Where's two weapon fighting and rapid shot?

Did they put them back on the drawing board or forgot them?


 
Inb4 TWF rage.

Also, two weapon fighting is in the packet....kind of. It's in the how to play document in combat. But the rules presented apparently represent "untrained" two weapon fighting. The training we have yet to see :P

Rapidshot is gone for the time being.
My two copper.
I'm fairly certain it had been stated by Mike Mearls or somebody else that advanced two weapon fighting rules would be available in future packets, and that the current rules for two weapon fighting were for everybody not specifically specialized in it.  I'd say wait for future packets and see what happens.  I have a feeling that the playtest is still in its infancy currently.  At least, I hope it is, as I feel the game is largely incomplete.
Well we got two weapon fighting, improve two weapon fighting, and greater two weapon fighting.
What they going to fill between those threes, I don't know.

Sometimes, I even wonder if there a max lv 20 or even 30? 
There's a fighter maneuver to shoot multiple enemies, isn't there? And I assume that when the Ranger enters the playtest, there will be greater support for both archery and two-weapon fighting styles.
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i think while they are consoldiating manuevers they are putting rapid shot and TWF on hold, not removing it for good.

remember low level characters are not conan/worf/ronin/drizzt, they are those characters 5-10 years ago

TWF and rapid shot is hard, and should take time to master

how hard/many feats etc it takes time will tell, but the designers play/love the game too, they are well aware how many people like both options

there is cleave and volley for fighters, flurry of blows for monks, whirlwind attack for both - while there are not TWF they do allow some large spoonfuls of smackdown to be dished out

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.



Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e


I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.



Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e

I agree that rapid shot makes little sense. People who fire at twice (or more) the normal rates of competent archers is stupid.
Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e

I agree that rapid shot makes little sense.


tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mult...

rapid shot does make sense. The archer takes a plenty to rush a second shot. 
So basically quick scoping like in Call of Duty.  
I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.



Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e

I agree that rapid shot makes little sense. People who fire at twice (or more) the normal rates of competent archers is stupid.



I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.




I'd like to see bows provide 2 attacks per round again like they did in 2e.      We don't need rapid shot.   Specialization or the extra attack that the fighter class provides is good enough. 


We don't need rapid shot.   Specialization or the extra attack that the fighter class provides is good enough. 

But a rapid shotting, 2-attack fighter could then potentially drop 4 goblins.

Oh, and this guy is even better...

I hope we are all talking about firing arrows in combat on moving targets…
I hope we are all talking about firing arrows in combat on moving targets…

As long as the conversation is therefore relegated to all other reality-only limits. No magic. No dragons.

Oh, and this guy is even better...



That is amazing.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I hope we are all talking about firing arrows in combat on moving targets…



a trained medieval archer could make about 10 aimed shots per minute. That is once per round.

I imagine that he could sacrifice some accuracy to double the fire rate. Or triple it if firing at at a large tight formation as he WOULD hit someone in it.

So first level rapid shot[feat] is plausible.



I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.



Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e

I agree that rapid shot makes little sense. People who fire at twice (or more) the normal rates of competent archers is stupid.


I agree. 
I don't think rapid shot will be like 3.5 rapid shot (-2 to hit +1 attack) at least for a feat.

 Getting sick of seeing 12 years of rapid shot abuse as it outclasses vitually every other archer feat.



Rapid shot was a makeshift solution to make ranged characters even viable as damage dealers in 3.5e

I agree that rapid shot makes little sense. People who fire at twice (or more) the normal rates of competent archers is stupid.


I agree. 




What takes longer 2 shots with a bow or moving and attacking?

I wonder why AD&D gave bows 2 attacks per round?  Was it based on realism?  


Sometimes I wonder if the same people who whine about unrealistic archery abilities also complain about archery not being a viable combat style.
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The 2nd ed combat round was one minute and not 6 seconds so a bow firing twice a round wasn't that unrealistic and you could train yourself to fire it faster via specialisation. Also you didn't add dex to your damage with bows and the long sword was seen as an uber weapon (darts, daggers and bows were actually better).

 3.0 was where the classic rapid shot originated. A the time fighters did not get the -1/+2 damage to hit off power attack and I think they underestimated how good bows would be due to being able ot full attack most of the time. The 3.0 power builds piled as many modifiers as they could to boost damage. The 3.0 cleric archer was very obscene as magic arrows and bows got to stack their enhancment bonuses in 2nd ed/3.0 but n0t in 3.5.

 Pathfinder continues the rapid shot tradition and no surprise ranged attacks and two handed weapons are the best ones in that system.

 Star Wars Saga had the best rapid shot IMHO. -2 to hit gain an extra dice of damage.

3.0, 3.5,Pathfinder
Rapid shot (+10 damage just an example btw)
1d8+10/1d8+10

Star Wars Saga Rapid shot
2d8+10

 +10 is kinfd of conservative. We broke the bard in 3.5 as one of the bard builds had the ability to grant +8 to hit and damage, used a bow herself and the rest of the party except for 1 were all archers. The bard alone was dealing over half the damge indirectly (+8 damage on each hit) and more like 70% as the PCs very rarely missed (+8 to hit). THis was at level 8. PCs then cast a haste spells for 4 attacks a round each.

 Its the modifers you add to a bows damage that breaks it not the actual bow itself. More attacks and static modifers get nasty very fast (2nd ed dart specialist with gauntlets of ogre strength same theory).

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

If we get rid of minimum logic, we could rule that a warrior with more than 16 Strength can make an arrow explodes on impact and damage foes within 20 feet.