Ghost Dad

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Did anyone else used to play "Ghost Dad"?
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
Do you mean Ghost Council of Orzhova?  If so, which format?
Do you mean Ghost Council of Orzhova?  If so, which format?


Ghost dad is actually the name of an old tempo deck jokingly named after the council itself.
Do you mean Ghost Council of Orzhova?  If so, which format?


Ghost dad is actually the name of an old tempo deck jokingly named after the council itself.



This.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
Don't describe it as a "tempo deck".  It was exactly the opposite; a card advantage based deck.  The only tempo-y thing about it was the shoals.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
It's a tempo deck if your definition of tempo is wasting a lot of time. 
Do you mean Ghost Council of Orzhova?  If so, which format?


Ghost dad is actually the name of an old tempo deck jokingly named after the council itself.



It's like a bowl of Jell-O pudding. No, it's like somewhere between a roll of Kodak film and the New Coke: It'll be around forever.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I'm not sure if anyone can be helpful cuz I dont know if anyone was playing standard 6 years ago.
But I've played against Ghost Dad, so I'll try to help. What did you wanna know?
I'm not sure if anyone can be helpful cuz I dont know if anyone was playing standard 6 years ago.
But I've played against Ghost Dad, so I'll try to help. What did you wanna know?



I don't want to know anything persay, just having nostalga for old decks I used to run well.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge

I've never really seen the appeal of this guy. It's really cool that he can dodge removal and ping the opponent but the cost of a creature always sounded steep to me in most situations. If it was discarding cards instead it would be nuts. If we still had old rules where combat damage went on the stack it would be nuts. I'm not crazy about it as is.



EDIT: Did council exist before that rules change?


I've never really seen the appeal of this guy. It's really cool that he can dodge removal and ping the opponent but the cost of a creature always sounded steep to me in most situations. If it was discarding cards instead it would be nuts. If we still had old rules where combat damage went on the stack it would be nuts. I'm not crazy about it as is.



EDIT: Did council exist before that rules change?




He was quite good.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge

I've never really seen the appeal of this guy. It's really cool that he can dodge removal and ping the opponent but the cost of a creature always sounded steep to me in most situations. If it was discarding cards instead it would be nuts. If we still had old rules where combat damage went on the stack it would be nuts. I'm not crazy about it as is.



EDIT: Did council exist before that rules change?



Combat damage stacked when Ghost dad was standard legal.

It's more Tallowisp and Shining Shoal that made the deck super awesome.  Also, don't knock ghost council, it is a 4/4 for just 4 mana + at least 1 drain.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...

Also, don't knock ghost council, it is a 4/4 for just 4 mana + at least 1 drain.

That sounds pretty underwhelming in my opinion. Maybe I say that as a Legacy player...
4/4 for CCDD is pretty bad, the ability to dodge removal spell certainly helped it, especially with stacking damage, since you can sack a creature that's already going to die and save another so it won't.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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4/4 for CCDD is pretty bad, the ability to dodge removal spell certainly helped it, especially with stacking damage, since you can sack a creature that's already going to die and save another so it won't.



It was the best card in standard at the time so the cost must have been fine.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
4 for a 4/4 with a really strong power was ahead of the curve then. That's why it's priced at WWBB and it was still very good. You have to look at the card contextuall because creature power level has significantly increased over the years. 
It's a tempo deck if your definition of tempo is wasting a lot of time. 




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It was the best card in standard at the time so the cost must have been fine.


Yeah, no. Not that I said it wasn't.
4 for a 4/4 with a really strong power was ahead of the curve then.


I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying a 4/4 for such a mana intensive cost is a weak card. I'm only talking about a subset of the card.
Also, don't knock ghost council, it is a 4/4 for just 4 mana + at least 1 drain.


We're in the same environment as Loxodon Hierarch, a 4/4 for CCDD is pretty lackluster.

I'm specifically saying that its ability had a lot to say for the playability of the card.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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Back before Tempo and Midrange were considered real archetypes, it was "the first tempo deck". Today, tempo decks are aggro decks with potential nutdraws and a ton of cheap spellls that go under control decks to stop stablization entirely.

The idea was simply to put Bob to work as a painful Phyrexian Arena variant that also smashed for two. The excess of cards made Shoals easy to use, which fed into profitable combat steps (at the time, combat tricks were sneered at even moreso than today)- but the Shoal cycle used a similar trick to Force of Will of cheating mana cost by costing a spare card (this is where the Spirit Council was actually most useful, as Shoaling for 4 was big enough game to smash aggro decks.) Then if Bob became too painful, you have a number of outlets to sacrifice him for profit, and you ride Tallowisp for an arguable number of auras which acted as removal or as food to shoals, which netted more auras. (though I personally like Shadow Lance variants because the Lance is a victory condition entirely on it's own.)

Long story short- Magic is an everchanging game, and our new concept of tempo came about by Faeries- so GhostDad is now just a grindy midrange deck.

Also, neat story bro- aWinnarisYou (one of the members of Cymbrogi- the people credited with the deck) does Magic streams.
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4 for a 4/4 with a really strong power was ahead of the curve then. That's why it's priced at WWBB and it was still very good. You have to look at the card contextuall because creature power level has significantly increased over the years. 



Plus sides:

Sac outlet
Avoids targeted removal. (Will still die to a sweeper, which everyone seems to forget about blinking.)
Every time it blinks, you gain 1 life and your opponent loses 1 life. It also loses all auras and counters, for better or worse. (Timie Spiral had three -1/-1 counter cards, one of which was an aura.)

You'd probably have to use some tokens. It's also a legendary 4/4 for ccdd, which, while acceptable in Legends, isn't so acceptable in Modern sets. I found them the least impressive of the ccdd legend cycle after Rakdos himself (in those pre-Kaalia days).
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt

It was the best card in standard at the time so the cost must have been fine.


Yeah, no. Not that I said it wasn't.
4 for a 4/4 with a really strong power was ahead of the curve then.


I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying a 4/4 for such a mana intensive cost is a weak card. I'm only talking about a subset of the card.
Also, don't knock ghost council, it is a 4/4 for just 4 mana + at least 1 drain.


We're in the same environment as Loxodon Hierarch, a 4/4 for CCDD is pretty lackluster.

I'm specifically saying that its ability had a lot to say for the playability of the card.


Hierarch was one of the best creatures in the format. You have to look at it as if it was 2005 not 2012. Burning Tree Shaman was also great too. Isamaru was really good then. 
Are you, in all honesty, able to say that this is a good card?

Dude
Legendary Creature - Spirit
4/4

It is insanely color intensive and provides no impact when you play it.
The fact that Loxodon Hierarch was good is irrelevant. It existed, so Ghost Dad has to compete with it. Loxodon Hierarch existing in the same format makes it weaker.

If the card above was considered "good", then tacking on two pretty relevant abilities should make Ghost Dad terrific, if not insane. To my memory, it has seen play in 1 deck, that both abused it for its mana cost and creature type. That's pretty weak for what's considered a good card.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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It was good then. It is bad now.

Is this so hard to understand?  
I'm saying it, so it must be true.
I'm still not talking about the playability of the card itself.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

4 for a 4/4 with a really strong power was ahead of the curve then. That's why it's priced at WWBB and it was still very good. You have to look at the card contextuall because creature power level has significantly increased over the years. 



Plus sides:

Sac outlet
Avoids targeted removal. (Will still die to a sweeper, which everyone seems to forget about blinking.)
Every time it blinks, you gain 1 life and your opponent loses 1 life. It also loses all auras and counters, for better or worse. (Timie Spiral had three -1/-1 counter cards, one of which was an aura.)

You'd probably have to use some tokens. It's also a legendary 4/4 for ccdd, which, while acceptable in Legends, isn't so acceptable in Modern sets. I found them the least impressive of the ccdd legend cycle after Rakdos himself (in those pre-Kaalia days).

Actually, it does dodge sweepers, it's not a blink effect.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
I'm saying it, so it must be true.
I'm still not talking about the playability of the card itself.


There was a competitive deck built around the card. It exists. 
I'm saying it, so it must be true.
I'm still not talking about the playability of the card itself.


There was a competitive deck built around the card. It exists. 


Do you even know what the topic is?

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I'm saying it, so it must be true.
I'm still not talking about the playability of the card itself.


There was a competitive deck built around the card. It exists. 


Do you even know what the topic is?


Yup. You're the one having trouble here.

Yup. You're the one having trouble here.


When I'm the one starting the argument/discussion/topic whatever, then I probably have a good idea.
So go ahead, tell me.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)


Yup. You're the one having trouble here.


When I'm the one starting the argument/discussion/topic whatever, then I probably have a good idea.
So go ahead, tell me.


what does this even mean. 

2 xcore  
Whenever you're done dodging and giving me a reason that a vanilla 4/4 for 4 is good, tell me.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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oh, it's a vanilla 4/4 now? that's pretty interesting.  
oh, it's a vanilla 4/4 now? that's pretty interesting.  


See, you don't know what the topic is.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

oh, it's a vanilla 4/4 now? that's pretty interesting.  


See, you don't know what the topic is.


Yeah, you got me. You've got this one on lockdown. 
Just because I can't take you seriously.
Show

Also, don't knock ghost council, it is a 4/4 for just 4 mana + at least 1 drain.


4/4 for CCDD is pretty bad



I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying a 4/4 for such a mana intensive cost is a weak card. I'm only talking about a subset of the card.


a 4/4 for CCDD is pretty lackluster.
I'm specifically saying that its ability had a lot to say for the playability of the card.


Are you, in all honesty, able to say that this is a good card?

Dude
Legendary Creature - Spirit
4/4

...



I'm still not talking about the playability of the card itself.


Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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He still doesn't get it....

Shadow- In English we have this word called "subset" you might want to learn what it is before making a fool of yourself!

Thanks sport!
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
Back before Tempo and Midrange were considered real archetypes...

Saying that is sorta disregarding all the years between Urza's and Ravnica. There were plenty of tempo and midrange decks in plenty of formats.
Are you, in all honesty, able to say that this is a good card?

Dude
Legendary Creature - Spirit
4/4

It is insanely color intensive and provides no impact when you play it.
The fact that Loxodon Hierarch was good is irrelevant. It existed, so Ghost Dad has to compete with it. Loxodon Hierarch existing in the same format makes it weaker.

If the card above was considered "good", then tacking on two pretty relevant abilities should make Ghost Dad terrific, if not insane. To my memory, it has seen play in 1 deck, that both abused it for its mana cost and creature type. That's pretty weak for what's considered a good card.



It wasn't a good creature, it wasn't supposed to be- It was a way to pump value from Tallowisp or something that pitches to a shoal favorably. It wasn't "good then"- it was a wrath dodging fatty, or it was used to feed a CA engine or make the shoals good. It's usefulness wasn't from being "good", it's usefulness came from it filling whichever role it needed to fill in the context of the deck. It's a matter of counterintuitive understanding and negative space- for similar reasons to why Phyrexian Dreadnought, Sliver Queen and just about any dredge card are.

@Rush-
Retrospectively we can cipher them, but as I remember, it all used to get funneled into "aggro-control", then "Rock" vs "Aggro-Control" and then eventually Tempo vs. Midrange/Rock.
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Ghost Council certainly isn't good by today's benchmarks for creatures. Nowadays he'd probably have to cost to see marginal play, and one WB Hybrid to actually be good in today's Standard.
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WTF

Creature - ****

                   2/2


This card is terrible. 2/2s are clearly inferior to 3/3s. 3/3s are clearly inferior to 4/4s.

You cannot pick and choose individual parts of a card to declare the whole card itself good or bad.

This entire argument is the epitome of idiocy now that its gone in circles on the most useless evaluation process ever.

There's new kids at my shop who understand how to evaluate a card as a whole. Time to hang up the hat. 

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GUYS

I'M GONNA BREAK THIS DOWN FOR JUST A FEW SECONDS

SOMEONE SAID GHOST DAD WAS GOOD BECAUSE IT WAS A 4/4 FOR 4

MOWN SAID THAT THAT WAS NOT THAT GOOD ON ITS OWN, AND THAT GHOST DAD'S OTHER CHARACTERISTICS, LIKE ITS TYPE AND ABILITIES, PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE IN ITS SUCCESS

THEN YOU ALL STARTED INSISTING THAT MOWN WAS RIGHT BUT STATING IT LIKE HE WAS WRONG

THEN I STARTED YELLING

THAT'S A BASIC SUMMARY OF THIS DISCUSSION 

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better