Tutor of Orzhov & Pain and Misery

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Tutor of Orzhov 3wb
Sorcery [R]
Search your library for a white card and a black card, reveal those cards, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library. You gain 4 life.
Good and evil knowledge are both useful tools.

Pain and Misery bb
Sorcery [u]
Target opponent discards a card at random and loses 3 life.
A sadist inflicts pain in multiple ways.
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Diabolic Tutor plus four life sounds like a five-mana card, but searching for two cards sounds like a seven-mana card.. When you're playing a white-black deck you're not searching for cards with other colors anyway..
Diabolic Tutor plus four life sounds like a five-mana card, but searching for two cards sounds like a seven-mana card.. When you're playing a white-black deck you're not searching for cards with other colors anyway..

I understand what you are saying but I disagree.

Yes it's a double tutor, but it's limited to specific colors and forces you to reveal the cards. Diabolic Tutor is a widely seen as a bad card (never remotely competitive), even though it is splashable, it costs 4 to cast, you can get any card you want and you don't have to reveal the card. While Tutor of Orzhov allows you to get 2 (white or black) cards, you have to reveal them, the card costs more, the card is two colors, and is a rare.

With all that being said, I think if it cost 7 to cast and still was multicolored, it would be a very bad card.
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Diabolic Tutor (community rating: 3,932/5,000) doesn't count as weak card, and your card is even more splashable because the mana cost doesn't contain multiple black mana symbols.. Revealing something doesn't heavily decrease the power level, that only prevents cheating when you have to search for cards with certain restrictions.. Kiss Of The Amesha (community rating: 3,000/5,000) gets you random cards and is a six-mana card! If you think that so many cards in the game are completely underpowered, then you could state that when posting your cards to prevent everyone from criticizing the absurd power levels again and again..
Diabolic Tutor plus four life sounds like a five-mana card, but searching for two cards sounds like a seven-mana card.. When you're playing a white-black deck you're not searching for cards with other colors anyway..


You could search for colourless cards, though. Lands or artifacts.
If you really think Diabolic Tutor is a good card then I don't know what to tell you. There's a reason you don't see it used competitively. Everything I said is true. Why would anyone spalsh a card that can only find certain times of cards. This would be a terrible card if it cost 7 that would see zero serious play.
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Diabolic Tutor plus four life sounds like a five-mana card, but searching for two cards sounds like a seven-mana card.. When you're playing a white-black deck you're not searching for cards with other colors anyway..

I understand what you are saying but I disagree.

Yes it's a double tutor, but it's limited to specific colors and forces you to reveal the cards. Diabolic Tutor is a widely seen as a bad card (never remotely competitive), even though it is splashable, it costs 4 to cast, you can get any card you want and you don't have to reveal the card. While Tutor of Orzhov allows you to get 2 (white or black) cards, you have to reveal them, the card costs more, the card is two colors, and is a rare.

With all that being said, I think if it cost 7 to cast and still was multicolored, it would be a very bad card.



Which means what? If I'm playing , all it means is I can't find an artifact, land, Eldrazi, or the occasional twobrid or Phyrexian mana card. Even in my tri-color EDH decks, I could see Sharuum, Dromar, Merieke, Ghave, Sen Triplets, Kaalia, Teneb, or Doran using this.

I'd say just make it a seven-mana card that tutors any two cards.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
As the many responses in previous threads and community ratings of the cards tell you, most people don't share your views on power levels.. Since you're asking for comments + feedback here, but don't respect different opinions when it comes to power levels, you should probably always state in your first post that you believe that similar existing cards are completely underpowered, and that you're designing cards only for the most powerful competitive decks, but that you're ignoring limited formats + casual play..
In limited, the Tutor would not be a very good card, because in some cases you would just get 1 card instead of 2. Imagine getting one card for 7 mana.

Look at the rating of Diabolic Tutor and compare it to Vampiric Tutor or Demonic Tutor.

And... I'm designing cards only for the most powerful competitive decks? I didn't realize Pain and Misery was some game breaking card. What's wrong with that one? More over, since when has white/black been super competitive colors? 

For what it's worth, I do respect your opinion, I even told you I understood where you are coming from. I just disagree with you.
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Most black-white "limited" decks could "draw" their best two cards and gain four life for just five mana, and many casual players love Diabolic Tutor and rated the card (community rating: 3,932/5,000) pretty high.. Although Specter's Wail (community rating: 2,339/5,000) is less effective, adding another ability that makes that player lose 15% of his or her life makes the card rather powerful!
Most black-white "limited" decks could "draw" their best two cards and gain four life for just five mana, and many casual players love Diabolic Tutor and rated the card (community rating: 3,932/5,000) pretty high.. Although Specter's Wail (community rating: 2,339/5,000) is less effective, adding another ability that makes that player lose 15% of his or her life makes the card rather powerful!

No competitive players like Diabolic Tutor. It's not particuarly good because it's sorcery speed, and it costs so much, it's impossible to tutor something and play it on the same turn until mid to late game. Seriously, look at other tutors like the ones I mentioned.

Specter's Wail is a very bad card that's old, and doesn't cost two black. Pain and Misery is Specter's Wail + Bump in The Night (without the flashback). Two cards that aren't particuarly good.
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Your version allows you to cast a two-mana card plus a one-mana card, but you'll spend two mana rather then three mana and you'll spend one card rather than multiple cards.. You're free to design cards that are strong enough for tournaments without being overpowered in other formats, that's possible but difficult..
Your version allows you to cast a two-mana card plus a one-mana card, but you'll spend two mana rather then three mana and you'll spend one card rather than multiple cards.. You're free to design cards that are strong enough for tournaments without being overpowered in other formats, that's possible but difficult..

Correction. My version allows me to cast a normally splashable 2 mana card that's a bad card, plus a decent 1 mana card without the flashback. Two common cards that aren't competitive by any means. My card is an uncommon that costs BB. Seriously, think about that.

It's definatly not overpowed. Hymn To Toruach is overpowered.

There's nothing wrong with making good cards dude.  
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
Your other cards have more problems, for example that three-mana Coercion + Coercion.. You should avoid that repeating discussion in your threads by posting weaker cards or by writing something about that in your opening post.. "I'm convinced that similar cards are completely underpowered. Please focus on the design rather than the power levels."
Your other cards have more problems, for example that three-mana Coercion + Coercion.. You should avoid that repeating discussion in your threads by posting weaker cards or by writing something about that in your opening post.. "I'm convinced that similar cards are completely underpowered. Please focus on the design rather than the power levels."

There wasn't a general consenus that the card you are talking about was overpowered. 

Again, Coercion is a bad (common) card that no one uses. Do you think Coercion is a good card? If so, why? If not why is a double Coercion that probably won't be played until after turn 4 broken? Do you think that White and Black are a very powerful color combination?

Do you honestly think Pain and Misery is overpowered? Is a normally splashable 2 mana card that's a bad card (Specter's Wail), plus a decent 1 mana card without the flashback (Bump in the Night) for BB really too good? Even when it's an uncommon?
I don't bite, don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or thoughts about deck ideas I post or anything Magic the Gathering related. My Causal Modern Decks Swag Flu (Mono Black Infect) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29788619/Swag_Flu_(Mono_Black_Infect) American Super Friends (White/Blue/Red Planeswalker Control) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29772319/American_Super_Friends_(Budget_WhiteBlueRed_Planeswalker_Control) Hong Kong (White/Red Norin Tokens)http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29636557/Hong_Kong_(WhiteRed_Norin_Tokens)
We don't have to discuss that three-mana Coercion + Coercion anymore, most other people told you that it's completely overpowered.. That new card might be a little stronger than Blightning, so it's pretty effective!
There is no such thing as "good" and "evil" knowledge. And while a certain person would tell you otherwise, good and evil isn't synonymous with white and black, especially not when you're dealing with Orzhov, which is simultaneously both. And arguably pretty shady, but I haven't read too much into them.

I'll voice some concerns over the power level of the tutor too, primarily because it has the added lifegain. While you might not have time to nomally search for random crap, the ability to gain a buffer to sustain a little longer makes it a lot easier. In addition, you can chain the tutors together to gain a lot of card advantage.
BW is a pretty durdly color combination though, so I dunno.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Most black-white "limited" decks could "draw" their best two cards and gain four life for just five mana, and many casual players love Diabolic Tutor and rated the card (community rating: 3,932/5,000) pretty high.. Although Specter's Wail (community rating: 2,339/5,000) is less effective, adding another ability that makes that player lose 15% of his or her life makes the card rather powerful!

No competitive players like Diabolic Tutor. It's not particuarly good because it's sorcery speed, and it costs so much, it's impossible to tutor something and play it on the same turn until mid to late game. Seriously, look at other tutors like the ones I mentioned.

Specter's Wail is a very bad card that's old, and doesn't cost two black. Pain and Misery is Specter's Wail + Bump in The Night (without the flashback). Two cards that aren't particuarly good.



Tutors are usually at sorcery speed, and would you prefer Demonic Tutor or Vampiric? Because both of those are, um, very broken. Diabolic is the best you'll get in Standard; in Modern, you get Beseech the Queen at , , , or , but that's about it.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt