power and that making an opportunity attack refers to using the Opportunity Attack power, it means Heavy Blade Opportunity cannot allow the melee basic attack from Throw and Stab to be be replaced by Throw and Stab because you are not using the Opportunity Attack power.

''When you make an opportunity attack use opportunity attack power with a heavy blade, you can use an at-will attack that has the weapon keyword instead of a basic attack.''


PHB 203 Heavy Blade Opportunity: When you make an opportunity attack with a heavy blade, you can use an at-will attack that has the weapon keyword instead of a basic attack.

 

RC 247 Opportunity Attack:
Triggering this power is usually referred to as provoking an opportunity attack and using it is usually referred to as making an opportunity attack.
It's HBO that allows this to work, and your statement that the entirety of the at-will used by HBO counts as "opportunity attack."  The RC quote does not apply, because HBO overrides it.

You can't claim the strikethrough, because the RC didn't edit the HBO feat.  HBO still does what HBO says it does.

You are making an opportunity attack, as you claim as per your answer above regarding Brutal Barrage, and you are making a basic attack.  You can therefore substitute an at-will power for the basic attack.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
You can't treat Throw and Stab's melee basic attack the same as Brutal Barrage's attack because one is a power granted in an Effect line while the other is an attack in the at-will's Attack line used instead of a basic attack.

The attack(s) counting as opportunity attack are those contained in the at-will attack used instead of the basic attack. In the case of Throw and Stab its:

  Attack: Strength vs. AC (thrown weapon)
  Hit: 1[W] damage.


That's an insignificant distinction.  The opportunity attack is still the usage of the power, because you're using the power in place of the MBA.

Bull Charge, the Fighter L3 encounter power, has both its primary and secondary attacks boosted by the +1 bonus to Charge attacks for the exact same reason.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
There's another silliness that prevent Heavy Blade Opportunity from working RAW.

Heavy Blade Opportunity can be used when you make an opportunity attack with a heavy blade, which cannot happen because the Opportunity Attack power doesn't have the Weapon keyword.

Its one of a few things that was broken by it :P

RC 113 Weapon: The weapon keyword identifies a power that is used with a power

even though this is the rules forum, i'm not sure how productive it is to respond that something doesnt work in the expected manner because an idiot unintentionally broke it. exactly zero DMs will rule that HBO never works, so, other than being an interesting academic tidbit, it seems unhelpful.
even though this is the rules forum, i'm not sure how productive it is to respond that something doesnt work in the expected manner because an idiot unintentionally broke it. exactly zero DMs will rule that HBO never works, so, other than being an interesting academic tidbit, it seems unhelpful.



Its an interesting academic tidbit.

Also its better than going "BB only does damage once" and then posting that on half a dozen threads crying that we are all wrong.  Then when shown you are in fact the one who is incorrect sinking quietly back into the shadows without so much as a "oh, sorry for spreading misinformation like a plague-rat". 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
even though this is the rules forum, i'm not sure how productive it is to respond that something doesnt work in the expected manner because an idiot unintentionally broke it. exactly zero DMs will rule that HBO never works, so, other than being an interesting academic tidbit, it seems unhelpful.



Its an interesting academic tidbit.

Also its better than going "BB only does damage once" and then posting that on half a dozen threads crying that we are all wrong.  Then when shown you are in fact the one who is incorrect sinking quietly back into the shadows without so much as a "oh, sorry for spreading misinformation like a plague-rat". 



at least we get saving throws at the end of the thread to avoid contracting misinformation (stage 1).
And the sad thing is that it was reported to the rule update team, but the RC has an at-will Immediate Reaction Teleport power upon being targeted by errata it seems. Wink
I see what you did there...Wink
"You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -The Doctor, Remembrance of the Daleks
And the sad thing is that it was reported to the rule update team, but the RC has an at-will Immediate Reaction Teleport power upon being targeted by errata it seems. 


D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Yes, but does it add a damage roll to Magic Missile?
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
And the sad thing is that it was reported to the rule update team, but the RC has an at-will Immediate Reaction Teleport power upon being targeted by errata it seems. 


They can only use it once a round since it is an immediate action.  We should have focus fired better.
Well now Rule Update seems to have been Remove From Play. Tongue Out
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