40 squares of range!? Is it really true? [+ ranger overpower]

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
Yo ppl how are you?

We got a ranger in the group who says he got a top range of forty squares. It seems really odd.

I mean... he is almost a sniper.

Even with the minus bonus, it is still a lot of squares o.O

If he's using a bow, that's about right, yes.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
"Hey guys, it takes you two turns to reach me!"

*Lurkers surprise Ranger and one-round him*

Rest of party: "Huh, sure sucks he was to far away to help. What's for lunch?"

-2 is actually a really big deal. Not all combats are even in open areas where the range matters (that'd be the Dungeons part), and not being able to get Prime Shot bonuses means you aren't being as effective as you could be, particularly in Paragon.
Hey Salla Laughing

No, that cant be true xD
We play using maps and miniatures and 40 squares its a loooooooooooooong shot

but if you are saying so...

yeah, he uses a bow

Yo Alcestis Laughing

Hm... yeah, I think you are right

EDIT: whats paragon and whats prime shot?
Hey Salla

No, that cant be true xD
We play using maps and miniatures and 40 squares its a loooooooooooooong shot

but if you are saying so...

yeah, he uses a bow



Open your PHB, look at the weapons table.  The range for a longbow is listed as 20/40.
If he were using a greatbow, his top range would be 50.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Yeah, I know, I just wanted to confirm my reading. Thanks for the fast answer
EDIT: whats paragon and whats prime shot?

Wow...

So Prime Shot is a Ranger class feature that gives you a +1 to ranged attacks if no allies are closer to your target than you are. Super common tactic: flank an enemy with your defender, provoking an OA. This gives you CA, you have +2 to defenses vs OAs, the mark means the creature has a -2 to hit you, and if they take the OA, the defender gets to punish, and you get your +1 from Prime Shot. Win all around really.

The game is played in three tiers. Heroic Tier is 1-10, Paragon is 11-20, and Epic is 21-30. In Paragon there is a feat that adds +5 damage to attacks you get your Prime Shot bonus to. Rangers are all about stacking static modifiers to damage, so +5 damage is big for them, since it applies to each attack, and Rangers make a minimum of two attacks per round.

 Y'know, in all the time I've played D&D, I think I can still tell you every last occasion where I've ever taken a shot at something from the maximum range of a bow with the serious intention of hitting something rather than just going "Hey, look, I'm shooting at you!"...
At least half of those involved shooting at flying creatures who had just attacked and were in the process of turning around to come back for another pass at the party, because arrows are cheap and there was at least a vague chance to put a little more damage on them before they got back into their attack range.

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

BTW, count your blessings.  In 3e, the longbow had a range increment of 100 feet (20 squares), but could fire TEN range increments (200 squares), and there were a lot of ways to increase that.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Thanks Alcestis, Mad_Jack and Salla for the answers

And Alcestis , I'm from Brazil and I'm writing "technical terms" in a different language. So I didnt know what paragon and prime shot standed for, but now that I read the description, I know exactly what it is. Dont need to do that "wow" thing =)
BTW, count your blessings.  In 3e, the longbow had a range increment of 100 feet (20 squares), but could fire TEN range increments (200 squares), and there were a lot of ways to increase that.


Deepwoods Sniper, because shooting through trees means I can hit a stirge 3 countries away!
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

Deepwoods Sniper, because shooting through trees means I can hit a stirge 3 countries away!


  Yeah, back in 3.5 it was almost possible to shoot yourself in the back of the head, lol.


Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...


Deepwoods Sniper, because shooting through trees means I can hit a stirge 3 countries away!


  Yeah, back in 3.5 it was almost possible to shoot yourself in the back of the head, lol.


In 2e, I had a ranger that managed to fire east and hit an ally to the west. Though that was probably the DM fudging things...

Also, isn't there a feat (Far Shot, I think?) that increases both normal and extended range by 10 squares? It's rarely useful (since 20 squares is already a huge distance), but I've known some people that would take it just to be an extreme range sniper.

Most fights I've seen in 4e (and I've been in quite a few campaigns) have been constrained enough that a range of 20 will let you stand on one side of the battlefield and hit a monster on the other side. Maybe you'll have to walk a couple feet forward first, but I digress...
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Yes, and you can use a Weapon of Long Range, and probably a PP or something. Regardless, in 4e there exist powers with range "Sight"
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Not to mention the fact that 20/40 is only the longbow's range.  If the sniper takes a greatbow (and the accompanying feat), it has a range of 25/50, without anything else added on.
I've literally never had a situation where I used a bow's long range.  Ever.

I've used long range on some of the more limited throwing weapons, but never for a bow or crossbow.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I've literally never had a situation where I used a bow's long range.  Ever.

I've used long range on some of the more limited throwing weapons, but never for a bow or crossbow.



I've played a hunter from 1-11, a bow ranger from 1-19, and a ranger|seeker 11-17. I have had to move closer at the start of combat to avoid a long range penalty exactly once, and that was to immobilize the furthest enemy away from us, that had started 21 squares away from me. 

In theory, how common this is depends on your DM. in practice, if he's nice to you by setting up combat maps with monsters starting 20+ squares away, he's simultaneously being a dick to the rest of the party, who will have to spend at least one round double-running to close the distance.  
IME long range has most often come up with flying creature getting away in the sky.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

LFR Battle Interactives have often had range > 20 happen.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The problem when attacking from so far away, is that monsters could circle around the party and reach the "archer", and he wouldn't be in reach of his allies to be helped (the last encounter i DM, spreading the party turned quite a bad idea from them)
That's really only an issue at low level and/or low optimization. A good Archer can handle a single enemy, even an Elite by themselves; if multiple unengaged enemies are heading toward the lone Archer, then the rest of the party should be able to respond and engage in time unless the enemies are double moving, in which case that's just lost attacks to gain the ability to drop the Archer for a single round, it looks scary but is actually the less powerful tactic. Now, if multiple enemies are managing to disengage from the rest of the party, then that's a major problem with the builds of the party.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.