Making half-dragons

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I've found a monster advancer for 3.5, it's a program that does the majority of the work for you (it has some flaws though) at http://www.monsteradvancer.com/. Now, I'm making some half-dragons for an eberron dragon campaign, and... well, it says that half-dragon can be applied to any living, corporeal creature. So undead of all types are out, doubly so for ghosts. Some things, though, stretch the credibility. For instance, animated objects - how does a dragon mate with a chair, anyway? Animated objects would fall under objects rather than creatures, just like golems and other constructs would. By that logic, would treants and other plants be exempt? And would aberrations be exempt due to their "bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three"? Elementals are probably out because... I don't know how elementals mate, if they do at all (I think they just spring into being as the smallest type, grow and return to the earth/fire/wind/water etc from whence they came; and do they have a language?). Anything but a red dragon would burn themself mating with a fire elemental, I can just imagine. As for outsiders, a dragon would have to visit another plane or find a creature that's visiting the prime material.  

I think that leaves animals, vermin, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, fey, magical beasts, dragons, giants, outsiders, and anything I've missed. Aberrations might go in this list. Oh, and dragons, obviously. Don't think I'd forgotten that. 

It rules out undead and spirits, animated objects, constructs (unless they're living, somehow, and able to reproduce OR if "A wizard did it" applies), plants, elementals and oozes. 

That's my logic.
Half-Dragons are made when a dragon Polymorphs into another being and mates with it. With that in mind, they could technically mate with plants, elementals and oozes. It's probably best to assume that those are very rare...
Is there a question there or is that just a declaration?

If you want to know what Half-Dragon can be applied to then Undead and Constructs (which include animated objects) are just out.  Techinically any other creature type meets the requirements provided it is not incorporeal.

Elementals ARE living creatures so they meet the criteria although I probably would not add half-dragon to one.  Just because it is legal doesn't mean it should be done.  I'll need to do some looking but aren't there some elemental types that are not the traditional "elementals" or are most of those going to be outsiders with an elemental subtype?

Oozes are much like elementals, legal but illogical from many points of view.

When it comes to Half-Dragon Plant types I don't see any issues there.  I believe there are plant types that have humanoid forms (unless all of those are Fey) so that should fix one problem.  You need to remember that some plants reproduce just like animals although they may need a little help doing the deed. 


That being said, if a creature is capable of mating and having offspring there is no reason why a dragon can't breed with it while polymorphed, regardless of being spliced by a wizard or because, just because.

However keep in mind that you are applying a template to a template, as it were. I beleive there is both a Plant and an Ooze template, so you could apply the Half Dragon to either creature, or you could aply those templates to the Dragon.


I will have to look up those templates to confirm, but you could have a Half Dragon Ooze, or Half Dragon plant or you could have an Ooze Dragon, or Plant Dragon, depending on which way you applied the templates.
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Another thing that this brings to mind is adding the Half Dragon template to a Dragon. Example, What happens when a Red Dragon breeds with a White Dragon? And which way would you apply the templates?
Another thing that this brings to mind is adding the Half Dragon template to a Dragon. Example, What happens when a Red Dragon breeds with a White Dragon? And which way would you apply the templates?

My thought on that is simply that you can not apply the "half-dragon" template to a character that is already a Dragon type creature.  The rules may permit it but it does give you some pretty crazy things.

I know the true dragons mating across species lines has been discussed MANY times before with all kinds of outcomes.  There are various sources that offer suggestions on merging the two and using parts from both parents to determine the hybreds abilities.  If you're going to insist on using the half-dragon dragon I'd apply the template to the weaker of the base species which for the Red/White means a half-red dragon white dragon.
That is what I am thinking too. I would apply the template to either one, but only increase the Hit die if the template's type was large and the same with the Natural Armor I would only  increase it's natural armor if the other dragons was higher and even then only by the difference to a max of +4. As for the breath Weapon, I would give it that breath weapon as the other only 1d less then the main's. So  wyrmling Red Dragon with White dragon template would gain a 2d6 Fire and 1d6 Cone of Cold, and a Wyrmling white dragon 1d6 Cold would get nothing until it's next age category.


I think there is no dirrect way to apply it, since obviously applying a White Dragon template to a Red Dragon shouldn't give a wyrmling a 6d8 Breath weapon or +4 AC.  
I tremble at the thought of a half-white red dragon.  As a wyrmling the CR goes up to that of an advance very young dragon (CR 6 is more then the base CR5 but less then the young's CR7) but except for the lost HD it is quite a step.  The AC will be about the same, the half breeds STR makes up for much of the BAB difference and gives it more damage, it will pick up a second breath weapon, and perhaps most importantly it would gain immunity against its energy vulnerability.
 
True, but again the CR goes up, but it's reach/AC and hp stay the same. The breath weapon  would work on the same timer as the main breath weapon so it would be one or the other (not 2 seperate breath weapons) but you get a unique dragon encounter at a lower tier.


The Red and White Dragon combination of Imunities and Weaknesses should perhaps cancel each other out. So it would have neither imunity nor weakness.  
Sorry, I did mean to ask a question: what creature types would be ruled out by logic? And the types I broke them down into were what those I thought would work and those which I thought wouldn't. 

So...

Works: animals, vermin, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, fey, magical beasts, (other coloured) dragons, giants, outsiders, aberrations (but the dragon would have to find a way to mate with Whatever That is). So Aberrations would be conditional, but possible. 

Doesn't work: undead and spirits, as stated in the template. Animated objects, constructs, plants, elementals and oozes - I'd have thought those would be out of the question, but plants, elementals and oozes could maybe work, from what I'm reading in your replies. 

Do people agree?

Half-red white dragon (or half-white red dragon) sounds awesome. I'm so throwing that at my party some time.  
Ruling out half breeds by "logic" should actually remove all of them.  Maybe a true dragon could reproduce with anothe true dragon of a different type but just like you don't see human/sheep crossbreds you shouldn't see dragon/human crosses.

And just so we're clear Constructs, which includes those animated objects, is just out as well.  No CON means unliving. 
Why not Oozes? I assume they breed? And there is also the Ooze template which can be applied to other creatures, so I beleive you could do this either way.

As for the Undead and Spirit, while it is True that Half-Dragon can't be directly applied, it just means in which order they are applied. In these cases you would first apply the Half-Dragon template to the base creature and then apply the Spirit or Undead template to that result.

For Example: 

Step-1:Start with a base creature, liek the Rakshasa

Step-2: Add the Half-Dragon Template. You now have a Half-Dragon Rakshasa

Step-3: Apply the Lich template. You now have a Half-Dragon Rakshasa Lich


Of course this only applies to templated Undead. Not to Undead that are already undead and that don't have a template, such as a Devourer, Nightshade, Shadow, and Wraiths
      
I was fooling around with some ideas after reading Savage Species. They have a  Multi-Headed template. In theory all heads must be from the base creature. Suppose you ignore this rule? You could put a red,white and blue head on the same dragon? I wanted to call this dragon Starznstripesfureva, and play a Fourth of July adventure.

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

Patriotic as it sounds, Tiamat and WotC will sue, they have the copyright.
You've got it all wrong, Neue. That's only if he tried to recreate the Olympic flag.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
The DM can of course ignore all rules and simply make seperate heads, there is Tiamat, which is already all heads over this, there is also the Dragon/Lion/Goat multihead thing that I keep forgeting the name of. Of course having a way it was made makes it more interesting for the players who can see where it came from.  
You're thinking of the chimera. There's also Takhisis, which is the Dragonlance version of Tiamat.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
If you add a half-dragon template to a dragon turtle should it fly like the japanese monster Gamara?

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

Could a pixie get the Half-dragon template by breeding with a Pseudo-dragon or Fairy dragon?

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

Could a pixie get the Half-dragon template by breeding with a Pseudo-dragon or Fairy dragon?

No.?.

Could you have a half-dragon pixie?  Yes but that normally isn't the same as "getting" the template.

Are there Half Pseudo-dragons and Half fairy-dragons?  I'm not sure on this one.  For the pseudo-dragon I'm definitely leaning towards NO.  The fairy-dragon is where I have more trouble and need to recall t if it has "age categories" like "true-dragons" and if it has the magic to take alternative forms.  I know I have seen sources for alternative half-dragon types but I think most (all?) of them were for true dragon types.
 
Why not Oozes? I assume they breed? And there is also the Ooze template which can be applied to other creatures, so I beleive you could do this either way.

As for the Undead and Spirit, while it is True that Half-Dragon can't be directly applied, it just means in which order they are applied. In these cases you would first apply the Half-Dragon template to the base creature and then apply the Spirit or Undead template to that result.

For Example: 

Step-1:Start with a base creature, liek the Rakshasa

Step-2: Add the Half-Dragon Template. You now have a Half-Dragon Rakshasa

Step-3: Apply the Lich template. You now have a Half-Dragon Rakshasa Lich


Of course this only applies to templated Undead. Not to Undead that are already undead and that don't have a template, such as a Devourer, Nightshade, Shadow, and Wraiths
      



Of course. 

It's kind of the same as with multiclassing into an advanced class, come to think of it... some prerequisites have to be met first. And in the case of half-dragons and undead, they have to be half-dragons first, then you can whack the undead template on it. But you can't do it the other way around, because the half-dragon's template says "any living, corporeal creature", which excludes all undead from receiving the template if they're already undead to begin with. 

If you add a half-dragon template to a dragon turtle should it fly like the japanese monster Gamara?



I assume so. It doesn't say a half-dragon can't be applied to a draconic creature. So the answer would be yes.
Could a pixie get the Half-dragon template by breeding with a Pseudo-dragon or Fairy dragon?



No. When it says in the half-dragon template that a dragon's magical nature allows it to breed with basically anything (living and corporeal), that seems to imply that it's talking about true dragons as the base for the half-dragon, and the most telling bit is that it gives the templated creature a different breath weapon based on the true dragon parent (black, blue, green, red etc). 

But your DM has final say. They can change things if they want to, or it suits the world, or suits the group. You should have a seperate template for a half-psuedo-dragon or half-fairy-dragon, though. I have only had it for 24 hours, but I don't think Draconomicon has info for something like that. It does have half-dragons of various other varieties though (official true dragons published across all sources up to the writing of Draconomicon). 

You could have a massive rules nightmare on your hands if you start getting complicated. He's a half-dragon half-elf, she's a half-fairy half-elf. That's six races in the offspring's immediate bloodline. Your DM would fricken hate you for that, unless you did all the work for him. 

I'm convinced now that oozes, aberrations and plants are all suitable recipients of the half-dragon template, as these are all living and corporeal, even if some are unthinking or barely-thinking creatures. In this case plants count as creatures, with 'creatures' meaning non-object monsters. Animated objects and golems would be completely out of the question, still.
So a dragon can breed with an treant but a pixie with a pseudo-dragon is improbable? There's probably a lot of draon/elf crossbreeds. The Draconomicon expanded the list of dragons that could serve as parents,the pseudodragon could be used with slight modifications. If age categories are what matters,don't some kobolds from Races of Dragon have age categories,could they serve as a dragon parent? Just some thoughts.

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

To be more specific to what StevenO is mentioning. The half Dragon Template is based upon the True Dragons. The Psuedo Dragon (tiny dragon) is realted to, but is not a True Dragon.

There could be a half Psuedo-dragon, but it would simply be a different template from the True half-dragon template