planeswalkers and venser

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I've been using venser in my planeswalker deck to exile them after they use a -x ability like lilliana vess. The rules on planeswalkers state that when the planeswalker enters the battle field you put x loyalty counters on it. My friends thinks that it comes back with nothing and dies. Can someone other than me please confirm this so he will stop arguing with me about yet another ruling?
Planeswalkers enter the the battlefield with the number of loyalty counters indicated in the right hand corner.  This is a replacement effect that occurs as they are entering the battlefield.  So you are correct, if a planeswalker is exiled and returned to the battlefield it will enter the battlefield with its initial number of counters.

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

306.5b A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, “This permanent enters the battlefield
with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number.” This ability creates
a replacement effect (see rule 614.1c).


No matter how the planeswalker enters the battlefield, it will always enter with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its loyalty number.

Rules Advisor

there is only one card that modifies the number of counters a planeswalker enters the battlefield with, and that one increases the number ;)
proud member of the 2011 community team

Note that if a Planeswalker is on, say, 5 Loyalty, and you use a [-5] ability, then that planeswalker will go to the graveyard (as a State Based Action (SBA)) before anything can exile them to bring them back. You could use a [-4] ability, then exile it and bring it back with it's starting loyalty (rather than just the 1 remaining loyalty counter that it originally had - the planeswalker will be a new permanent with no memory of it's past self).

~ Tim 

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Notice also that an exiled planeswalker comes back as a new object. This means it can use an ability even if a very similar looking one used an ability already that turn.

This can easily happens in bounce decks with oblivion ring.
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Notice also that an exiled planeswalker comes back as a new object. This means it can use an ability even if a very similar looking one used an ability already that turn.

This can easily happens in bounce decks with oblivion ring.


No it can't, because it returns during the end step.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

No it can't, because it returns during the end step.

Double check the wording on O-ring.  The planeswalker will be returned upon resolution of it's LTB trigger, which is rarely during the End Step.  If the O-Ring leave the battlefield before the end of the player's 2nd Main Phase, they will be able to use a second Loyalty ability.
I was talking about Venser's ability.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

Thanks a bunch now i can shove it in his face... yet again.
one of my favourite moments of SOM was exiling Venser, the Sojourner with his own ability and popping Elspeth Tirel's Ultimate
Venser returned safe and sound and the board was clear
proud member of the 2011 community team
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