Combat Damage

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Hi!
My opponent has an Elvish Archdruid and a Nettle Sentinel in play. I attack with a 4/4 creature, he blocks with both and i assign 2 dmg to the Archdruid and the rest to the sentinel. Do they both die?
Thanks!
yes

first the Archdruid dies for being a 2/2 with 2 damage on it
afterwards SBA are checked again, see the Sentinel now as a 2/2 with 2 damage and destroy it as well
proud member of the 2011 community team
so as long as you kill the booster creature, all the boosted creatures go back down?
yes, as soon as Elvish Archdruid leaves the battlefield his +1/+1 stops applying
proud member of the 2011 community team
Thanks for you answer. So the dmg is dealt simultaneously but the sentinel has 2 dmg and he dies before my turn is over? Also what is SBA?
Also what is SBA?

State Based Actions

They're the game's cleanup crew. See 704.5 for a full list of them.

egs. 
704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.

704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.

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DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


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Thanks for you answer. So the dmg is dealt simultaneously but the sentinel has 2 dmg and he dies before my turn is over?

correct, for most intents and purposes they die at the same time (noone can do anything between the archdruid and the sentinel dying), but the distinction that they die at seperate times can be important
proud member of the 2011 community team
so the opponent CAN'T prevent 1 damage to the archdruid or anything?
sure he can, if he has something that allows him to do that
Bandage for example

however, the attacker can then just assign 3 damage to the Archdruid
that will save the Sentinel but still kill the Archdruid
proud member of the 2011 community team
He would have to cast Bandage before damage was assigned. Once it is assigned it is too late.

so then if the attacker says he is doing two damage to both creatures(archdruid + sentinel), the defender can say "no, i cast bandage on the archdruid and they both live".


is that right? 
no (not anymore, that would have worked up until M10)

here is a detailed breakdown:

when blockers are declared and there are multiple blockers blocking a single creature (such as in this case) the attacker declares the order in which those creature will block (in this case Archdruid, then Sentinel)

after that Turn Based Action the Active Player (the one whose turn it is) gets priority
after he passes that priority the Non-Active Player gets priority and casts Bandage
both player get priority and pass, Bandage resolves, setting up the prevention shield
after that both players pass again, and the game moves on to the combat damage step

here no both players declare how their creatures deal damage
the attacker has to deal at least lethal damage to the Archdruid (2) and can then deal the rest to the Sentinel. since he knows about the Bandage he will most likely assign 3 damage to the Archdruid to kill it, and 1 damage to the Sentinel
the defender has no choise but to assign 2+3 damage to the attacker

once that is decided combat damage is dealt, SBA move the attacker and the Archdruid to the graveyard and leave the Sentinel surviving as a 2/2 with 1 damage marked on it

then the active player gets priority, etc.
proud member of the 2011 community team
ok, so now the defender can play a bandage to save his 4/4?


or is there still 5 damage dealt to the attacking creature? 
he has to play that in the "declare blocker" step as well
noone can respond to assigning or dealing damage

he'd have to play 2 Bandage to save his 4/4 attacker (or some other way to prevent 2 damage)
proud member of the 2011 community team
so how come the sentinel still does three damage if the archdruid is killed first?
because all damage is dealt at the same time
at the time it deals damage the Archdruid is still alive and well
proud member of the 2011 community team
This is because all combat damage is dealt simultaneously.  When Nettle Sentinel is dealing its combat damage, Elvish Archdruid is still on the battlefield.  The Archdruid is only destroyed and sent to the graveyard after combat damage has been dealt, which means all combat damage has been dealt to the appropriate creatures/players by then.

The exception would be if the attacking creature had first strike.  In that case, Elvish Archdruid dies during the first combat damage step, and its +1/+1 to other Elves is long gone by the time Nettle Sentinel gets to deal damage during the second combat damage step. 
ok let me see if i have this right...


the archdruid is still buffing the sentinel until the moment that he dies, which is only at the damage resolution, which is before the sentinel, because the attacker can choose which he deals damage to first. but the sentinel still gets to deal three damage because he already dealt damage before the damage resolution.


yes??   
no

all damage is dealt at the same time
the Archdruid doesn't die until all damage has been dealt, no matter in what order he is being dealt damage
proud member of the 2011 community team
and am i seeing seeing that you have to know to bandage your creature BEFORE it takes damage?


yes
in the "Declare Blocker" step is the last opportunity to do anything that affects combat damage (either Giant Growth or Bandage etc.)
if you do it any later combat damage will already have been dealt
proud member of the 2011 community team
and am i seeing seeing that you have to know to bandage your creature BEFORE it takes damage?



correct and even before it is assigned damage

this is also the reason the congo line of damage assignment exists,
so that the players have a reasonable (but not certain) idea of how the damage will be assigned

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

so then preventing damage is only good to the attacker?
so then preventing damage is only good to the attacker?

no, it works for both sides

but one blocker blocking multiple attackers doesn't happen as often

after the 4/4 is blocked by the two creatures, the attacking player orders the blockers for damage assignment (but the assignment will happen in the next step)
he can't assign damage to creatures further in the lineup until each creature prior has been assigned lethal damage

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

errr... sorry i think i meant to say 'to the defender'.


but i think i get it a little more.


if the defender plays a bandage to his archdruid in an attempt to save his sentinel,because the defender knows that the attacker will deal three damage to the archdruid, then the only time that the attacker can play a spell to prevent TWO damage to the attacking creature, is right after the bandage spell is cast onto the archdruid?     
well he could play it before or after

the active (aka attacking) player gets priority first so he could cast his prevention first

or he could cast it after the defending player casts his Bandage 

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

thank you for the quickly returned info


my friday night magic teammates often ask me questions that i can't answer.


i think this topic will be easy to explain on friday.(we probbly haven't been doing it right)   
oh and also


say  i was the defending player, and one of my creatures had banding, then i, as the controller of the defending creatures, have the 4/4 deal all the damage to whichever of the two defending creatures that i want.  


that is right ,right? 
don't use banding to explain combat damage
that is one big cluster****

but yes, with Banding you decide how damage is dealt to your band
proud member of the 2011 community team
Assuming that you declared your blocking creatures as part of a band, yes. (It doesn't happen automatically.) have Banding at the time combat damage is assigned, yes.

EDIT: Fixed. Stupid Banding.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

and if the 4/4 has double strike, i, as the attacker, could first strike the archdruid, meaning he does no damage, and deal 4 damage to the sentinel, killing it and keeping my 4/4?
Assuming that you declared your blocking creatures as part of a band, yes. (It doesn't happen automatically.)

That is not possible. Only attacking creatures may form bands.

It is «automatic» for blocking creatures. (those which have Banding, I mean)

so why do walls have banding?
so why do walls have banding?

Some have it, some don't. Why? Ask those who create cards!

Banding for Dummies
A) Declare Attackers Step: do you wish to form Band(s)?
   -No: proceed to B)
   -Yes: announce Band(s) of attackers        
(any one Band will include at least one Banding creature and may include at most* one non-Banding creature)        
(any one creature may be part of at most one Band)

B) Announce your attacking creatures (banded & loners)

C) Declare Blockers Step: opponent declares blockers        
(as soon as a creature legally blocks one member of a Band, each other creature of that Band is considered blocked by that single creature, even if those blocks would be illegal)

D) Players announce their respective Damage Assignment Order

E) Combat Damage Step: does any creature HAVE the Banding ability, now? (eh! they may have lost it!)   
  -No: process Combat Damage Step as normal   
  -Yes:     
    -Attacking player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, except for those creatures blocked by Banding blockers     
    -Defending player announces how each attacking creature blocked-by-a-blocker-which-have-Banding-now assigns its combat damage, if any     
    -Attacking player announces how each blocking creature blocking-an-attacker-which-have-Banding-now assigns its combat damage, if any     
    -Defending player announces how each remaining blocking creature assigns its combat damage

(when assigning their Combat Damage, creatures with Banding may disregard Damage Assignment Order)

Et voilà!

*Bands with other FOOs allows a Band to include of any number of non-Banding FOOs.

sorry,the cards i thought were walls were actually creatures, not walls
sorry,the cards i thought were walls were actually creatures, not walls

All Walls ARE creatures...

and what if my banding creature bands with a creature like the werewolf that makes all my creatures must be blocked by at least two creatures?
and what if my banding creature bands with a creature like the werewolf that makes all my creatures must be blocked by at least two creatures?

Not all creatures; all WEREWOLVES... 

All they need to do is to block ONE member of a Band to automatically block the whole Band.
Two blockers will be enough for Terror of Kruin Pass' Band.

One blocker will be enough if the Band contains one non-Werewolf. 

does any trample damage get through?
does any trample damage get through?

No. Banding blockers DELETE Trample. (figuratively speaking)
That's because Defending Player gets to choose the damage distribution of attackers; he'll probably assign NO Trample damage to himself.