Is Brutal Barrage op worth it without adding a damage roll?

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
I'm curious how much can be added to brutal barrage when ruling that adding dice does not add a damage roll. Is there any comprehensive list of things that would apply?

Quick list myself:

Vulnerability (various sources)
Son of Mercy (PP)
Headsman's Chop
Crippling Crush
Shocking Flame

A Firesoul Genasi Battlemind|Warlock with twofold pact to pick up full elemental pact, a cincture of vivacity to be able to spend second wind at the beginning of any combat that he wasn't already attuned to fire without wasting the surge, and a firewind blade with Shocking Flame could be pinging vulnerability 8 times per standard action with an AUG 1 BB.

I guess that does seem worth it already, but I wonder how much it could be pushed... 
Lyrander Windrider (much better than Son of Mercy, +1 hit, +con to damage).

Yes, that is worth it already.
Hands of the Titan adds Cha.
White Raven (warlord) path can add 2 per ally adjacent to target
Gauntlets of Brutality

You can also add in forced movement and "zone abuse" to a limited extent.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
BB is stupidly overpowered. Even under RAW. Outside of RAW, adding damage rolls, it becomes beyond obscene.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
BB is stupidly overpowered. Even under RAW. Outside of RAW, adding damage rolls, it becomes beyond obscene.

Think you might have meant RAI and not RAW in that second part, since RAW rolling for damage is a damage roll, by definition.

BB is kind of ridiculous, but it isn't really a problem in and of itself. It is like Feychargers, the problem was being able to use Feystep+Feystep support+Charge support+teleport support all as one action. Once you removed the interaction, each individual element was fine. Not sure what the best solution would be to be fix BB at this point, but it wouldn't ever get implemented anyway.
Here's a start. Do not allow the exact same status effect to be applied to the same creature for the same duration in the same turn (in this case, slowed)

Windrider, of course, goes into the same trash can as Mark of Storm.
kilpatds asked this at one point: "Could someone with a bit of time on their hands just put together a vanilla BB/BR morninglord/radiant one (firewind blade) spammer?" And also to get numbers with and without a damage roll.

I obliged him, and I got 3.25 KPR with damage roll bonuses (created with Claw Gloves), 2.88 KPR without those bonuses, and 2.01 KPR with those bonuses, but without revenant extra actions.

Only the 3.25 number is actually optimized - the other two numbers are "use the same build and just omit those bonuses," whereas ideally you would modify the build to accomodate the restrictions.
I always find KPR estimates for brutal barrage builds get a little silly since that's a single target so a lot of it is probably overkill.

But, yeah, it's pretty crazy. 
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director