How awful is my casual black control?

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22 Swamp

4 Will-O'-the-Wisp
2 Nether Traitor
4 Gnat Misor
2 Nantuko Shade

4 Dash Hopes
4 Panoptic Mirror
4 Temporal Extortion
2 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Dark Ritual
2 Lashwrithe
2 Doom Blade
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Isochron Scepter


I will deal with sideboard cards later.. I know Dash Hopes should be replaced, but let's pretend I can't. I think the Isochron might be somewhat not worth it, but I sort of like the idea of threatening them with Doom Blades and Dash Hopes.. I guess I could technically toss a Dark Ritual on that, but that is pretty close to useless.


Soooo.. How horrible is it for casual? 
Pretty much any black control spell and scepter is trouble. It doesn't look all that aweful, but I can tell you Gnat Misor is pretty useless here. In the end, after they play out what they can, and between your discard spells, they'll never gain more than three cards anyways. It can be used with things like Wheel of Fate and Underworld Dreams // Megrim because it makes them discard down naturally without you having to pop off a discard spell. This application though is not utilizing its potential.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

i dont like the creatures/wincons, seems like youu'd be better off with more powerful spells
as you say dash hope isnt right here . although if you get it on isochron it'll be horrible for opponent^^

some sort of sweep would go well id say

panoptic and isochron are powerful enough that you might well do decently w this deck - unless opponent has artifact/permanent removal ofc 

How much of a budget do you have to work with? Because if you are wanting to keep this cheap, a legacy deck called The Gate can be easily made on a budget.

For the most part, you really need to add some hand disruption before even calling this a black control deck. So drop those Dash Hopes for a playset of Duress. At least then you will on the right track towards making a better deck.

I don't know if I'm just thinking of the same thing as Skywarp0083, but my first thought was gatekeeper of malakir. I'm not really familiar with deck names, so sorry in advance. ;)

You should find cards like that if possible. That is, creatures with a decent body that nets you some card advantage and/or ups or downs you or your opponent's tempo, respectfully. Hypnotic specter does this very well.

Your creature choices are kind of...I dunno. I would drop everything except nether traitor and work from that. Gatekeeper of malakir, hypnotic specter, vampire nighthawk: all are solid choices.

I would drop the stick for some more draw, like sign in blood or dark confidant (again, a body that nets CA). You also shouldn't worry about diabolic tutor, mainly because you don't really need anything in the deck more than anything else, so a simple increase in draw power would suffice. Curse of death's hold and panoptic mirror seem really slow, and only contribute a little bit of control. I like snuff out as spot removal, personally, and go for the throat is usually better than doom blade, but their both good. Black has problems with artifacts and enchantments, so the afore-mentioned duress, among other discard spells, are pretty much required.

If I were you, I would focus on discard, spot removal, and a steady stream of creatures to attack with. If you want, you could use less spot removal, and add more creatures with evasion and lifelink and simply win by outracing your opponent. Cards like Guul Draz Vampire and such are fast and evasive enough, IMO. This way is tricky when going against super fast decks like zoo (I know that deck type! ), goblins, elves, fish, etc. Decks like those are what sideboards are for, just sub out some creatures with infest type spells, and maybe more discard.

I hope this helped!
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
Thanks Raw Sugar for the post. This is going to sound extrememely amature, but how do you quickly link the card to the picture? I am not new to forums, but I am with this one.

So a couple things..

About the Gnat Misor, I think I agree there..Having four out sounds really nice, but getting one or two out isn't going to do a lot to stop the opponent anyway. Wheel of fate doesn't work because this is a mono. The megrim idea is always good, but I have done that before, too many times. Any other suggestions for replacement?

Duress seems like a decent exhange for Dash Hopes, but sort of the point of the deck's beginning was to make a decent deck with Dash Hopes in it. Not necesserily geared around it, but.. with it. So I TRULY understand that there are better fits but it needs to stay in this deck.. I appreciate the guidence you, you are correct.

I wanted this deck to feel a bit more blue then most mono black, which is why I grabbed Dash Hopes and Temportal Extortion. Duress is VERY black, but I guess that isn't really a big deal.

As far as buget goes.. I guess I don't precisely know, In the immediate future.. 50-100, but I have a few of these already. Long term maybe another hundred?  
To autocard, look at the bottom of my post.

Usually, when somebody plays mono-black control, they generally want what I posted above. But what you're asking for is something else entirely, and is very difficult.

Dash hopes and all of the other cards like it (blazing salvo, breaking point, etc.) are dependant on what your opponent wants to do. The choice they make will never really benefit them, but will always be the lesser of two evils. Dash hopes looks like a really good card, but it will be minor life-loss when you need a counterspell the most, and vise-versa.

So, I actually made a deck (for multiplayer) around it!



The point is to use the politics of multiplayer games to force people to make decisions that they later regret. Hissing Miasma and blood reckoning with grand melee makes for shorter games, especially if they play with lots of little tokens. Hopefully this deck can spark some ideas for you!
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
I've seen worse.
I'd hardy call 5 "minor" life loss though. It's better in an aggro deck, but a black control deck that is hunting for options, I think it deserves some consideration.
Keino, when you posted your post, it must have been right before mine, and I never got to see it. Both post would be useful though if I was either going for standard black control or red/black. I think the idea behind my deck, while it needs a lot of fine tuning(Which you guys have already given me some good ideas for) I want to lure them in with choices they have to make.. Over and over. I imagine eventually the choices becoming overwhelming. 5 life or a counter.. Not an amazing card, but on an iso that is either one less spell a turn or -5 life. Eventually that becomes sort of an over looming frustration. We know what the mirror is for obviously.

I truly want this deck to feel like a blue/black deck without actually having to have blue, but I guess I need to decide if that is actually worth it. Aside from that, I am having some trouble thinking of black cards that have a blue feel to it as it is. I am thinking about replacing the Gnat Misor's with 4 Hypnotic Spectors and maybe the Nantuko Shade with some Dark Confidents. Now.. I do like that card.. I think it's good, but maybe someone could explain to me WHY Dark Confident is good. 

Diabolic was in there basically to pull either a panoptic or isochron.. I think if I get either of those, my odds greatly improve(if unstopped) of winning..


I don't know why, I just really like decks that feel like another color. An example of that was my green deck that felt like spark elemental style deck. Super simple, but enjoyable.. I just like when decks feel a bit.. off. I know that isn't how it's intended though. My quark I guess..

Thanks for explaining the card linking.

 
The aim of this deck is to put cards in yards, no?

First off, you need a big-gun creature like Avatar of Woe or Mortivore

Then I'd throw in a few one-drops like Duress and its recently-released creature version, Despise

And if you're running mono-black, especially with Dark Ritual, you should look at "X" cost spells like Consume Spirit or Profane Command.  Nothing like directly hitting your opponent with a lotta life loss.  One gives you some life gain, and the other either takes out a creature, retrieves a creature, or gives your creatures fear.  
Fantastic suggestions, but if you look at what I started with, there is not a single card that's main purpose is to put cards in the graveyard or relies on cards in the graveyard. 

The aim of this deck is to be a casual/MAYBE legacy(albeit HORRIBLE) deck that has a control feel and also FEELS bluish.. but with no blue.

Duress and despise both seem looks good options.. I have been thinking about it. I am realizing based off of other people's comments that this deck will come to a halt if I don't find a way to draw extra cards now and then, which is why I think Dark Confident is a really good choice.. Because I am not losing a card to gain a card.
If you're rolling mono-black, there are a number of cards such as Sign in Blood that let you trade life for cards.  If you have a whole lotta mana with no place to go, there's Dregs of Sorrow, which has the added benefit of taking out some of your opponent's creatures.  The only problem is that Dregs works best when X is three or more, meaning you'd have to go through a lot of mana...
The dark rits help with that, but it's likely I would not want to use those specifically for that. Then again, I bed if I had three man, and two darks rituals in my hand, I wouldn't think twice to do so.. I will consider putting two in, maybe. Dregs is really expensive but for the most part everything in my deck is pretty cheap. I think Sign in Blood may be a second choice because I can trade life for cards as you said, or in the rare occasion it occurs, use it to finish someone off.

I am going to make another mock up of what I am thinking, soon. 
I could be going completely the wrong way with this, but I think this is getting better.. Maybe not perfect, but better. Obviously the Dash Hopes is Still in there and that is a small disadvantage. I only think it's a small one, but it is a small one. Dark Confidant and Sign in Blood for the Draw, and the Vampire Knighthawk to counter that(plus a decent hitter). Hypnotic Specter do do some damage and because it is a great discarder, and some very needed discard/destroy cards to get rid of pesky things. Something I was lacking. Still taking suggestions, but I do think this is better and it DOES feel somewhat blue. Somewhat..


22 Swamp 


2 Nether Traitor
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Dark Confidant
2 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Dash Hopes
4 Panoptic Mirror
4 Temporal Extortion
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
2 Lashwrithe
2 Go for the Throat
2 Sign in Blood
2 Isochron Scepter