Maybe Magic Does Need More Fanservice

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I've been thinking about it and maybe we've all been a bit too straightlaced about fanservice in Magic. I mean, it's a legitimate artistic subject, so shouldn't we embrace it?

I think what really turned me around on the subject was this picture:



Now, hasn't your perception of the Scars of Mirrodin storyline been greatly enriched?

I am so sorry I am so sorry I am so sorry I am so sorry 
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Keeper, I'm very tempted to just bomb your email with links to a particular artist that you've told me you hate, not because she's a bad artist, but apparently because you think she's a bad person.

Food for thought.
You have so many different ways to cause me pain...
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Nothing to see here folks.

Barinellos is working his kismesis swagger, best not to disturb. 
I... Actually, I suppose it depends on how it is being used. If it is being used to display actual methods of seduction/distraction, then I'm all for it. If it just means drawing the next Chandra card as a Monroe homage simply because she's "so hot, she causes updrafts!" then someone needs to be smacked.
I should probably mention, since it apparently wasn't clear from the sexy Karn painting, that this thread was not meant to be serious.

I'm just so boooooooooored and everything is so deeeeeeeeead and even posting sexy Karn paintings apparently doesn't get a reaction. 
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I'm just so boooooooooored and everything is so deeeeeeeeead and even posting sexy Karn paintings apparently doesn't get a reaction. 



What? My outrage wasn't enough for you?
I see how it is, I give myself to you and THIS is the thanks I get!?

The threats... [sigh]

Darling, the threats just aren't the same anymore.

I just... I just want to recapture the magic of the first time you sent me that Tezzeret and Bolas fanfic. 
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Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

It seems like the hatemance has gone out of this relationship.
Have you tried experimenting with new kinds of rancorous bile? 
Okay, KeeperofManyNames. I will give you something to work with.

You've heard Trojan Man. Well, I give you Krosan Man who comes around to pass out Circle of Protection(s).

I assume he would be a White and Green Centaur.
What did I just look at?.... 

Why does this exist?
 
Why does this exist?

Because of rule 34.  Keeper thought about 'Walker porn and the internet provided.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Personally, I'd be more far more aroused if he was writing bad fanfiction about the X-men, Powerpuff Girls or The Little Mermaid.
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This thread will surely end with Barinellos blowing the hell out of one of your turns.
It's true. This thread was a terrible idea and it will end only in tears.

I hope.

< 3< 


Also, I have that picture because my one friend happened upon it at random and, quote: "IMMEDIATELY thought of [me]." So... I basically have the same reputation in real life as I do on these boards.
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It's true. This thread was a terrible idea and it will end only in tears.

I hope.

< 3< 


Also, I have that picture because my one friend happened upon it at random and, quote: "IMMEDIATELY thought of [me]." So... I basically have the same reputation in real life as I do on these boards.



For some reason, knowing you are the same person in real life as you are here is comforting to me.  You aren't one of the fake celebrities, you keep it real.

On Fanservice (Legitimate thoughts): I feel that it gets a bad rep.  Yes, it's lowest-common-denominator.  Yes, it's a little degrading, usually to women.  But, I do feel that it is harmless, and it is a way to release some of the more negative thoughts on things that are not real, so we hopefully are less likely to carry tehm with us into an actual social environment.

If you like it, fine, there's plenty to go around.  If it offends you, fine.  You are justified in disliking it, and it's easy enough to avoid, for the most part.

On Fanservice (Random Failed attempt at humor): Heh heh, Look at the size of his CHESTPLATES, heh.
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Dammit, isaic, stop turning this into a sensible conversation!

...Although to some extent I suppose I can agree with that. I'm more bothered by the inequality of fanservice than it's mere existence, if that makes sense. Like, female fanservice in Magic bothers me a lot less because... well, Magic has sexy vampires now. :P And usually fanservice is used in a context that makes in-world sense (again, see the sexy vampires, or siren cards).

By the same token, it doesn't bother me to see a character like Harley Quinn drawn in contorted poses, because she's got a circus performer aesthetic. Same with someone like Nightwing. It's more annoying when it's someone like Wonder Woman, who is conceptually much closer to someone like Superman in that their strength comes from being unstoppable, unmoving forces of sheer dominance. Stylization isn't bad in and of itself, but I think a lot of comic artists ignore what it does for the narrative. And that's my visual communication ramble for the day. :P

Random Art History Sidenote: it occurs to me that Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman are all very Art Deco characters, or possibly Futurist--they're a dynamic mix of speed, force, and strong lines. Batman's rogues gallery, though, is more Aubrey Beardsley or German Secession--phantasmagoric, fluid, and weird. I wonder if you can divide all Superhero characters into Deco or Nouveau categories... >_>
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Keeper, I understood approximately none of that. :I
TEEEEEEACH MEEEEEEE

Incedentally, fanservice is awesome.
Boobs are fantastic and Wotc is aware of this.
I have no problem with fanservice, so long as its even handed (ie; for every cheesecake, they should draw a beefcake, etc)

I think the biggest problem with fanservice is the difference in typical gender roles in typical fantasy, which creative does a remarkable job of subverting and averting for the most part, but Magic is still a high fantasy RP and many of its players might come into this franchise from another, less progressive IP and not 'get it'.

Also, I want a lady that's ripped like She-Hulk. A counterpart to Garruk, if you will.
None of this guys smash, girls shoot crap.
Random Art History Sidenote: it occurs to me that Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman are all very Art Deco characters, or possibly Futurist--they're a dynamic mix of speed, force, and strong lines. Batman's rogues gallery, though, is more Aubrey Beardsley or German Secession--phantasmagoric, fluid, and weird. I wonder if you can divide all Superhero characters into Deco or Nouveau categories... >_>


I'm not sure what this means, but I'm guessing it happened because Batman fought mostly gangsters until Seduction of the Innocent. Most of his villains were invented in the 50s/60s and heavily influenced by his tv show. Superman's villains were invented or massively retooled after Crisis, so late 80s. The less said about Wonder Woman's history, the better.
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57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
As I typed that I thought to myself, "You know, no one is going to have any idea what I'm talking about... >_>"

The idea is that Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Batman... a lot of those heroes strike me as fundamentally being about FORCE and POWER--which I tend to associate with Art Deco:










Note that even when figures are in unusual poses they are usually simple poses made up of simple shapes--big sweeping arcs and circles, straight lines of dynamic force, and so on.

I feel like Deco beauty is less about sensuality and more about stateliness, authority, glamorousness. So, fanservice doesn't make so much sense with characters that have a Deco spirit (which isn't to say they should be drawn in the Deco style, just that they have a similar kind of inner soul if that makes any sense at all).

Art Nouveau artists like Aubrey Beardsley:






or Egon Schielle:





It's hard to find suitable Schiele work because a lot of it is straight up pornographic... look it up sometime, though, the man is an absolute genius.

or Gustav Klimt:




are more about strangeness, sensuality, acrobatics, distorted impossible poses, and the erotic. So, they're more what I would associate with characters like Batwoman, the Joker and Harley Quinn, weird magic using heroes, Sandman... people like that. Again, not that they share a style (although J H Williams III's take on Batwoman uses Nouveau stylings to great effect) but that they share a kind of inner driving spirit that makes eroticism and fanservice more reasonable, I think.

This might just make sense only in my head though. :P
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1) I don't mind attractive persons, in attractive outfits, posing attractively. This does not (necessarily) means fanservice. At least to me it doesn't. The problem happens when a female knight is fighting a troll in nothing but a chain bikini. The same situation with a barbarian woman in a fur bikini makes a lot more sense. Similarly, I have a problem with sexy Iron Man cosplay (if it's not wearing a full-body metal suit, the idea of protecting your body with a metal suit is gone), but I probably wouldn't mind sexy Thor cosplay as much. 


2) This does not mean that fanservice should be more or less equally divided along genders and tastes. 


3) I more or less understood the art history lecture (yay, me!). Could it also be that we like our heroes somewhat detached from emotion (emotion is traditionally seen as a weakness which causes failure), while villains can have a greater emotional range. I don't know my art-styles, but Deco seems to prefer (philosophically speaking) the classical idea of a mens sana in corpore sano, where the body and mind are in tune and in control of the wielder, whereas the Nouveau is a much wilder style, where mind and body can both be muddled and, for lack of a better word, drunk. 


4) I don't ship Tamiyo and Jace, but that was funny.



5) Keeper, I imagine you as Jack Harkness, if he was a librarian/professor. 

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.


4) I don't ship Tamiyo and Jace, but that was funny.



I'm just disappointed because Jace managed to get his spell to go off. Also, it was part white... which just seems wrong.


5) Keeper, I imagine you as Jack Harkness, if he was a librarian/professor. 


Very similar to my vision of him. Except he's in a skirt and only about half as dreamy as John Barrowman. >siiiiiiiiiiiigh< John Barrowman.
Very similar to my vision of him. Except he's in a skirt and only about half as dreamy as John Barrowman. >siiiiiiiiiiiigh< John Barrowman.


I cannot +1 every single part of this comment enough.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

Wizards could do fan service more. How about just ask them to release a special edition X card set that contains fan-service arts of playable cards.

Chandra Ablaze in short shorts and a tied up flannel shirt showing off her midriff while she's using her fire magic to grill some meat.

Liliana Vess is in the buff laying down on top of a creature. Shadows hide her naughty areas. A zombie is serving her drinks.
John Barrowman is on the short list of people I'd switch teams for. So Sexy.

Is it wrong that I like Women in full plate more than in chainmail Binkis?
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
Why should Wizards do it when the internet does it for them?

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Is it wrong that I like Women in full plate more than in chainmail Bikinis?


I don't think it's weird. I get more turned on by accuracy and logic than by a little more flesh showing.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

Well I would say something more but I need to be somewhere. I'll let Aaron Diaz take it from here:
dresdencodak.tumblr.com/page/16
Alright here's my thoughts:
Fansevice doesn't have to be demeaning or cater to "the lowest common denomiator". If it's handled well fanservice can actually say something positive about the character. See that? That's sexy, but not objectified in any way. Emily Caroll does fanservice right.

I'm okay with fanservicey characters as long as the way the fanservice comes across doesn't contrast with what the character is about or the position they're in. Can you imagine Elspeth posing seductively in lingerie? That would be... odd. I would go so far as to say that would be so jarring that the WTF would overide the sexiness and the whole thing would fall flat. Lili on the other hand could totally pull it off and stay in character. Even Lili has to stay in line with the puposeof the art though. Barely concealing her naughty bits while she summons a zombie? That's the "lowest common denominator route" right there. Posing seductively while trying to get information out of someone? That works for me.

For some reason artists have a lot less trouble doing fanservice for male characters without objectifying them. Maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe it more of a marketing one. Perhaps the attention grabbing, cash making power of T&A has no real male equivalent. I... I swear I was going somewhere with this.

Well that's just my thoughts on the subject.


 


What can I say? Countermagic arouses blue mages.
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
Wizards could do fan service more. How about just ask them to release a special edition X card set that contains fan-service arts of playable cards. Chandra Ablaze in short shorts and a tied up flannel shirt showing off her midriff while she's using her fire magic to grill some meat. Liliana Vess is in the buff laying down on top of a creature. Shadows hide her naughty areas. A zombie is serving her drinks.



That would a bad style of fan service. You're basically just turning them into sex objects at the expense of character. It's the same sort of thing as Earthbind. I think good fan service would be something like Deadly Allure without the snake and with some better lighting. Or if we took Keeper's knight and showed her mid/post fight with one or two strategic rips in her chainmail, so that she's showing a bit of skin while at the same time the fight is believable. You don't even need to make it overt, just a bit of exposed back or stomach.
KEEEEEEEEEPER

Saw this and thought of you
io9.com/5966831/what-if-norman-rockwell-...
 
KEEEEEEEEEPER

Saw this and thought of you
io9.com/5966831/what-if-norman-rockwell-...
 

Nice :D
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I'm not sure what this means, but I'm guessing it happened because Batman fought mostly gangsters until Seduction of the Innocent. Most of his villains were invented in the 50s/60s and heavily influenced by his tv show. Superman's villains were invented or massively retooled after Crisis, so late 80s. The less said about Wonder Woman's history, the better.



But I like the S&M amazon...

Why should Wizards do it when the internet does it for them?



So, no exceptions?

Anyway, fanservice isn't so bad when it's done right. Sadly, most of the time, it isn't. And of course, an Auriok or Vulshok man dresses that way because it's easy to make, and good for a world with five suns. The women? Well, bikinis aren't easy to make, TBH. The "fur bikini" of a primitive is a Hollywood invention.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Why should Wizards do it when the internet does it for them?




exactly!
The Planeswalkers and Legends could be drawn in a more modern day fashion like they are models.

Jace is dressed like a success in Wall Street.
Well, bikinis aren't easy to make, TBH. The "fur bikini" of a primitive is a Hollywood invention.


Wikipedia begs to differ.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

The Planeswalkers and Legends could be drawn in a more modern day fashion like they are models. Jace is dressed like a success in Wall Street.




Begone!

And don't darken this threshold ever again. 
The Planeswalkers and Legends could be drawn in a more modern day fashion like they are models. Jace is dressed like a success in Wall Street.




Begone!

And don't darken this threshold ever again. 

Actually, I can see fan art of that looking really cool...
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
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