EDH - Green / Blue / Red deck - please help refine

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General: Intet, the Dreamer

Land: 40

13 x mountain
11 x island
10 x forest
1 x izzet guildgate
1 x shimmering grotto
1 x shivan gorge
1 x rogue's passage
1 x transguild promenade
1 x evolving wilds


Creatures: 24

1 x flameblast dragon
1 x phyrexian ingester
1 x dragon tyrant
1 x mayor of avabruk
1 x panglacial wurm
1 x trinket mage
1 x shivan hellkite
1 x ambush viper
1 x gatstaf shepherd
1 x young wolf
1 x afflicted deserter
1 x kilnmouth dragon
1 x shivan dragon
1 x hypersonic dragon
1 x lambholt elder
1 x hanweir watchkeep
1 x balefire dragon
1 x goblin electromancer
1 x predator dragon
1 x delver of secrets
1 x scorned villager
1 x llanowar elves
1 x charmbreaker devils
1 x dragon hatchling

spells: 27

1 x full moon's rise
1 x spelltwine
1 x artful dodge
1 x wrack with madness
1 x beacon of destruction
1 x incinerate
1 x shock
1 x prophetic bolt
1 x caravan vigil
1 x rage reflection
1 x downsize
1 x invoke the firemind
1 x cloven casting
1 x brainstorm
1 x natural end
1 x memory's journey
1 x infernal plunge
1 x traitorous blood
1 x energy tap
1 x krenko's command
1 x goblin rally
1 x stream of life
1 x vandalblast
1 x chorus of might
1 x titanic growth
1 x blunt the assault
1 x fireball

artifacts: 8

1 x iron myr
1 x feldon's cane
1 x chromatic lantern
1 x dragon's claw
1 x izzet keyrune
1 x tablet of the guilds
1 x mask of avacyn


here is what i am thinking of tweaking:

- since i have coat of arms in there, might as well replace all the werewolves with dragons, not sure if there are any cheapy dragons out there though.

- i like the werewolves at first, because potentially you could get a bigger creature out for lesser cost since they transform. However, now that i can think about, realitically how often will I be able to transform them?

- i am thinking of adding dragons because of kilnmouth dragon, and then adding some more token generation cards to aid those dragons that pump by sacrificing creatures. maybe howl of the nightpack (will definitely cut down on the islands and replace with forests) and overrun would be good additions? also, since I do have so many dragons that pump, would it be wise to include might of oaks in there to raise them even more. 

I was thinking of doing the following combo if possible sometime during the game (if i last long enough to execute it)

Intet + might of oaks + artful dodge + coat of arms (depends how many other dragons I have on the table, i am thinking 5 so it would be a +6/+6, right?), thats more than 21 points in a single blow, so instant win right? ( I know its a far fetched combo, near impossible to achieve)

I added some of the elves to help ramp up mana, and then have a few spells to help boost my own life.

charmbreaker devils is nice because it keeps bringing my instants / direct damage spells back, so if i dont get to pull off the miracle combo above, I should be able to pick off the other players while the dragons keep bigger beasts at bay.

i am wanting to add riku of two reflections to this deck to replace one of the existing creatures to use as the general, that would free up intet to add to kilnmouth.

any advice to fine tune this would be appreciated
 
Use autocard to get better results (so we can see the cards your listing)

like this [ c]forest[/c] (wihout the space in the first bracket) = forest

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

General: Intet, the Dreamer

Land: 40


here is what i am thinking of tweaking:

- since i have coat of arms in there, might as well replace all the werewolves with dragons, not sure if there are any cheapy dragons out there though.

- i like the werewolves at first, because potentially you could get a bigger creature out for lesser cost since they transform. However, now that i can think about, realitically how often will I be able to transform them?

- i am thinking of adding dragons because of kilnmouth dragon, and then adding some more token generation cards to aid those dragons that pump by sacrificing creatures. maybe howl of the nightpack (will definitely cut down on the islands and replace with forests) and overrun would be good additions? also, since I do have so many dragons that pump, would it be wise to include might of oaks in there to raise them even more. 

I was thinking of doing the following combo if possible sometime during the game (if i last long enough to execute it)

Intet + might of oaks + artful dodge + coat of arms (depends how many other dragons I have on the table, i am thinking 5 so it would be a +6/+6, right?), thats more than 21 points in a single blow, so instant win right? ( I know its a far fetched combo, near impossible to achieve)

I added some of the elves to help ramp up mana, and then have a few spells to help boost my own life.

charmbreaker devils is nice because it keeps bringing my instants / direct damage spells back, so if i dont get to pull off the miracle combo above, I should be able to pick off the other players while the dragons keep bigger beasts at bay.

i am wanting to add riku of two reflections to this deck to replace one of the existing creatures to use as the general, that would free up intet to add to kilnmouth.

any advice to fine tune this would be appreciated
 




Posting this so I can see the auto cards
Don't be too smart to have fun
The main improvements that need to be made are mana curve and ramp.

Ultimately this is a ramp decklist because you have a bulk of high CMC creatures. I say you need to improve the curve because right now it seems unbalanced towards the higher CMC spells (really I'm talking about the creatures here there is a lack of quality creatures early on).

What I would do to solve this problem is to include some early creatures which will enable your late creatures. For example dragonspeaker shaman and somberwald sage can really help you to cast your dragons earlier in the game. Your opponents might use their spells to take out these creatures and if that's the case you could choose cards like sakura-tribe elder and cultivate instead.

I would remove coat of arms. Keep in mind that you're only playing 9 dragons and you will frequently be helping your opponents out more than yourself (for example even if they aren't playing a tribal decklist they might have 4 lingering souls tokens or maybe 3 different opponents might have humans.

I would remove the werewolves theme. Again you're only playing 6 of them and as you say your opponents will most likely keep them from flipping or force them to flip back at in opportune moments. You're putting your opponent in the drivers seat with many of these werewolves. So remove the werewolves and put in some mana spells like harrow, cultivate or ranger's path to help you ramp into the dragons.

I think the spell to creature ratio isn't right for a deck like this which is focused around dragons. I would go with 30-40 creatures and 20-30 other spells (probably 35 and 25). Spells like downsize are nice but in general I'd much rather have dynacharge types of spells which can work both on offense and defense (although that's just an example, in this list I probably wouldn't play either). There is a lot I would change about the non-creature spells you've selected but start out by cutting a bunch and adding in some more early threats. There is a hole in this deck between 2 mana and 6+ mana creatures (only 4 creatures in that range).

I wouldn't worry about pump spells or combat tricks too much until your mana curve and creatures flows smoothly. After that you should consider if you need more spot removal, pump spells (generally not great in EDH), counterspells, or other combat tricks. You've only got so many slots and so first feed the core of the deck (from an outsider's perspective the core of the deck is playing out your dragons). In order to do that you need some ramp ability like cultivate. Once you've got the ramp and dragons in place you need some early plays which will help you reach the point in the game that you can make use of your dragons. Dragon fodder is nice in conjunction with krenko's command and burn spells will help keep the opponent from targetting you too much early on knowing that you'll just burn their creature if they target you with their attacks. Late game your burn spells can finish off the opponents. Once you've taken care of that then you can start to consider options like rage reflection, pump spells and other spells which don't do anything on their own.
Don't be too smart to have fun
I've been tinkering around with a intet tribal dragon deck on cockatrice and hope to cardboard it out one day. Some notables from my list that might be handy for u: soothsaying, descendants' path, call to the kindred, lurking predators basically your goal is to set up ur top deck with soothsaying top or even ball/ ds pendant and flip over a sweet beastie on the cheap with intet or other cheaterisms.
Oracle of Mul Daya all the way.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

animar would like a word with you
ok so i tinkered with it a bit. got the following going now:

did not see the posts before, but descendant's path and soothsaying would actually be pretty good additions. 

Here is the so far revised deck:

land:

mountain x 13
forest x 10
island x 11
shivan gorge x 1
transguild promenade  x 1
rogue's passage x 1
evolving wilds x 1
izzet guildgate x 1
shimmering grotto x 1
 
enchantment:

rage reflection x 1

instant:

shock x 1
thunderous wrath x 1
natural end x 1
incinerate x 1
downsize x 1
memory's journey x 1
beacon of destruction x 1

artifacts:

tablet of the guilds x 1
dragon's claw x 1
chromatic lantern x 1
elixir of immortality x 1

sorcery:

farseek x 1
artful dodge x 1
krenko's command x 1
fireball x 1
vandalblast x 1
hammer of bogardan x 1
invoke the firebrand x 1
lavaburst x 1
infernal plunge x 1
energy tap x 1
caravan vigil x 1
cultivate x 1
traitorous blood x 1
ranger's path x 1
goblin rally x 1

creatures:

shivan hellkite x 1
panglacial wurm x 1
doorkeeper x 1
young wolf x 1
talrand, sky summoner x 1
delver of secrets x 1
charmbreaker devils[c] x 1[c]flameblast dragon x 1
dragon tyrant x 1
predator dragon x 1
intet, the dreamer x 1
balefire dragon x 1
llanowar elves x 1
bellows lizard x 1
shivan dragon x 1
somberwald sage x 1
dragonmaster outcast x 1
kessig recluse x 1
goblin electromancer x 1
grave bramble x 1
thrummingbird x 1
darkthicket wolf x 1
ambush viper x 1
scorned villager x 1
garruk's companion x 1
fog bank x 1
axebane guardian x 1
wall of fire x 1
splinterfright x 1
hypersonic dragon x 1
kilnmouth dragon x 1
boneyard wurm x 1
dragon hatchling x1


looking to add animar and riku of two reflections to this deck, but have not come across them yet (trying not to buy cards online just yet).

axebane guardian coupled with the other 4 defenders should give decent mana production. 

overall, a step in the right direction?
Go 40 lands with 15 forest, 10 island, 10 mountain as your basic land suite. If you get stuck without a mountain or island you've got cultivate, farseek somberwald sage and axebane guardian which will help you cast blue and red spells. If you get stuck without a forest you've got chromatic lantern.

40 lands helps to prevent mana screw. You'll draw more lands than you want some games but at least you'll be able to hit your land drops for those high CMC spells more often.
Don't be too smart to have fun
how come 15 forests though? I only had more mountains because the dragon tyrant has an upkeep cost that will take 4 red out of my hands. I guess the chromatic lantern will negate any of these issues, but is there a specific reason you are advising forests over the other lands?
Couldn't help noticing you were shy 1 Spellbound Dragon you got blue, you got red, you want dragons, it's EDH (lots a big cost), if you need more reasons the list goes on. If this is just going to be a fun casual thing with friends Guided Passage is a fun tutor with significant card advantage regardless of the filler your buddies desprately try to toss you, over what they think you're after good times.
Spellbound I totally forgot about. Guided passage def is fun. Thanks for the heads up
Anytime!
how come 15 forests though? I only had more mountains because the dragon tyrant has an upkeep cost that will take 4 red out of my hands. I guess the chromatic lantern will negate any of these issues, but is there a specific reason you are advising forests over the other lands?



Example of an opening hand

cultivate, mountain, island, izzet guildgate, dragonmaster outcast, predator dragon, dragon's claw

Is this a keepable hand or would you mulligan? Now picture that hand with a forest instead of an island or mountain. The same can be said for farseek, somberwald sage, and axebane guardian in addition to cultivate. Essentially if you have a forest in your opening hand with one of these cards you gain access to all colors of mana. The only non-green mana fixing you have in the deck is chromatic lantern.

Also keep in mind cultivate takes you from 3 lands in your opener to 5 lands in your opener (as long as it resolves). So I would consider kodama's reach (functionally the same) which might be better in this deck than ranger's path which can only search up forests.
Don't be too smart to have fun
Any blue EDH deck really should run a Dreamscape Artist. Turn any card in your hand into a nearly uncounterable blue Harrow? Yes, please.

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Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

harrow and similar abilities make sense to me at the early game part, where essentially you lose 2 cards to gain 1 extra land, but mid to late game...its making less sense.

do I just need to get over it and try to find cheap version to include in my deck, or do I have some substance here? the way I look at it, discarding cards is fine as long as you have means of bringing them back in, unless I have some absolute junk cards in here that I dont intend on ever playing.

willing to listen to the suggestion, but just need more explanation for it to make sense in my head.
harrow and similar abilities make sense to me at the early game part, where essentially you lose 2 cards to gain 1 extra land, but mid to late game...its making less sense.

do I just need to get over it and try to find cheap version to include in my deck, or do I have some substance here? the way I look at it, discarding cards is fine as long as you have means of bringing them back in, unless I have some absolute junk cards in here that I dont intend on ever playing.

willing to listen to the suggestion, but just need more explanation for it to make sense in my head.



Mana fixing
Deck thinning
Some cards are better in the graveyard
Madness enabler
Landfall enabler

Even late game, it's nice to pitch an excess land to fish two more lands you don't want to draw out of the deck.

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Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

ok then. now to look for a cheap one online
ok then. now to look for a cheap one online


Star City prices him at US$0.15, $0.25 for a foil. There's no such thing as one that isn't cheap.

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Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Recursion is really good in EDH. I recommend for red spells Red Sun's Zenith, Hammer of Bogardan, and Arc Blade. Charmbreaker Devils is also nasty. EDIT: Ah, you already have the Devils, didn't notice them when I first glanced over the list.

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Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

i actually removed hammer of bogardan to add dreamscape artist. red sun's zenith is a definite must, i can replace lava burst with it. arc blade is good too, but maybe lightning bolt or something similar paired with the devils / riku is a better option? yes, its an automatic 2nd free cast, but that mana cost is a bit high, no? (even if you just do the 3 CMC way)
i actually removed hammer of bogardan to add dreamscape artist. red sun's zenith is a definite must, i can replace lava burst with it. arc blade is good too, but maybe lightning bolt or something similar paired with the devils / riku is a better option? yes, its an automatic 2nd free cast, but that mana cost is a bit high, no? (even if you just do the 3 CMC way)


I'd pull the Incinerate and Shock for the Hammer and Blade, honestly. Pulling Lava Burst for RSZ is a good call, I would have suggested that as well. Mana costs of 5 or less are not a big deal unless your local EDH scene is home to some unusually fast decks.

You might also want to consider a Green Sun's Zenith, and maybe a Fungal Reaches.

The big thing I see with your deck is that you are very light on defense and artifact mana sources (e.g., Sol Ring, Izzet Keyrune, Simic Signet). Defensively, you want cards that limit, punish, or negate attacks upon you. Things like Propaganda, War Tax, or Circle of Flame (can't recommend that one, just an example)... Or even Fog or Constant Mists.

EDIT: Also, have you considered Ceta Sanctuary? There are a lot of good draw card spells and effects in your colors. And a few ways to exploit them.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

I actually have a few artifacts that I'm adding including both signets. Edh decks around me do seem to be fast low cast decks. Which planeswalker do you recommend adding? If any
I actually have a few artifacts that I'm adding including both signets. Edh decks around me do seem to be fast low cast decks. Which planeswalker do you recommend adding? If any



jace, the mind sculptor of course
garruk is also a good selection.
Don't be too smart to have fun
I don't think arc blade is worth playing outside of the new rakdos decks.

3DH4LIF3

Made some more changes. Replaced a few walls with walls that did more than just stand there. Added capsize, which should help me defensively. Will be posting the updated deck shortly
Genesis wave and a mind spring type card would be great. Invoke the fire mind is okay ... but 1 mana can really matter.

3DH4LIF3

Also... rite of replication if you can get one.

3DH4LIF3

I agree that 1 extra mana can be problematic, but the card can either draw or I can blast somebody with it. Ideally, I want to replace it with a dual purpose card that has a lesser casting cost. With riku and charmbreaker devils in the deck and chandra, multiple purpose sorceries I think are a must. I do agree though that the 3 to initiate is on the higher end
Rite of replication Im picking up later today
Awesome. I might play both the mind spring and the firemind. If you want multipurpose and can swing the mana Illuminate

3DH4LIF3

Ill ask my local shop if they have that. My fav combo in this deck though is traumatize + riku. Makes instant friends on the field
Doesn't seem too awesome. you mill half... then half of what's left (so 3/4) and hope they aren't playing eldrazi or praetor's counsel or some sort of graveyard strategy.

In the absence of such, I can see how that would be fun.

3DH4LIF3

Ive been fortunate not to run into either of those yet
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