Help Needed: 3.5e Mad Alchemist

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I have an idea for a character but really have no idea where to even start. The concept is a mad alchemist who primarily throws things that he creates at enemies (alchemists fire etc). Ammunition shouldn't be too much of a problem, the DM has some houseruled stuff to make item creation a bit easier. What I was thinking was take a few levels of wizard to be able to cast invisibility, possibly going as high as greater invisibility, and the rest of the character levels would be rogue. This would also allow me to create some useful potions for the rest of the party on top of nearly always being able to sneak attack. The character is starting at level twelve and we are playing 3.5 edition, and the DM has brought the 3.0 alchemy stuff into the campaign. Any advice is greatly appreciated Smile
Why not play an Artificer?
There's actually a Pestige Class in Magic of Eberron that does exactly what you're asking for. It also allows you to combine alchemical substances with magical effects. It's primarily designed for an artificer, which combines limited "casting" with the skills, trapfinding, and UMD of a rogue, plus pretty much every Item Creation feat in the game.
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Add in the Grenadier and Mad Alchemist feats from PHBII (I believe) and you're well on your way towards your desired character.
Unfortunately Artificer and Magic of Eberron are not permitted, after looking them over I agree they seem to be right up my ally but the DM says no dice. Grenadier and Mad Alchemist feats are both nice and I'll be grabbing those for sure. So given my constraints is rogue/wizard the correct choice?
CJ, why don't you try to be helpgul?  Within the constraints (specifically, wanting to play a missile alchemist), what classes should he use, feats, skills (if any are necessary other than Craft (Alchemy)), etc?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
The concept may be weak, but it might be salvageable. The OP is right about one thing: thrown alchemical weapons + sneak attack isn't awful, assuming you can afford the ammo. However, you don't need to be a rogue to do it. You can even do it as a spellcaster, particularly as an artificer - as soon as you can, craft a staff of Hunter's Eye and use that to get sneak attack. You can also use swordsage 2 (timed correctly) to pick up Assassin's Stance as well as a few sneaky maneuvers - or use SSage 1 or Martial Study + a set of Shadow Hands (the gloves at the back of the ToB) to get Assassin's Stance with less of a level sink. Those are ways of getting Sneak Attack on a spellcaster without giving up too much elsewhere.

I'm away from my books and can't comment on the alchemist savant. I recall it being pretty bad, so you probably aren't missing much without it.

Since the DM's banned artificer, though, I don't think you'll have much luck. Your concept will drag you down without it. And pretty much the only non-artificer support for your concept is Grenadier + Mad Alchemist (there's also a Pyro feat in Song and Silence, which really only works on NPCs hucking alchemist's fire, and wasn't updated to 3.5, but it's the only other feat I know of specifically aimed at this concept). 

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You might want to plead your dm to allow it but tell him you won't be pulling any tier 0 shenanigans or breaking the game. If you explain you understand your power and can prove you won't abuse it there shouldn't be a problem. The artificer is the easiest way to go about this concept and from a roleplaying standpoint is actually fairly cohesive and flavourful
What frost.fire said, but if that doesn't fly try this build out for kicks. Rouge 2/ spell thief 1/ wizard 2/ unseen seer 5/ arcane trickster 10. pretty simple with a few tricks, take master spell thief when you qualify and you should be able to steal up to 9th level spells when your able to cast them (level 20) you'll get to add two divination spells to your spells known through unseen seer from any classes spell list (I would go with hunter's eye and grave strike) and you come out naturally with 9d6 of sneak attack before any augmentation. takeing practiced spell caster will give you a caster level equal to your level, and you're caster level with divination spells will be 1 higher, meaning your hunters eye spell will give you an additional 7d6 of sneak attack (totaling to 16d6 so far) and wit the impromptu sneak attack class feature from arcane trickster you can auto sneak attack a couple of time a day.
Thanks a ton to everybody except CJ for providing feedback, very appreciated. I'll try to plead my case to the DM tonight, we shall see how it goes. The build you suggested Lashius also is very intriguing, may have to give that a go at some point as well.
I think wizarddidit if you explain it rationally there shouldn't be an issue, but by letting you do this you need to understand to not abuse the privledge. Don't break his game and he will let you play this very fun sounding concept (I'm actually thinking of an npc to fight my pcs with it as we speak)
Well no luck on artificer or eberron, and got an even bigger no on Lashius' alternate build Frown.  Ah well. I'll probably create a more traditional rogue and just focus on poisons (assassin prestige etc). Thanks again folks, looks like im going to have to save this for some other time.
Wait a minute, you mean you're DM had more of a problem with the build I gave than with an artificer? I find that a little disturbing considering what an artificer can do and since which I pumped out only slightly deviated away from using core books.
You seriously got an even bigger no from a "meh" build than suggesting an artificer? That's more than a little disturbing, that's down right indicative of a BAD dm. Of course that's a bad dm in the sense that he's not only uninformed when it comes to optimization, but is also unwilling to learn about it when one of his players comes to him asking for help to execute a cool concept (read: in my opinion a moron). If it was me I'd just roll up a Wizard or Druid 20 core-only style and smash his campign into little pieces reminding him that it's a darn shame you didn't get a chance to play that cool "mad alchemist" concept every once and awhile. If he then tried to pull out some more of that houserule stupidity, which I get a small whiff of in your OP, to hinder said core-only you should just ask him why he bothered chosing to run D&D 3E in the first place.

Of course that's just what I'd do and I have no patience for fools that claim to want to have unoptimized players (they generally wouldn't have the class to refrain from immature name-calling and would incorrectly use the term non-munckin here) for the sake of story or some other line of bull when in reality more often than not it boils down to their fun being paramount to their player's. So let me ask you this, what materials are allowed in this game? Becuase as it looks at the moment the only way to run the concept you've come up with is "not well" and the only advice I could give you would be "get used to being terrible" and that's just a shame. 
The main issue was Spell Thief and I quote, "one of the most broken classes in the game". We play with core only. The problem right now is the party really needs a rogue, a spot I'm currently filling, except that I made a weretiger with a -3 LA so I pretty much have to take 20 to get a lot doors or traps out of the way. I was looking to make a rogue with a completely different flavour than my current one which plays a lot like a fighter with rogue abilities, so I'll probably go the poisoner route and still have alchemy to have fun with outside of combat encounters. We are starting an epic campaign soon wtih a different DM who said he would allow your build Lashius, but in that one I'm kinda set on a psion that throws a huge blade around with his mind... we'll see. Thanks again for the help guys Smile
Spellthief is broken?! Spellthief?!

What, exactly, do you need a rogue for? Use a cleric with the Trickery (or Kobold) domain, and be sure to have Detect Snares & Pits handy. You'll never have to worry about traps again.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Nobody else in the party is able to deal with traps or locks and I don't enjoy clerics so rogue it is Tongue Out
What about a Swift Hunter with Scout emphasis instead of Ranger? Scouts also get trapfinding & Disable Device.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
No access to complete scoundrel unfortunately, plus we already have an archer and I don't like to steal somebody elses thunder. We aren't a high op group so even though a plain old rogue may not be the most powerful thing around, it works fine for what I need.
Is factotum off the table, and if so seriously just break his campaign he sounds scared and afraid of fun concepts so just show him what good old "balanced" core can do... My favourite is a druid for just smashing everything wide open
Yeah can't be a factotum either, no access to dungeonscape. Guess I never noticed the limited class selection before cuz I've always played something out of PHB1. I'll see if I can work something out with the DM next time we play.
Just saying druid is in ph1 :P
In core only, your best bet for a rogue that focuses on alchemy is a straight rogue with a dip into a casting class. You need to be a caster to create most alchemical items.

For your dip, you've got options. Dipping wizard gives you a familiar and access to the best spell list in the game via spell trigger items. Dipping cleric gives you access to the cleric list (which is kind of meh for a rogue in core), but more importantly two domains. Luck in particular is nice for a rogue. Bard keeps your skills up.

Or if you don't mind waiting until ECL 6 to actually craft any items, Assassin works well.

I'd probably go with bard, personally, if only for the skills and ability to activate wands of glibness with no chance of failure. An acid-throwing Bard 1/Rogue 19 with enough downtime to always be well-stocked in acid, alchemist's fire and tanglefoot bags would be about as good as it gets for a non-casting rogue in a strict core only game.

Also, I see a lot of hate for Alchemist Savant. I actually rather like the PrC. Artificers and wizards meet the qualifications super easily, and it progresses casting 5/5 levels. Potions aren't that useful to create, but the universal potion is pretty neat, and the ability to combine alchemical items with poison or spellvials is actually quite handy. If nothing else, combining a decent injury poison with acid means that you can hit multiple enemies with a single dose of poison, without needing to attack them. (And your Mark of Making means good poison is plentiful.)

The quick alchemy feature also means you can craft in way less time than usual, which is nice if your group doesn't have a lot of downtime.

Hold on. Rogue 20 with TWF throwing flasks is one of the most solid builds outside of full casters. Especially if you get to craft your own without needing to be a caster to craft your own alchemical fire. (If you do have to be a caster, I recomend wizard 1/rogue 19, its basically the same. Stronger build, but more "complicated") 


I'll drop the basics, but some of you guys should already know the rest. A rogue can sneak attack on anything requiring an attack roll. 


"Acid

 You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash."


Do normal rogue, take twf and rapid shot and you should be golden. Your DM will probably berate you for being broken because fighters can't have nice things, and you one shotting everything is breaking his game. Especially if he thought spellthief was broken.


Seriously, ignore the suggestions to "Be a druid, its PHB1". You can show him some stupid strong stuff in core without being a caster, or going outside your build concept. 


(You will be throwing acid flasks for 1d6 acid [who cares] + 10d6 sneak attack about 8 times a round. As a touch attack.)

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Another quite solid build is the horizonwalker. (Google it, sag it in Another Forum ) thea Basic idea is a tripper with much skillpoints AMD Access to Dimension door at will. If you dont have a lot of buffs in your group.combine it with a Level of rogue and skill UMD For buffs. Just shutted down a Dragon with a CR 2 or 3 levels higher due to polymorph and.a staff of valiant. Fury.
Spellthief is broken?! Spellthief?! What, exactly, do you need a rogue for? Use a cleric with the Trickery (or Kobold) domain, and be sure to have Detect Snares & Pits handy. You'll never have to worry about traps again.



I'm willing to bet that the BBEG of the campaign is some sort of caster (since Spellthief is one of those base classes that I look at, then bury again...too dependent on the opponent for its abilities).

Hold on. Rogue 20 with TWF throwing flasks is one of the most solid builds outside of full casters. Especially if you get to craft your own without needing to be a caster to craft your own alchemical fire. (If you do have to be a caster, I recomend wizard 1/rogue 19, its basically the same. Stronger build, but more "complicated") 


I'll drop the basics, but some of you guys should already know the rest. A rogue can sneak attack on anything requiring an attack roll. 


"Acid

 You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash."


Do normal rogue, take twf and rapid shot and you should be golden. Your DM will probably berate you for being broken because fighters can't have nice things, and you one shotting everything is breaking his game. Especially if he thought spellthief was broken.


Seriously, ignore the suggestions to "Be a druid, its PHB1". You can show him some stupid strong stuff in core without being a caster, or going outside your build concept. 


(You will be throwing acid flasks for 1d6 acid [who cares] + 10d6 sneak attack about 8 times a round. As a touch attack.)




Hmm that does look very sexy. Any items in particular that would help out with throwing massive amounts of projectiles around (creating flasks quicker, retrieving multiple flasks as free actions etc)? Feats are a bit more self-explanitory with the usual +attack +damage etc. Think I may try this out in the epic level campaign instead of the level twelve one and grab Distant Shot, plus that way I can actually afford a greater invis ring to sneak attack on every flask thrown.
Frown

Don't worry. CJ plays in theoretical games that aren't real, and if you play anything but a wizard he yells at you. In a real world game I promise you, a rogue 20 throwing flasks will be so strong your DM will be in fits, and probably try to house rule it out of existance. 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

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11d6 X*8 = 88d6, which is 308 a round, not 38.5. As a touch attack, which allows you to ignore your pathetically low BAB.


A balor has 290 HP and touch AC of 16. He dies in a round. The CR 26 great worm Red dragon has 660, so he takes 2 rounds. 


I have literally suggested this build multiple times on these very boards and had potential DMs in fits because thats clearly broken.*


Now, technically you are going to be much stronger playing a wizard. There aren't many things a wizard 20 can't do, and most builds could be improved if their classes were changed to wizard 20 but don't let anyone tell you rogue 20 isn't a viable build for a home game. Especially if you throw flasks. 
Wizard 20 isn't what you wanted to play, and you probably won't be running at the level of optimization CJ assumes. 


In my experience most groups have a two handed fighter, a blaster mage, a buffer cleric who prepares a couple of healing spells, and maybe something weird like a monk. Most enemies are straight out of the MM. Most people take power attack, and complain that its a prereq for cleave. In that game, your flask thrower will be leagues ahead and suprise everyone. If your group is actually something like wizard 20, druid 20, DMM Cleric 20, and a second wizard 20, the DM uses entirely classed enemies, and people laugh at the idea of taking fighter level 3, then yeah you will lag behind. BUT If that was your group, you wouldn't be on the forums asking for build advice either.


*Note I don't consider it broken and wish more of my players would play something closer to that power level. In real world play thats just not the case. 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

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"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Haha well thanks for the info guys. Think I'll go in a different direction for the level 20 campaign, we thus far going to be a caster heavy group so I was eying either Barbarian or PsyWar before you mentioned them CJ, good to have confirmation they are strong classes at 20. PsyWar in particular seems to have a lot of cool stuff if built right. Read up on Warblade as well, also seems like it could be a fun character to play with the whole gloryhound thing. Think I'll use the telekenisis focused Psion in the level 12 campaign instead of some rogue variant. Appreciate all the input, cheers Smile

Dude, I feel like you didn't even read what I wrote. I don't consider it broken, but I have been berated multiple times on these boards for daring to suggest someone play something so "Obviously broken". Thats generally what a * means. It says "Hey I have a comment or clarification on this, and will drop it at the bottom". If you follow to the bottom you will see where I explain that I don't personally consider it broken and actually push to get my players to play something at this level, but have had multiple experience where I am shouted out of the room for suggesting it because they consider it "broken".


Commoners killing balors at level 10 - This is a perfect example of the assumptions you make being invalid. A commoner 10 in most games is not killing a balor of equal level of optimization. You assume the balor is stock but crank the power on the commoner to 11. 


NO ONE IS SAYING WIZARD 20 SUCKS. I'm saying the level of optimization and book availability isn't particulaly common and generally shouldn't be assumed. All dragons take Scintilating Scales is a perfect example. What if the DM doesn't own that book?


Asking for citations for my experience is weird, but sure. My current playgroups consist of 



  • My-Conjurer wizard, two handed barbarian/ranger/fighter (no lion totem), rogue, monk, healbot cleric, warmage, archer ranger and warlock. 

  • My PF witch (Note I use a great sword and am the melee tank), a twf fighter/rogue, a PF summoner, and a cleric.


Thats 2/2 in my current actively played groups of different people. I don't remember other groups exact composition, but I play with a lot of them and its generally similar. That means in my experience thats what people play. If you want written proof that thats what I see people play, here is an in character journal I was keeping for the summoner where I occasionally reference people by profession. huntingdemons.blogspot.com/ Do you want that cited in MLA, Chicago, or something else? 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Scint Scales for a Deflection bonus Cha to AC isn't going to help out a Dragon's Touch AC to be worth talking about.

Doing 290 dmg in one round WITHOUT MAGICAL BONUSES is quite impressive.

8 at/rd is quite easy with a wand of Divine Power to up BAB. And he was assuming Haste...why weren't you?

C'mon, he hasn't mentioned ANY optimization at all...no scout synergy, no Assassin's stance, nothing. Without using magic he can one-shot a Balor. Using magic? and optimizing? eesh. That could get sick fast.

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
So a tiny bit off anecdotal evidence is sufficient for you to say that optimization is totally nonexistant, and nobody ever in the universe plays anything more powerful than a CW samurai with no ranks in Intimidate? 

Hyperbole aside, you're balancing it against no better evidence.  We could take a poll to see who does what, but it's not really important.

The main problem is that your input was largely useless since you didn't suggest anything constructive that built towards the originally stated goal of making a mad alchemist (that it changed later is beside the point, since that wasn't known at the time).  It's like going to the Olympics and claiming that you won at swimming by running beside the pool; forget competing, you aren't even qualifying.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I have enough evidence with the CO sections on various forums, I don't particularly need to work.

Your statement of being able to find evidence is just as anecdotal as the response you criticized, and you were the one asking for evidence in the first place.

If you can't meet the standards you try to impose on others, no-one else has any reason to take them seriously.
Mine was incredibly useful. Simply, what I was doing was telling the OP not to breathe the water, which was apparently needed, and most of the other posters were telling him to do.

You failed to do anything constructive towards producing a character even remotely resembling what was requested, nor did you provide any useful alternative.  It's possible that you're not capable of gearing your answers to fit particular situations, but I prefer to think that people aren't quite so inflexible and that you will be able to adapt.

The attempts of others to provide productive answers will always be more successful than your attempts to deny them unless your answers build towards a better solution.  While pure character effectiveness is valuable if applied towards that solution to the appropriate degree, suggestions also need to match the criteria specified by the request; the best square peg in the world is useless for a round hole.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Unless you guys want me to give you the like to BG?

BG is currently read only. Active threads and such can be found here http://www.minmaxboards.com/ . 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

CJ, just telling everyone "play a wizard" is NOT the goal here. The goal is to help people optimize the kind of character they want to play. "I want to play a tank with high BAB & options" is not an invitation for "Wizard with Tenser's Transformation"; it's an invitation to show how to make an AoO tank, or a charger, or a martial adept.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
In CJ's defense he did point out that relying on sneak attack to deal damage isn't the best way to go about it as well as giving me a starting point for what classes to look at as an alternative (and which conveniently happened to fit into a role our level 20 party is going to need). Not having played a character at a high level before, that was constructive critism. That being said, yes he does come across as a Complete_Jack***, but people that constantly feel the need to spit vitriol do it out of their own self-loathing. Rest assured he dislikes himself a lot more than you dislike him, and just smile at those who have nothing better to do then try and provoke a reaction.
Well, that escalated quickly.
CJ plays Schroedinger's style...whatever side of the argument he's on, he can do anything needed to counter your argument at any time with any character or NPC. It really defines his limited ability to contribute, since he's happily violating the spirit of the boards just about every time he posts.

Don't hold it against him. Them types wandering over from BG really don't know any better, and don't realize they don't live in a normal gaming universe like the rest of us.

==Aelryinth  
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Irony Smile
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