Does death happen when a Char hits 0 hit points and with 10 temp hp

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As the question states, does death a character die if he has over 10 additional HP when he hits 0 hp

to put a little more light into the situation tonight, a character was playing a lvl 5 barbarian was playing tonight and raged, which increased his HP to +10 hp. After an attack, he was at -8 HP. now here is where my question lies

Since he was raging, does he automatically stop raging (and thus lose the additional 10 HP) when he hits 0 hp (and kills him at a -18), or does the rage continue untill the end of the rage amount, which was in another 2 rounds allowing characters 2 rounds to heal him.

The players handbook was not very enlightening on the issue, saying "The increase in constitution increases the barbariabn's hit poits by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his con score drops back to normal (these extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary HP are)"

I'm sorry I don't have a lot of experience with older editions so I might not be of much help.  Would you mind stating what edition you were playing and if there are any names of powers (like the rage for instance) you can quote?
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The text he paraphrased in the last paragraph is from 3.5e.


I'm not sure if there is an explicit rule for this kind of situation, but I would suppose that the rage ends once the Barbarian falls unconcious, thus losing those 10 HP and dying then and there.


Unless proven otherwise, I'd probably use the following ruling: Thanks to the adrenaline surge granted by the Rage ability, the raging Barbarian does not lose the benefits of the Rage until its full duration has expired, even if unconcious and/or dying. For example, if a Rage were to last 6 rounds, and the Barbarian is reduced to -1 to -9 Hit Points on the 3rd round of the Rage, the HP granted by the CON increase stay for another 3 rounds regardless. After the 6 rounds are up, the extra Hit Points are gone and substracted from the Barbarian's current HP, and may kill it.


The wording might not be perfect (it's getting late here), but I think you can get the gist of it. This ruling should give your player a chance at still making it, and exacting revenge on the bastard who knocked him out.

Sorry for the confusion. The rules are v3.5, and the quote is from the players handbook pg. 25. For tonight we allowed the barb to stay alive (similar to the reason shirebrok stated), but we are wondering if the rule should be changed. Do any other players or DM's have rules that specify, or is there a rule in another book that I am overlooking?

Thanks again
I'm sorry I don't have a lot of experience with older editions so I might not be of much help.  Would you mind stating what edition you were playing and if there are any names of powers (like the rage for instance) you can quote?

Sorry Matyr, it is v3.5, and the barbarian was using rage, thus +10 to his HP
After the rage he would drop to -8hp.  Note that this is not "dead" but rather, "dying".
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After the rage he would drop to -8hp.  Note that this is not "dead" but rather, "dying".

Note: he was at -8 already with the additional +10hp from raging.
Then, yeah, he'd have been dead.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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Then, yeah, he'd have been dead.

Mons, what the question is, would he be dead immediatly once he hits -8 from the hit, or 2 rounds later when his rage hits. and is there a rule you can specify in a rulebook

I just took a better look into the matter. From the SRD:


A barbarian may prematurely end his rage.


In the books and SRD, this is the only sentence I could find about the rage ending before its full duration. If we're going by the RAW, we could interpret this as "only the Barbarian can end the Rage, and nothing else". Taking this to the extreme, even death wouldn't stop the Rage (even though it effectively does, as the Rage would end long before a Raise Dead spell is completed).


Using this interpretation, we can infer that conditions - such as dying, in this case - cannot end a Rage. Therefore, I believe your ruling was correct.


P.S.: I just found out there is something that can end a Rage. Calm Emotions. This seems to be the only exception to the rule stated above.

Mons, what the question is, would he be dead immediatly once he hits -8 from the hit, or 2 rounds later when his rage hits. and is there a rule you can specify in a rulebook


There is no rule that says rage ends on negative hp. So unless you take some perverse pleasure out of killing your characters, give the barbarian his two rounds. 
Mons, what the question is, would he be dead immediatly once he hits -8 from the hit, or 2 rounds later when his rage hits. and is there a rule you can specify in a rulebook


There is no rule that says rage ends on negative hp. So unless you take some perverse pleasure out of killing your characters, give the barbarian his two rounds. 



This.  The rage stays going until the duration ends, or until the barbarian voluntarily comes out of it.
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Mons, what the question is, would he be dead immediatly once he hits -8 from the hit, or 2 rounds later when his rage hits. and is there a rule you can specify in a rulebook


There is no rule that says rage ends on negative hp. So unless you take some perverse pleasure out of killing your characters, give the barbarian his two rounds. 


I agree as well.  Whether it is because you take RAW to the extreme or you make up a house rule, a character should not die this way.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.
I've never seen it played that way.

I understand that that is raw, but at the same time... it's typically hard to rage when you are sleeping. 
I understand that that is raw, but at the same time... it's typically hard to rage when you are sleeping. 


You mean it's typically hard to be angry when you are sleeping.  Rage does not mean a simple thing like anger.
You want to apply real world to this?  Rage is an effect that makes the guy phyisically stronger and to take more hits.  This is when he's already in combat and the adrenalin is going.  The entire thing doesn't really apply here.  It's an extraordinary ability.  Which means it's not normal anger.  But since you don't get it...

If you've never seen some one yell, scream, or flail out in their sleep, you've never seen people sleep.  They show a broad range of emotions.  Heck, I had a friend who slept with a bat in hand. 
This isn't even a deep sleep thing.  If you are healed 6 seconds later, you are awake and able to start attacking again.  You can say that the barbarian's rage is so strong, that it is in his subconscious.  Further supported that 3.5 rage keeps you from doing most skills as if the subconscious is taking over.
I understand that that is raw, but at the same time... it's typically hard to rage when you are sleeping. 


You mean it's typically hard to be angry when you are sleeping.  Rage does not mean a simple thing like anger.
You want to apply real world to this?  Rage is an effect that makes the guy phyisically stronger and to take more hits.  This is when he's already in combat and the adrenalin is going.  The entire thing doesn't really apply here.  It's an extraordinary ability.  Which means it's not normal anger.  But since you don't get it...

If you've never seen some one yell, scream, or flail out in their sleep, you've never seen people sleep.  They show a broad range of emotions.  Heck, I had a friend who slept with a bat in hand. 
This isn't even a deep sleep thing.  If you are healed 6 seconds later, you are awake and able to start attacking again.  You can say that the barbarian's rage is so strong, that it is in his subconscious.  Further supported that 3.5 rage keeps you from doing most skills as if the subconscious is taking over.


Good try but a better example might be from fiction - The Hulk.  When the Hulk's rage is over he typically falls asleep but does not INSTANTLY return to being Banner; it takes a several seconds to a minute.

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RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.
I agree that the hulk is a much better example, but you guys are being way too literal on the sleep thing.
We aren't talking about hte hulk passing out from fatigue, we aren't talking about being angry in a 6 second dream.

We are talking about being unconscious. Knocked out.

To the OP, if his character was knocked to -8 in any 3.0/3.5 game i had ever played in over the course of 8 years and 4 cities in 3 states, his rage would have ended. His con would have dropped to it's original value, and the hp's gained from his increased con would have vanished immediately (usually causing death). RAW vs RAI indeed. And as i clearly said, i know the raw.



You mean it's typically hard to be angry when you are sleeping.  ...  The entire thing doesn't really apply here.  It's an extraordinary ability.  Which means it's not normal anger.  But since you don't get it...



No, that's not what i meant, but please feel free to continue to tell me what you think i mean and then tell me that i "don't get it" when i CLEARLY said that i DO know the raw, but have never actually seen in played that way anywhere.


I agree that the hulk is a much better example, but you guys are being way too literal on the sleep thing.
We aren't talking about hte hulk passing out from fatigue, we aren't talking about being angry in a 6 second dream.

We are talking about being unconscious. Knocked out.

To the OP, if his character was knocked to -8 in any 3.0/3.5 game i had ever played in over the course of 8 years and 4 cities in 3 states, his rage would have ended. His con would have dropped to it's original value, and the hp's gained from his increased con would have vanished immediately (usually causing death). RAW vs RAI indeed. And as i clearly said, i know the raw.



You mean it's typically hard to be angry when you are sleeping.  ...  The entire thing doesn't really apply here.  It's an extraordinary ability.  Which means it's not normal anger.  But since you don't get it...



No, that's not what i meant, but please feel free to continue to tell me what you think i mean and then tell me that i "don't get it" when i CLEARLY said that i DO know the raw, but have never actually seen in played that way anywhere.




You are correct.  This boils down to a RAW v RAI argument.  But when you consider that it basically kills the character for no good reason, the DM should figure out a way to make it not happen.  If that means taking the RAW to an extreme whereby the rage stays in effect for a couple of rounds...so be it.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.

I just took a better look into the matter. From the SRD:


A barbarian may prematurely end his rage.


In the books and SRD, this is the only sentence I could find about the rage ending before its full duration. If we're going by the RAW, we could interpret this as "only the Barbarian can end the Rage, and nothing else". Taking this to the extreme, even death wouldn't stop the Rage (even though it effectively does, as the Rage would end long before a Raise Dead spell is completed).


Using this interpretation, we can infer that conditions - such as dying, in this case - cannot end a Rage. Therefore, I believe your ruling was correct.


P.S.: I just found out there is something that can end a Rage. Calm Emotions. This seems to be the only exception to the rule stated above.


Thanks Shirebrok. That was very helpful
But when you consider that it basically kills the character for no good reason,



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Been awhile since I have played 3.5 but if my memory serves me then the Barbarian would not die after being dropped to -8 (-18).  The rage is still going on until the end of the duration unless it otherwise states that the rage ends when you are dying or unconscious, so he does not lose those additonal HP, giving he other players the chance to heal the barbarian before he truly dies.  If he is healed them he wakes up still under the effects of the rage (if the duration has not passed by then).  I see no reason to rule the other way unless the rules give any indication at all that the rage ends when unconsious or dying.
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Been awhile since I have played 3.5 but if my memory serves me then the Barbarian would not die after being dropped to -8 (-18).  The rage is still going on until the end of the duration unless it otherwise states that the rage ends when you are dying or unconscious, so he does not lose those additonal HP, giving he other players the chance to heal the barbarian before he truly dies.  If he is healed them he wakes up still under the effects of the rage (if the duration has not passed by then).  I see no reason to rule the other way unless the rules give any indication at all that the rage ends when unconsious or dying.



And there is no such rule.
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