Would you buy 5E right now (11-13-12)?

"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Of course not.  Limited class selection, limited spell/ability/feat selection, some classes are hideously balanced.

But I support the process it represents wholeheartedly.
Why no, I wouldn't buy a playtest document.  Excellent point.

Good thing they're not selling it.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Why no, I wouldn't buy a playtest document.  Excellent point.

Good thing they're not selling it.



Its almost like people are ignoring the words 'cleaned up' in the question. Would you purchase it now if it were cleaned up and put out as if it were a new edition with fancy hard cover books and interesting pictures and things like that, but with the same basic mechanics as the current play test document...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I voted yes, because ridiculous questions deserve ridiculous answers.
I think it is a good question, unless you want to be technical and not willing ot go with an assumption. 
Especially considering they've already stated significant changes coming in the next packet. I think the basic rules (i.e. How to Play) is pretty much done, but that's it.
this is a really pointless thread.

it's like marching restaurant patrons into the kitchen as the food is halfway done and asking them if they want to eat it.
Its almost like people are ignoring the words 'cleaned up' in the question.


I didn't ignore them - I don't think they help to make your question any less nonsensical.  It doesn't need to be "cleaned up" to be sellable, it needs more content.  Right now it's got as much real content as some free online RPGs, regardless of mechanics.


Now, if we're talking instead about "Would you purchase a game built on this foundation?" (which is, I think, what you're actually meaning to ask?) - I have no idea.  Right now, it's obvious that "this foundation" isn't what the game will actually be based on.  There have been dramatic enough changes from packet to packet that "Would you but it right now" is... just useless.  Heck, it might be counter-productive.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
It's not pointless.  He's going to use it as evidence that everything in the edition is just wrong; unfortunately, this poll suffers from the same problems as his other polls. 
this is a really pointless thread.

it's like marching restaurant patrons into the kitchen as the food is halfway done and asking them if they want to eat it.



No its more like marching them into the kitchen as the food is halfway done and them saying I don't like that fish you are cooking because I experienced it before hand, and why would you mix fish with chocalate, what is wrong with you?

The sad thing is its not just coming from fans of a single edition. Its coming from fans of all editions. I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made. Since they aren't exactly asking the question on their own surveys. My hope is they will start asking in their surveys and get what people are thinking...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
 I voted no but D&DN isn't at the point where I would reject it out of hand either. I'll see where it ends up and make my decision when it launches.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

It's not pointless.  He's going to use it as evidence that everything in the edition is just wrong; unfortunately, this poll suffers from the same problems as his other polls. 



Yes, because I am the troll that you are trying to paint me as instead of a 4E fan that is concerned with the direction 5E is going...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
It's not pointless.  He's going to use it as evidence that everything in the edition is just wrong; unfortunately, this poll suffers from the same problems as his other polls. 



Yes, because I am the troll that you are trying to paint me as instead of a 4E fan that is concerned with the direction 5E is going...



I'm not calling you troll.  I just saying the methodology is seriously flawed.
You should specify a few things to make this poll (slightly) more meaningful:

1) How much would it cost?
2) Would it come with just the material included thus far?  In other words, would the PHB have just 4 races and 5 classes?
3) Are you talking about EVERYTHING here?  So, there would also be a MM with the monsters that the designers have specifically said aren't done?

I don't understand the purpose of this poll.  As someone else said, you are showing a work in progress and asking, "Who wants to buy it?"  And keep in mind the designers of said work have been announcing that a newer version (though still a work in progress) will be coming soon...and that the whole process will take a long time.

So, really, what is the point?
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
You should specify a few things to make this poll (slightly) more meaningful:

1) How much would it cost?
2) Would it come with just the material included thus far?  In other words, would the PHB have just 4 races and 5 classes?
3) Are you talking about EVERYTHING here?  So, there would also be a MM with the monsters that the designers have specifically said aren't done?

I don't understand the purpose of this poll.  As someone else said, you are showing a work in progress and asking, "Who wants to buy it?"  And keep in mind the designers of said work have been announcing that a newer version (though still a work in progress) will be coming soon...and that the whole process will take a long time.

So, really, what is the point?



I'm talking everything in a complete game, but based on the latest packets rules and ideas...Smile

"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
One of the issues with the poll is that we know for a fact that rogues are getting ready to change the game. Still if you just look at that specific playtest packet I would not be buying next even if WotC gave me a $25 voucher toward the purchase of the book.
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...

What's more likely?  That they are completely disregarding the majority of feedback?  Or that the opinions on this forum represent a tiny microcosm of D&D players, and despite our bloated sense of self worth, our opinions are not the most important? 

On second thought...nevermind.

Regarding your answer above: why would anyone pay money for a mystery product?  "I'll show you 4 races and 4 classes, and then you tell me if you want to buy the game."  "No...will you toss in another class?"  "I'll have to speak to the manager..."

"Ok, manager says you can have a look at the monk."  "Hot diggity, I'll take it!"

Because I am sure we are all agog to know, I'll ask again: What is the point of this?

 One has to rememebr that the largest group of customers tend to be the casual crowd whether its MTG, video games (Wii) or something else. Thye are definately listening via the feedback they are getting.

 

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...

What's more likely?  That they are completely disregarding the majority of feedback?  Or that the opinions on this forum represent a tiny microcosm of D&D players, and despite our bloated sense of self worth, our opinions are not the most important? 

On second thought...nevermind.

Regarding your answer above: why would anyone pay money for a mystery product?  "I'll show you 4 races and 4 classes, and then you tell me if you want to buy the game."  "No...will you toss in another class?"  "I'll have to speak to the manager..."

"Ok, manager says you can have a look at the monk."  "Hot diggity, I'll take it!"

Because I am sure we are all agog to know, I'll ask again: What is the point of this?




Its more likely that they aren't asking the right questions. Do you remember any question on any of the surveys that asked if anything you saw was worth paying for?Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...

What's more likely?  That they are completely disregarding the majority of feedback?  Or that the opinions on this forum represent a tiny microcosm of D&D players, and despite our bloated sense of self worth, our opinions are not the most important? 

On second thought...nevermind.

Regarding your answer above: why would anyone pay money for a mystery product?  "I'll show you 4 races and 4 classes, and then you tell me if you want to buy the game."  "No...will you toss in another class?"  "I'll have to speak to the manager..."

"Ok, manager says you can have a look at the monk."  "Hot diggity, I'll take it!"

Because I am sure we are all agog to know, I'll ask again: What is the point of this?




Its more likely that they aren't asking the right questions. Do you remember any question on any of the surveys that asked if anything you saw was worth paying for?



I mean I'd probably play 5E for awhile if it were free, but to pay for what's in this playtest as the model for all of 5E. Not gonna happen...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
 ANyone who claims they would not use somehting if it was free is probably a liar. If someone waved the 4th ed PHB2, Adventurers Vault and Martial/Arcane/Divine power books under my nose and said they were free I would say "thanks yoink".

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...Smile



They've dropped hints that skills might undergo another change.  They've stated that spellcasting is undergoing changes again.  They stated that ED progression might undergo some changes.  We have no idea how ED progression will be implemented in the half-fighter classes.  We have no idea how the recent and future changes will affect the warlock and sorceror.  

So, the core is done (which it isn't; at least in this iteration).  The core concepts might have been realized; however, the core math is still far from done at this point.  So, it would be kinda obvious that the developers would mark "No" to this poll.  So, getting a resounding "no" from this poll just proves that the current playtest still needs work.  It doesn't matter if the core is flawed or not flawed at this point.  There's enough issues with the non-core parts to make this poll irrelavent for your purposes.
 ANyone who claims they would not use somehting if it was free is probably a liar. If someone waved the 4th ed PHB2, Adventurers Vault and Martial/Arcane/Divine power books under my nose and said they were free I would say "thanks yoink".



No one said that. Please go read it again. I said I'd probably play it if it were free. I sure as heck wouldn't buy it though...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...Smile



They've dropped hints that skills might undergo another change.  They've stated that spellcasting is undergoing changes again.  They stated that ED progression might undergo some changes.  We have no idea how ED progression will be implemented in the half-fighter classes.  We have no idea how the recent and future changes will affect the warlock and sorceror.  

So, the core is done (which it isn't; at least in this iteration).  The core concepts might have been realized; however, the core math is still far from done at this point.  So, it would be kinda obvious that the developers would mark "No" to this poll.  So, getting a resounding "no" from this poll just proves that the current playtest still needs work.  It doesn't matter if the core is flawed or not flawed at this point.  There's enough issues with the non-core parts to make this poll irrelavent for your purposes.



I plan on doing one of these for each packet, until the developers include a question like this on the official poll. Its something that needs to be asked or they are going to end up with a game that most people will like playing because its free, but when it goes on sale you will hear crickets chirping...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
 ANyone who claims they would not use somehting if it was free is probably a liar. If someone waved the 4th ed PHB2, Adventurers Vault and Martial/Arcane/Divine power books under my nose and said they were free I would say "thanks yoink".


Nah.  There's a big difference between taking it and using it.  I'd take 5e as it stands right now, but I wouldn't use it.  
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
If the fighter released in any way that was recognizable from this packet, that's all I would need to know to say that I would never buy this game.

The core classes are the cornerstone of the game, and if I disagree with them on a fundamental level then there is very little chance that I would find the game enjoyable.

The metagame is not the game.

I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.
I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.



I think you are exaggerating there...Maybe if they gave you the choice of watching a TV show you hate or playing this, you might choose the TV show...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.



Can I pickled you fingers if you slice them off? 
Voted No. I hated the Wizard Traditions and Signature Spell. The Rogue was terrible. It was overall a big step back for me.
I just want to let WotC understand that most of us feel we are far from done with the changes that need to be made.




I really don't understand how one would come to believe that WotC doesn't understand that.  And, I mean, this is coming from one of the more pessimistic posters around here (well, so I thought), and from someone who doesn't like a lot of the direction changes from Packet 2 to Packet 3.



They've repeatedly said that the core is done. Many people from all sides of the edition war have told them "no, no it isn't". They don't seem to get it...



I've heard similar things suggesting that the designers have more or less washed their hands with the "core" of the game, but what exactly IS core?  As it stands right now, I would most certainly not buy D&D Next as is, nor would I buy it if it continues the path it's currently going.  I've been playing since 3.0, and I've yet to buy a single piece of D&D material thus far.  I'm probably impossible to please, I imagine.
I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.



Can I pickled you fingers if you slice them off? 



Sure. Just don't feed them to your dog, they get sick.

I think you are exaggerating there...Maybe if they gave you the choice of watching a TV show you hate or playing this, you might choose the TV show...



Hrm, the tv shows that I do hate, I hate with a burning f****** passion. But there aren't many of those. So far the most attractive option is still slicing my fingers off.
I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.



Can I pickled you fingers if you slice them off? 



Sure. Just don't feed them to your dog, they get sick.

I think you are exaggerating there...Maybe if they gave you the choice of watching a TV show you hate or playing this, you might choose the TV show...



Hrm, hte tv shows that I do hate, I hate with a burning f****** passion. But there aren't many of those. So far the most attractive option is still slicing my fingers off.



I got two dogs to feed; one of them has a really tough stomach...
I've heard similar things suggesting that the designers have more or less washed their hands with the "core" of the game, but what exactly IS core?  As it stands right now, I would most certainly not buy D&D Next as is, nor would I buy it if it continues the path it's currently going.  I've been playing since 3.0, and I've yet to buy a single piece of D&D material thus far.  I'm probably impossible to please, I imagine.


You've been playing D&D for a decade or more, and you have never purchased any D&D material?  If I understand that correctly, my opinion should hold more weight.
I liked the first playtest packet. I didn't like the second one. I like this one slightly less than the second one. With each iteration, Next is moving further and further away from what I would have expected out of this game. If the current playtest is the model for how Next is meant to function, not only will I not buy it, but I'll write a letter to Wizards filled with vitriol of legendary proportions and a solemn oath to never buy a single one of their trashy products for as long as I live. 4e already felt like a giant middle finger to me. I don't have it in me to hold out for 6e if Next is a similarly scaled departure.

Would I play this for free? Hell no. I've more enjoyable things to do, like slice my own fingers off.


I agree with the bolded statements. I feel the same way about the progression of the playtest packets.

I wouldn't buy the game based on the latest packet, though. 
I've heard similar things suggesting that the designers have more or less washed their hands with the "core" of the game, but what exactly IS core?  As it stands right now, I would most certainly not buy D&D Next as is, nor would I buy it if it continues the path it's currently going.  I've been playing since 3.0, and I've yet to buy a single piece of D&D material thus far.  I'm probably impossible to please, I imagine.


You've been playing D&D for a decade or more, and you have never purchased any D&D material?  If I understand that correctly, my opinion should hold more weight.



Why?  Because you bought more books?  I'm not claiming I'm an expert on anything, here.  I'm simply saying that I've yet to buy a single D&D book and D&D Next is not looking favorable to me.  My opinion is just as valid as yours or anybody else's.

My point was that I was unsure of what "core" truly meant in this context.  If core is essentially completed, what does that actually mean?

Yes. If:

They cleaned it up.
Added new classes.
Added new maneuvers.
Added new spells.
Added multiclassing etc.

No I would not buy a game with just the Cleric, Fighter, Wizard and Rogue - but I do appreciate the core at the moment, and the style of play it encourages.
haha. boring...
Next thread should be "Hunger Strike Until Developers Stop Having NEW ideas"

I would buy it for sure.

I would buy it just for the fact that I've never seen a playtest as cooperative and as attentive as Next is being, they deserve it even if it is unfinished and with errors.

I woulld buy it because this system is already cleaner and simpler then any other D&D system I've ever played. AS a matter of fact it's already better than most of some 35+ other roleplaying games I've ever played.

I would buy it because I want something new, and not something old and tired. Which is how I have felt about all D&D editions since my last game of D&D which was 4ed, and players we're so bored that we quit mid-combat, cracked out Deathwatch and started making characters.

I would buy it because it's already so versatile and easy to adapt, that I could easily build from the vast resevoirs of past editions a better version of any class, that would be funner for our group then anything else I have seen before.


But most of all I would buy it because  that's not what you want to hear, and that my friend, is priceless.
 

My mind is a deal-breaker.