Minamo,School at Water's Edge stopping legendary creatures from attack?

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Just got into a dispute about
Minamo, School at Water's Edge stopping an attacking legendary creature.
 
Situation
I attack with an legendary creature and tap it while declaration.
My Opponent "responds" and untaps it claiming its not attacking and i cant declare it again as attacker.


In my opinion this is what happens:


I declare attacker and tap, evtl pass

my opponent thinks to use minamo to untap my attacker
Nothing says my creature is not anymore attacking, so its just an untap'd attacker and I say thx
its true that i cant declare it again as attacker, since that step has passed.

Am I right?
1) You can't activate abilities while declaring attackers.

2) Untapping creatures does not remove them from combat.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

You are correct. There is nothing in the rules saying an attacking creature must stay tapped, nor that untapping removes it from combat.

As I recall, there used to be such a rule, but that was a long time ago.


Similarly, if you tap one of his blocking creatures, you are still blocked, and that creature still deals and is dealt damage.
As I recall, there used to be such a rule, but that was a long time ago.

No, there never was.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

As I recall, there used to be such a rule, but that was a long time ago.

No, there never was.




There was a rule that tapped blockers dealt no damage though, right? Maybe that's what he's thinking of.
Thanks to Long_Con for the avatar.
River Guide
56756068 wrote:
58147568 wrote:
121816979 wrote:
56819178 wrote:
147112461 wrote:
Hi everyone,I have two questions. 1. If my opponent already controlled a planewalker , then he cast avacyn,angle of hope ,and resolved on battlefield.Now his planewalker in indestructible right?
[c]Avacyn, Angel of Hope[/c] -> Avacyn, Angel of Hope
No need to be so obtuse, maybe he's just trying to complement her. That's not too radical of a concept, I mean she is pretty acute, right?.
This right here should be a bannable offense :p
No, not an outright banning, that's too easy. He should be punished ... ... by degrees.
There is nothing in the rules saying an attacking creature must stay tapped, nor that untapping removes it from combat.

in fact there's a rule that says just the opposite
506.4b Tapping or untapping a creature that’s already been declared as an attacker or blocker doesn’t remove it from combat and doesn’t prevent its combat damage.

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There is nothing in the rules saying an attacking creature must stay tapped, nor that untapping removes it from combat.

in fact there's a rule that says just the opposite
506.4b Tapping or untapping a creature that’s already been declared as an attacker or blocker doesn’t remove it from combat and doesn’t prevent its combat damage.



Although there doesn't need to be. That is what we sometimes call a "reminder rule" around here, by analogy with reminder text. The rules would work the same even if it wasn't there. It just spells out a (to some people) non-obvious consequence of the other rules, or in this case the absence of certain other rules some people expect to see, mostly so there's something a little more concrete to refer people to who ask questions like this.

(2Goth of course knows this, this is directed more at the OP.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
As I recall, there used to be such a rule, but that was a long time ago.

No, there never was.




There was a rule that tapped blockers dealt no damage though, right? Maybe that's what he's thinking of.



That sounds more like it.


Isn't this contradictory though.  If the rules state that tapping or untapping declared attackers/blockers do not stop them from attacking/blocking, then how does the Master of Arms ability (see link above) do any good to tap target creature blocking it.  Now I am confused by that.
how does the Master of Arms ability (see link above) do any good to tap target creature blocking it.


It generally doesn't do any good.

It used to though. Over a decade ago, there was a rule that tapped blockers don't deal damage. This rule hasn't been around for a long time, so master of arms is no longer as useful.
Isn't this contradictory though.  If the rules state that tapping or untapping declared attackers/blockers do not stop them from attacking/blocking, then how does the Master of Arms ability (see link above) do any good to tap target creature blocking it.  Now I am confused by that.

Long, long ago (more than a decade ago) when Master of Arms was originally printed, tapping a blocking creature before combat damage would stop it from dealing any combat damage. So at the time, there was a use for it. But that hasn't been the case for a long time.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

OK, my bad.  I understand now.  I thought the post was saying that you could still use Master of Arm's ability.
You can still use his ability. It just doesn't do anything useful.

(Johnny challenge: make Master of Arms useful.)

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

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You can still use his ability. It just doesn't do anything useful.

(Johnny challenge: make Master of Arms useful.)

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The blocker won't deal damage if it's not on the battlefield.
OK, my bad.  I understand now.  I thought the post was saying that you could still use Master of Arm's ability.


Nah, it was mostly just an example of the old rule (Although as I recall they did actually errata him to prevent the damage for a while, but then they decided to go back to his printed wording).


(Johnny challenge: make Master of Arms useful.)


Get your opponent to agree to play Kangaroo Magic. Use Time Machine to travel back to a time period when the tapped blocker rule was still a thing.
Thanks to Long_Con for the avatar.
River Guide
56756068 wrote:
58147568 wrote:
121816979 wrote:
56819178 wrote:
147112461 wrote:
Hi everyone,I have two questions. 1. If my opponent already controlled a planewalker , then he cast avacyn,angle of hope ,and resolved on battlefield.Now his planewalker in indestructible right?
[c]Avacyn, Angel of Hope[/c] -> Avacyn, Angel of Hope
No need to be so obtuse, maybe he's just trying to complement her. That's not too radical of a concept, I mean she is pretty acute, right?.
This right here should be a bannable offense :p
No, not an outright banning, that's too easy. He should be punished ... ... by degrees.
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