Books about creating a Necromancer character

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Hey I just want to know what 4e books talk about making a necromancer character?  one that lists all the spells and everything I need to know about making a necromancer.
Heroes of the Fallen Lands.  Necromancer is a Wizard (Mage) who specializes in necromancy.
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Heroes of the Fallen Lands details the Mage class. Heroes of Shadow details the Necromancy school for Mages.

Or you could play any other style of Wizard, use the Necro- and Nethermancy spells, and call yourself a Necromancer.
You might find some tips in Book of Vile Darkness too, but Heroes of Shadow is the book you need. Sadly, the book is badly organized, so be warned. And if you aren't playing in an Essentials game (or familiar with it), you could run into problems.

Also, while the fluff text of the book is very good, the mechanics of HoS are rather disappointing. It tries to be both "pure" 4e and Essentials, and suffers for the mixed messages.
There is no such thing as 'an Essentials game'.  Essentials is 4e, 4e is Essentials.
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This is bull, of course. Just because the rules are compatable does not make Essentials 4E. It just means that they can be played together. This is something that I have had demonstrated to me very directly when trying to organize the first game in 3 years with the rulesets. Essentials is *different* enough to create confusion among new players trying to make characters with older rule sets.

They just simply are not the same game. They just happen to share the same rules.
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They just simply are not the same game. They just happen to share the same rules.



Which makes them the same game.  Thank you for proving my point.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
To clarify. D&D has a ruleset. You can play 4E. You can play Essentials. You should never try mixing the character creation rules together. It is not elegant, it's not pretty, and it's due to core philosophy changes going from a Confomed Modular Character Progression, to a non-confomed linear progression.
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Tell me Salla, if I am playing Gurps, and someone decided to make a character only using GURPS Lite, are they playing the same game?

I think you'll find GURPS players would answer no.
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To clarify. D&D has a ruleset. You can play 4E. You can play Essentials. You should never try mixing the character creation rules together. It is not elegant, it's not pretty, and it's due to core philosophy changes going from a Confomed Modular Character Progression, to a non-confomed linear progression.



Except that I've played in many-a-game and run many-a-game with a mix of characters and Echaracters. There is even an established official setting that explicitly includes both (LFR).

You can try to draw similarities to other games all you like, the problem is they are just similar games and not the same.

Edit: Lets take this slightly further.  My current games consist of the following groups:

G1:
Warden
Berserker (E class)
Shaman
Skald (E class)
Sorcerer
Wizard

G2:
Druid
Thief (E class)
Rogue
Swordmage
Cleric
Warlord
 
G3
Elementalist (E class)
Ranger
Cleric
Wizard.

G4
Warlord|Cleric
Blackguard (Eclass)
Ranger|Cleric
Paladin|Cleric
Avenger

So of my 4 games (of which only 1 is new) there are a total of... 4 of them with mixed E classes and Classes.  No two games contain the same people and only G1 and G2 share the same DM. 
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Tell me Salla, if I am playing Gurps, and someone decided to make a character only using GURPS Lite, are they playing the same game?

I think you'll find GURPS players would answer no.



I'm unfamiliar with GURPS (played it once, over twenty years ago), so can't comment.

I *can* say, through experience, that there are zero compatibility issues between 4e characters and Essentials characters, particularly since you can 'mix and match', with 'classic' 4e characters taking utility powers and feats from the E-books and E-characters taking utilities and feats from classic 4e books.  Plus, E-characters can take 4e paragon paths and epic destinies.  A slayer IS a Fighter, after all.

Sorry, but your stance has absolutely zero basis in reality.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

I *can* say, through experience, that there are zero compatibility issues between 4e characters and Essentials characters, particularly since you can 'mix and match', with 'classic' 4e characters taking utility powers and feats from the E-books and E-characters taking utilities and feats from classic 4e books.  Plus, E-characters can take 4e paragon paths and epic destinies.  A slayer IS a Fighter, after all.

Sorry, but your stance has absolutely zero basis in reality.



+1 (See my edit in the post above)
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I am sorry I brought it up--I was trying to provide a helpful warning about a potential complication to someone who might not have been aware of the argument (account was less than 2 weeks old at the time of OP's posting). Can we please NOT have this thread degenerate into (yet another) 4e vs Essentials battle.
People disagree. Both sides have their arguments. the grounds have been trampled to death more times than I care to count. Let's be done with it already.

I'm with the "Similar, but different" crowd. If you want to say they're the same, Fine. I'll disagree with you and we probably won't ever play in the same game, so does it really matter?
Aye, Salla is right by any reasonable interpretation.

So, the upshot is that Heroes of Shadow has some 'Essentials-like' classes in it, and it happens that it provides a Necromancer as a Mage school, so you'd need to HotFL to be one, technically. OTOH of course all that joining the school does is basically get you a few bonuses, useful but you can still use the powers even if you don't have HotFL and play an arcanist (PHB1 Wizard). The other 'essentials like' stuff is pretty much all usable regardless of what books you have, except for warpriest and hexblade material, but there's not much of that.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
I am sorry I brought it up--I was trying to provide a helpful warning about a potential complication to someone who might not have been aware of the argument (account was less than 2 weeks old at the time of OP's posting). Can we please NOT have this thread degenerate into (yet another) 4e vs Essentials battle.
People disagree. Both sides have their arguments. the grounds have been trampled to death more times than I care to count. Let's be done with it already.

I'm with the "Similar, but different" crowd. If you want to say they're the same, Fine. I'll disagree with you and we probably won't ever play in the same game, so does it really matter?



It does if people are giving new players the incorrect answer that Essentials and Pre-essentials characters can't mix in the same game.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Well, as an unreasonable person, I will point out one flaw: without HoS, you have very few Necrotic spells.
PH 1:
1 Wizard lvl 1 encounter spell has the Necrotic keyword.
0 lvl 2
0 lvl 3
0 lvl 5
0 lvl 6
0 lvl 7
0 lvl 9
0 lvl 10

Arcane Power:
0 Necrotic spells below lvl10, and probably not many beyond.
So, without HoS, there is no substantive way to build a necromancer without just reflavoring the text.
Now, there are feats that let you add a keyword, but you have to take the feat for EACH power. Rediculous and unworkable.

You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict. It is one thing on the boards where you can ignore the other person. In the gaming group, if two players, or worse: a player and the DM, disagree, it can ruin not only a single game session, but the entire game group. (Don't laugh: I've seen it happen).
(Had more, but never mind, rant was counter productive)
Again, please let us avoid yet another rehash of an old argument
Well, as an unreasonable person, I will point out one flaw: without HoS, you have very few Necrotic spells.
PH 1:
1 Wizard lvl 1 encounter spell has the Necrotic keyword.
0 lvl 2
0 lvl 3
0 lvl 5
0 lvl 6
0 lvl 7
0 lvl 9
0 lvl 10

Arcane Power:
0 Necrotic spells below lvl10, and probably not many beyond.
So, without HoS, there is no substantive way to build a necromancer without just reflavoring the text.
Now, there are feats that let you add a keyword, but you have to take the feat for EACH power. Rediculous and unworkable.



Dread Presence E1
Ray of Enfeeblement E1
Grim Shadow E3
Grasp of the Grave D5
Animate Dead D9
Deathsmoke D9

Those are all necrotic and all not from HoS.  What are you talking about precisely?  Yeah there aren't tons of options, but look how few acid attacks there are as well.






 
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here

You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict. It is one thing on the boards where you can ignore the other person. In the gaming group, if two players, or worse: a player and the DM, disagree, it can ruin not only a single game session, but the entire game group. (Don't laugh: I've seen it happen).
(Had more, but never mind, rant was counter productive)
Again, please let us avoid yet another rehash of an old argument



The argument isn't which is better, or should you mix them in every game, but are they compatible to play together.  The answer to that question is yes.  It is perfectly mechanically reasonable to sit an Echaracter and an Ocharacter at the same table and tally forth.

Now one will have less options than the other, but that might work in the situation and it might not.  The dynamics of it aren't the question, but whether you can mechanically have them side by side.  The answer to that is "yes you can".
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict.



No, the point is, you are objectively wrong.  There is no argument, because you have zero facts to support your position.
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My point, (sorry, I thought I was being clear) was that without HoS, there are very few necrotic spells.
I happen to have the books right by my computer, so I went through what was in PH1 and Arcane Power.
If you are building a necromancer, you are going to have incredibly few actually necrotic spells without HoS.
To the point where there is no mechanical or practical benefit in calling yourself a necromancer, beyond pure fluff. Even your expanded list leaves gaps (like an at-will).
HoS provides Cantrips, several At-wills, and spells for almost every level.

And people argue about it. As already seen in this thread. If you are new to the system, you might not be aware that there is an argument. THAT WAS MY POINT. I was attempting to provide a warning. Now can we PLEASE (for the 3rd time) drop it?
well thanks everyone, i'm not sure what this big arguement is about but my question has pretty much been answered. i'll just get myself heroes of shadow.  Thanks for the help guys =)
well thanks everyone, i'm not sure what this big arguement is about but my question has pretty much been answered. i'll just get myself heroes of shadow.  Thanks for the help guys =)



Basically what happens on these forums is this:

1) An argument starts on a thread somewhere. 
2) New threads with simple answers will refer to something that can bring up the argument again.
3) Argument spreads.
4) People lose interest in continuing the argument about the time a new one comes up.
5) Repeat 1-4 with new argument. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I guess haha.  But as long as the question is answered i'm cool with it.  so thanks everyone.  some hobby shop clerk told me that i needed to get the book of vile darkness first so you guys saved me a good 30 bucks haha
book of Vile Darkness has some things that can be helpful. HoS has spells for every level.
BoVD:
role-playing evil (not technically a requirement for Necromancers) is probably the most helpful
a couple themes that can be used by Necromancers (I like the cultist and Vile Scholar)
one epic destiny option
Some feats (mostly Channel Divinity, some that let you pass on attacks or effects to other party members)
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