Deck Idea: Hunting Grounds

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Jank preliminary decklist:

Lands:
10x fetch
8x dual
4x basics


Tech:
4x Hunting Grounds

Tutor
4x Sylvan Tutor
4x Worldly Tutor
4x Enlightened Tutor



Draw/Disruption:
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Tolarian Winds
4x Arcane Laboratory
 



Toolbox:
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Terastodon
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Eternal Witness
3x Mystic Snake


Random tech idea:
Golgari Grave-Troll
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Fauna Shaman




Right now it's a mess of garbage, but the idea is to turn it into a legacy legal oath of druids

Thoughts?

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I really dislike Sylvan Tutor in here; I would prefer Eladamri's Call; even at .  But I'm stuck on trying to find out what the best way to get an active hunting grounds in to play faster than their Show and Tell.

For the set up, you could use Land Tax to help with the Winds, since that you want to get more cards out of it, 3 more lands, thinned deck and a larger return.  Larger pool to Replenish from. 

Also, with the deck fixing tutor, Sensei's Divining Top seems to be the way to go to get more value out of them.

Also, strangely, Kederekt Leviathan, unless STP, then NVM.
mystic snake?

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oh duh lol, nvm.  carry on.

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hunting grounds is useless without some way to force the opponent to break it. your opponents will just kill you with what they've already played, while you stare at the Iona in your hand. that's why standstill decks always use mishra's factory or mutavault
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
well show and tell only gets you one guy, but i suppose it's tru anye more is win more.   it costs less?  could perhaps put it into a weird wgr stax build perhaps with squee/fauna/that white enchantment pseuo lock.

also yeah, i misread sylvan tutor. 

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Arcane Lab and Tolarian Winds are flat out terrible.  Make them Ponder and Daze (or another counterspell).  I also think you need more fatties and a little more diversification on what they do.  I think you probably want at least Griselbrand and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

I also think you desperately need a way to force your opponent to cast spells.  That means either playing more "counter this or die" spells like Show and Tell or playing some man lands like LandStill does.
This deck is quickly turning in to another Show and Tell / Eureka based deck, I think.
Know why that is?  Because that's the best way to get tons of giant fatties into play fast...
No need to be smug.  I think this exploration is nice.  Which brings me to another question:  What are the pillars of Legacy?
If by pillars" you mean decks, then it's U/W Miracles, RUG Delver, Goblins and Show and Tell (barely), with BUG variants coming on fast due to Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay being absolutely insane.

If you mean cards, Force of Will, Counterbalance, Nimble Mongoose (cause that's the real threat in Delver), Cavern of Souls, Show and Tell, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay.
Mind if I quote this for a new thread?  I don't want to further derail this one.
Sure.
Know why that is?  Because that's the best way to get tons of giant fatties into play fast...



No need to get upset.  They're different cards.  Show and Tell is better, but the point of this thread isn't to talk about how S&T is better,
but to talk about how we can make Hunting Grounds work and abuse it.  Show and Tell is a one and done play.  Grounds is a repeatative advantage if you can get it going.

I haven't even play tested, but Winds in theory should be fine.  This deck has 12 tutors.  The deck needs to filter and dump a lot of cards.  Winds does that in bulk, especially with land tax as suggested that'd help.  Show and Tell was a semi-throwaway I added to have enough blue sources to pitch FoW and it'd add at least some disruption.

No need to be smug.  I think this exploration is nice.  Which brings me to another question:  What are the pillars of Legacy?




If you're referencing pillars like in Vintage, it's Force, LED, Factory and Divining Top.  

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Would you be better off using dredge to get all your stuff in at quickly as possible and then having a slight reanimator package for all of the guys you bin by mistake? 
If you're referencing pillars like in Vintage, it's Force, LED, Factory and Divining Top.  



I swear, every time I get an answer, I get something different. lol. /aside

What other ideas do you have for this deck?  I think my guage is turn three to turn four.  Perhaps I'm looking at it in a jaded sense and that turn three isn't possible?  It may work well with some sort of other rattle effect? 

Why not try Standstill?  Is it possible to get an aggressive Balancing Act out?  Works on the same premise as Balance but slower, for discard.

Sylvan Library and Balancing Act?  Suicide Bant?  Just tossing ideas out there.
I'm not sure.  I think Squee/Fauna is the way to go.   I need to find a way to cycle through the deck fast without dumb mill tactics. 


4x Worldy Tutor
4x Enlightened Tutor

4x Hunting Ground
2x Squee Goblin Nabob
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Krosan Reclamation
4x Tolarian Winds
4x Life from the loam
4x Golgari Grave-Troll

6x creature tool box

4x Cephalid Colloseum
16x lands


Well darn.  I thought Krosan Reclamation put cards into your hand from graveyard.  So not sure what to do now. 

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If you're referencing pillars like in Vintage, it's Force, LED, Factory and Divining Top.  



I swear, every time I get an answer, I get something different. lol. /aside

What other ideas do you have for this deck?  I think my guage is turn three to turn four.  Perhaps I'm looking at it in a jaded sense and that turn three isn't possible?  It may work well with some sort of other rattle effect? 

Why not try Standstill?  Is it possible to get an aggressive Balancing Act out?  Works on the same premise as Balance but slower, for discard.

Sylvan Library and Balancing Act?  Suicide Bant?  Just tossing ideas out there.




Yeah, at this point, it's just way too slow.   And to top it off, not enough disruption to make up for it's slow speed.

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Why not start with an engine and go from there?

- Land Tax / Scroll Rack
- Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top and Fetch Lands
- Tolarian Winds and Brainstorm//Scroll Rack for hide and draw.

Terminus would be good here, actually. Who cares if you lose your board, you're bound to have more in play straight away.  This deck should be treated less like a combo deck and more like control.
i think it is a huge mistake to run blue and NOT run s&t in the deck.  yes, the cards are functionally different, but they both put a fatty in play from your hand.  to make the deck work, you need to either embrace show and tell, or else find a way to completely eliminate blue while keeping the deck competitive, because not including it when thats your strategy is and youre playing blue and its only 3 mana is a bad move, i think.

you could also maybe go with an enchantress shell?

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I really like Land Tax, but not totally sold sold on Rack in this deck because you want cards in your graveyard, which is why I like winds.
I'm not sure about Sylvan.  I love the card, but it doesn't actually get you much as far as thresh and digging and the deck will likely have plenty of tutors.
I'm not a huge fan of Terminus.  If you get it in your opening hand it's probably going to always be a card you wish was something else.
Enchantress has always been one of my favorite decks so I'll give it a shot.  I was actually thinking about that after seeing Tax.  Enchantress will give you the ability to dig a ton of cards with the typical engine. 


Just listing a bunch of stuff to get a preliminary list:

20x fetches/duals

Creatures: 17
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Verduran Enchantress
4x Mystic Snake
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells: 16
4x Brainstorm
4x Tolarian Winds
4x Show and Tell
4x Force of Will

Enchantments: 16
4x Hunting Grounds
4x Land Tax
4x Enchantress Presence
4x Exploration

That's 69 cards.  Now what do I cut/replace?  I need more ways to take advantage of card advantage of and dumping cards in my grave.

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The point of Rack Tax was not to ignore the winds, but to power them up and to be able to hide stuff you want to keep in your hand.  Brainstorm may as well go in that stack.

Terminus goes with the rack and brainstorm in being able to adjust your draw out of it and winning off the hop with having TONS of cards in your hand.  If they counter something of yours and you have a terminus in hand, winds within 3 on top of the library and 6 cards in hand: you swap around your hand, winds, dump your hand, draw some other stuff and hunting grounds some big threat in to play with the terminus hopefully on your library still.  Terminus means you're winning the creature race because you always have a response to counter magic.  If it's in the form of Mystic Snake, you now have a body to swing with and a countered spell.

Winds is still the crucial card in the deck, but you need a draw engine to keep it going, or you will run out of cards.

Sphinx of the Steel Wind > Akroma, Angel of Wrath IMHO. 

I agree about making this a control deck. Using less slots for the win but having a stronger winning power. I feel like control into combo could be the new face of tempo some day.

Playing blue in this strategy without Show and Tell is not a strictly bad choice. It doesn't work like that. They ARE different cards, with different needs. The benefit, as far as I'm concerned, that's worth abusing in Hunting Grounds is on the other side of the BIGFATCREATURECHEAT spectrum from SnT. SnT is a combo strategy meaning I do this I win. Grounds would be control meaning I protect this you lose.

Playing Show and Tell seems like a bad choice because: You want to have a much smaller amount of fatties to drop than SnT decks, as your plan shouldn't be to focus all of your actions on making that happen fast. That means SnT would be dead pretty often. Maybe your sideboard could transform you into more fatties+SnT but that's not the route I would take.


On the other hand, what the hell do I know? Keep at it!