Sign of the times

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I was just going back through a number of old threads relating to the release of the online CB and one thing really jumped out at me.... the number of previously hard core 4e players who are no longer posting anything at all in the forums. I don't even see them posting in the D&D Next forums.

Seriously, just go back to the posts around August or September 2010 (just before the release of the online CB) and see all those names of people who used to be very active in the forums. So many of them have stopped posting anything at all. I'm talking many dozens of people who were extremely active.

What's also interesting is how many of those people no longer have the DDI logo by their picture. This means they are no longer subscribing to DDI. I wonder how many of those people are still playing 4e?

The most obvious conclusion is that not only are they not playing 4e anymore, they're not interested in the future of D&D. Now of course I'm reading a lot into this, but it is the most logical conclusion.

I hate to say it but it looks like WotC has lost a lot of fans. Hopefully they can be won back.

Not to derail too much or invalidate your opinion in any way, but I know that some people chose to take a break from the boards when the new edition wars began after Next was announced. Cloaks of fire resistance might have been short on supply.

I know for sure some are still playing 4e.

This from anecdotal experience, no statistical evidence, granted.

I genuinely miss some of the posters.

Cheers and keep gaming.

I don't have a sub anymore, but i still play 4e...alot of people still play 4e, but cancelled their DDI for other "options", a big chunk of them out of boicot against the case of the silverlight character builder, others out of the reactions from Essentials line, alot of people when Essentials were released, they said they were done with buying D&D books, because it was basically advertise as "from now on...everything will be like this"... and to be fair, for most was like that...Heroes of Feywild was really great and Monster Vault: Threats of Nethir Vale was also really good, thought little short, and themes is probably the only good and consistent content delivered thru dragon magazine...thought even that one have stopped now...but the rest post essentials era was bad or forgetful...the only standout on the essentials line is the hexblade imo...
Yeah, I don't post all that much these days. I just don't have any real interest in the direction Mike's pet version of D&D is going, so I have nothing relevant to say about it. I suspect this is pretty common amongst people who prefer 4e. This forum has clearly fallen a LOT in volume as I assume people first went to the Next boards to argue there, and then many of them simply have no reason to bring all the old debates back here. Honestly the WotC forums have always been a lot more about people arguing than about constructive stuff. If you go to the Endworld or RPGNet forums for instance you find people talking about their characters and asking about adventures and etc. That stuff was ALWAYS a smaller subset of the content here.

As far as actually playing 4e is going strong IME. I'm running 2 weekly campaigns and probably will be playing in a 3rd one pretty soon. I could probably organize more games if I wanted. Honestly I think the whole Next buggery has raised 4e's profile and a lot of people seem to have given up raving about it. Makes things much more pleasant.

That is not dead which may eternal lie
I actually have 2 DDI accounts right now, but neither of them is bound to this account.  I have one account per campaign (so I used to have 3) but I cancel them once the campaign that is on them is over.
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Yeah, of my gaming group, only 1 person still has a DDI subscription.

That said, I'm sure there are a lot of inactive accounts that this site could well stand to update.
I too be honest think that everyone was mad at 4e because it was getting all the attention. ANd now that that has nearly stopped completely I would say that many people will seep into 4e. I know people who hate 4e just because it is new and then have tried it recently and say "Hey its not too bad." The end of a system is always the best part. It is indeed stepping into the world of being a finished product. If WotC was smart they would sell PDF bundles of magazines for everyone to buy. Or even make a Best of Dungeon, and Best of Dragon hard back compendium for like 50-60 bucks and sell all the top material and modules out of them.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.


I wish I was playing or running 4e, but my regular group likes their uber-casters and full attacks.

I don't post often because there isn't much to talk about. The last few '4e' releases have been kind of a joke, and there isn't much in D&D mags worth mentioning, save for a few adventures. I could go troll the Next boards, but that's the work of, well, trolls. (I honestly tried being productive on those boards, but always found my time there being snarky, irritated, or simply disinterested, so I left. Guess you could say the same thing about the Pathfinder boards. They say bad press or negative attention is better than nothing, so i'm giving them all a whole lot of nothing.)

But...yeah, we may as well be discussing Monopoly at this point, as the game is finished. The only thing this board can be used for is moaning about the (current) future of no new 4e expansions or adjustments, war stories, houserules, homebrew, the newbie 'where do I start' topics, and rules questions.

Maybe we could jointly try to 'fix' or fill in holes in the game as it stands as a community? Like, one week we single out something that could use patching and collectively throw fixes at the wall to see if any stick, vote on the preferred fix (perhaps after lots of tweaking and testing), and then move on to the next probem area.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
I know that some people chose to take a break from the boards when the new edition wars began after Next was announced.

I think this  is a fair assessment.

My guess is WotC may have lost a lot of fans, but 4e has not. At the same time, Next seems to bringing in commentary from folks I have never seen before, so it might be a simple ebb and flow.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I completely agree. I was one of the first people that I know to take interest in 4E way back before the release of the first 4E Players Handbook. It brought me back to my favorite past time, and I proceeded to subscribe to DDI and pre-order every single book, adventure and product that released right up until Wizards announced Essentials. That's when I decided to not buy anymore player source material as it began to not really suit the 4E stuff that came before it. I cancelled my sub just before the online builder launched. 

Another really sore spot for me was the cancelation of miniatures. My support for WotC really dropped off after that, but the real dealbreaker for me was D&D Next. Between 2008 and 2011 I had spent upwards of $2000 on books, minis and material for D&D much to the dismay of my lovely wife. Only for my edition to be abandoned after a mere 3 years!?!

I have no interest in Next, I feel like 4E was pretty much abandoned after I had invested so much of my hard earned money into it, So why would I (or should I) start all over again with a new edition that seems like two steps in the wrong direction?

I still play alot of 4E, and it will be my preferred edition going forward. WotC and D&D Next gets none of my support, time or money. It's far too soon for a new edition, and I am pretty sure that every D&D gamer that I know is either playing Pathfinder or shaking their heads at D&D Next.

Personally I hope Next flops completely and the 4E will be the ones pointing and laughing and saying "I told you so" despite all of the "game testers" trying to sell us that Next is going to be great.

I don't buy it and I won't buy it. I am more curious to see how many people are like me and are boycotting it. I know guys on twitter that are vocal about their dis-taste are being trolled for voicing their opinions.

Personally, I think that you should play whatever version of the game you like. Power to you and your gaming group! I don't care if you play 2nd Edition, 4th Edition or Pathfinder, you should enjoy your game and don't try to convince everyone that your edition is better than a version of the game that has lapsed. I personally never try to compare editions.

Plus I am still pissed that I spent so much money only to be abandoned by WotC.

Plus I am still pissed that I spent so much money only to be abandoned by WotC.

TThats casual WotC though. 2e fans felt that way when 3e was released, 3e fans felt that was when 3.5 was released, and 3.5 fans felt that way when 4e was released. ITs a vicious cycle that won't end until the support every edition.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.


Actually, I was happy with each new edition.
Until Essentials.
After that, the quality of content went way down.

Really, 4e needed some quality control and PROOFREADING. That said, I still enjoy it.
And I will be one of those boycotting Next.

I mean c'mon. "Next"? It's like those software marketers that keep changing the numbering system on software. Whatever the system is, stick with it.  Macromedia created the MX suite, so we went from Dreamweaver5 to DreamweaverMX. Then MX2. Then the company was bought by Adobe. So now we have CreativeSuite numbering. Ug. Totally unnecessary.
"Next"? Just call it "5". Otherwise, what will the following edition be? "Next Plus"?
I haven't been posting because I don't like the direction D&DN is going, and I'm tired of arguing with people who share a totally different idea of what good game design is. I'm going to be playing 4e with or without official online support for a while.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling


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57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
I'm currently on hiatus from the forums and the game.  Once DDN gets closer to release, I'll check back in more regularly.

In the thirty years I've been DnDing, this is the first significant break I've ever taken.  Our playtests have fizzled (nobody's even interested in a 'pick-up' game of 4e).  I've let my DDI sub expire for the first time since launch.  

I'm ready for a break, need time to re-ignite my enthusiasm for the game ;).
/\ Art
I found it very odd at the books store today to see brand new re-releases of 3.5 books. Huh?
Guess they're being nostalgic for a system that they ended only a few years ago? Or are they trying to cut into the Pathfinder sales?

Oh well.
I found it very odd at the books store today to see brand new re-releases of 3.5 books. Huh?
Guess they're being nostalgic for a system that they ended only a few years ago? Or are they trying to cut into the Pathfinder sales?

Oh well.

No, they're just desperate for SOMETHING to sell. I mean imagine you're the D&D product line manager and you have NO CASHFLOW. lol. I mean I don't know what the last 'generic' setting book they put out sold, but I doubt it was much. The DSG was a pretty crappy book TBH. They have nothing but DDI for 18 more months? Yeah, the reprints thing is just sheer desperation.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Plus- it costs them nothing to release crap that has already been created. The upcoming S and A series is silly. I'd rather keep my originals.
i remember the boards around the time of the PHB3's release and prior to that, jeez the edition felt so prosperous then, the posters so nice, and everyone so excited- i still love 4e to death, even with the essentials stuff and HOS, i still love it- but it's felt like a depressing story since then in regards to how it's been treated by newer staff.


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