What's with the class warfare in MTGO?

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I'm a new player, and it's happened a couple times within the past week that I'll end a game with someone and they send a messages like "How does it feel to have your expensive deck beaten by my cheap one?! You suuuuck!" Only somehow more obnoxious and rude. It's hard for me to replicate.

I'm not sure what I'm asking, I guess, since I know there are a$$holes in the world, and this is not news to me. But, playing Standard Just for Fun in MTGO, is there some unwritten rule I haven't heard about not playing decks that cost more than $10 to put together? I play against other people with Jaces and Thragtusks, so it can't be just me, although maybe those people get obnoxious messages, too. 

Is there a secret room for people who don't have a huge chip on their shoulder? For people who are not trolls?  

It is a huge bummer for me to receive these messages. Here I am thinking I'm just having fun with some anonymous guy (and I'm pretty sure 90% of the people on MTGO are guys; maybe that's the problem), and all of the sudden I get hit with all this vitriol.

What's up with that?
 
Someone makes a thread like this every couple of months.  People are not nice, especially when they get to remain anonymous.
Like any online game, there are lots of jerks and clueless people but also lots of good folks too.  I don't even play in the just for fun room anymore due to too many of the former.  Try the tournament practice room - tends to be far more 'professional' (on average).   And build your friends list with people you run into who are decent, maybe even look into joining a clan.  There are many, many great people playing, and with experience you'll find them.  

Alternatively, you could just close or ignore the chat when you start each game, and just play; never seeing what people are saying.  

   
A few responses for next time

"You had a good win.  It is a shame your manners are so poor."
"If only your attitude was as good as your deck"
"Money doesn't win games the shuffler does"
"LOL if you think this junk casual deck was expensive you should see my real one."

My personal favorite:
  
"It's easy to win($).  I just prefer to win in style($$$)."  


Don't let em spoil your game.

"They were civilized they even drank their blood from a cup"→James Silke/Frank Frazzeta

"When the Cryptkeeper sticks 'em they tend to stay stuck"→Cryptkeeper

"Do not blame the current developers if there is something you don't like about Magic Online. Chances are no one asked the developers for their opinion."→elf

"They just look at me like I'm stupid and then I just say something like well you know WOTC does some dumb things sometimes."→wilmheath

"Like just about everything I've experienced with MTGO and the Magic WotC website, I'm finding it difficult to..."→0rbit

"the more general question is: at what point does an easily fixable interface issue become a defect?"→silentbobus

"Imagine, only four years later and I almost have as much functionality as I used to."→Algona

"WotC, you make an awesome game, why do you have to suck so bad at letting people have a fun time?"→MTGKaioshin

"If you are all about playing as many games as possible as fast as possible and you KNOW you have me beat, then concede and move on"→Johnh2005

"Wow. You're a real pleasure to help. Good luck figuring it out by yourself."→tempesteye

"It's you against the shuffler."→jwark

"this look like freeware that some kid down the street crafted up"→ProtossX

"ask them if the world came to an economic end tomorrow, whether they think little printed pieces of paper could be traded for actual goods or services"→dangerlinto

"You still have time before the buggy, non user friendly beta is shoved down your throat"→theminer575

"I could go on and on, but looking at these boards and other web sites there doesn't seem to be much point."→Dras

Server status→ http://www.wizards.com/magic/magiconlineserverstatus.asp Love or hate me I was brought to you courtesy of V3!

The same applies to people who rage quit when I Force of Will their turn 1 play. cas/cas is no excuse, don't open a Classic match if you don't want to play a Classic-legal deck.
The best strategy, in the long run, is to just not reply at all and shrug it off. Any and all response will just show them that what they said affected you, which is exactly what they are hoping for. You can't let immature ppl drag you down to their level.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Most of these people are idiots anyway, so think of 'em as a box of puppies. As long as they're not actually peeing on your furniture and chewing up your shoes, let 'em yap. If you yap back, they'll think you're playing with them.

I do not wish to participate in this Community Site.

Another option is to move out of standard.
I get a lot less complaints when I play modern. Even though my decks there are a lot more expensive/annoying. Pauper also removes the complaints about money. I also hear that multiplayer is more tolerant of expensive decks as well, but I'm not so sure about that.

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

It's not limited to online play, it seems to be a thing for many magic players.

If you have good cards, the players without them tell you that you're terrible when you won't trade your Cavern of Souls to them for a handful of bulk rares because they "are actually going to use that card, but you're just holding it!".

Even if you offer to loan it to them for the tournament on the condition they return it afterwards, they still call you the scum of the earth for having something they want.

Then they whine that you beat them with "a more expensive netdeck that the rest of us can't afford!"  Meanwhile, it's not really that they can't afford the cards, they're happily paying $70 for dual lands for their EDH decks, but a $25 Snapcaster Mage, that's not fair!

EDIT:  I don't actually have a solution to the problem.  I suggested that my local shop start charging $25 entry fees for FNMs, as I thought it might help, but they were convinced nobody would show up anymore if they did that. 
DCI Certified Level 2 Judge
Is there a secret room for people who don't have a huge chip on their shoulder? For people who are not trolls?


Sort of. Tournaments with entry fees tend to attract nicer opponents. The Just For Fun room is, ironically, filled with very unpleasant people.
Is there a secret room for people who don't have a huge chip on their shoulder? For people who are not trolls?


Sort of. Tournaments with entry fees tend to attract nicer opponents. The Just For Fun room is, ironically, filled with very unpleasant people.



I think "just for fun" attracts people who weren't having fun somewhere else and are already in a bad mood.

When they see something they don't like, it compounds with their previous foul mood to make them more vile than normal.
DCI Certified Level 2 Judge
Is there a secret room for people who don't have a huge chip on their shoulder? For people who are not trolls?


Sort of. Tournaments with entry fees tend to attract nicer opponents. The Just For Fun room is, ironically, filled with very unpleasant people.



I think "just for fun" attracts people who weren't having fun somewhere else and are already in a bad mood.

When they see something they don't like, it compounds with their previous foul mood to make them more vile than normal.


I think that's half true. Half of us actually are nice but I think most of the Juffers are people who react badly to criticism voiced as dissent. (IE: LD? That's lame! Counterspells are noninteractive! I don't like playing people who make me discard my one good spell! EtC You are blocked! GG Jackhat!

Not to say all of us react that way but there are plenty of nonspikes or semi spikes who don't quite get the idea of win at all costs that others bring to the table. Particularly those whose idea of fun is brew an interesting deck and see how it flies rather than, put x spells of high quality in and hope to win.

That also doesn't really cover the spikes side of the table who may be taking a break from heavily competitive play but are never uncompetitive.

 I think for most players if you say "I think you play well but Id like to see us on a more even field can we play again with slightly less powerful decks?" the answer will be "sure" or at worst "yeah some other time perhaps." Few will be beligerant.

There are of course the social misfits whose idea of fun is to troll their opponents with nothing at stake and then to report them when they go off.

There are also those who either ignore chat because of bad experiences, bad UI or just plain not wanting to type. And as a few of my English speaking foreign friends have pointed out some are not comfortable enough with English based internet speak or chatting with people in a foreign language. So you may just get blanked but the key there is to just move on.

I think the take away from Juff is "play what you want, concede when you want, don't let the unkind remarks sink in too deep. They only are reacting to the surface. And find your playing level with others. Don't let the overpowered stuff ruin the fun."

Some of us like our $20 rares/mythics but if we are truly magic afficianados we also love our .2 uncommons and .04 commons.

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

While I don't rant at people playing serious decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.
While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.



No, no, NO. Do NOT do this.

The tournament practice room is for players who are practicing for a tournament. If you are not there for this purpose, you are wasting people's time.

Aren't you wasting peoples time also by playing a tournament deck in the just for fun room (if most of the poeple concede at the sight of a "netdeck")?

I would rather see tournament level decks played in the tournament practice room and I also assume that most players there would rather play someone with a good deck that plays for fun than againts a "serious" player playing a very bad homebrew.
This is all very subjective. For one thing many decks wax and wane in ability as cards are introduced/removed even with expert pilots. And then you factor in those who take a premise and twist into something decidedly not tourney worthy but still powerful if diluted or convoluted. In addition there are people like playing with powerful cards but not necessarily with the idea of playing full on matches.

I think the Juff motto just has to be as AJ_Impy and others have said many times: "Play what you want; Concede when you want." Blocking is rather antisocial and I usually reserve blocks for people who display an inability to socialize rather than those who are merely caught up in their ego gratification. So what? It IS just a game at this level. Nothing at stake except ego. And if you can't handle losing you are definitely never going to improve. Losing is certainly a part of the process of self-improvement in mtg even if it doesn't seem very intuitive.

The other thing to note is that TP is a mixed bag the same as Juff. The expectations may be higher there but the same exact antisocial poor sportsmanship behavior (blocking, rage quiting, cursing, stalling, etc) occur there. In addition people often fluxuation between the two rooms when unsure of the power level of a deck or when learning its intricacies. This is especially true of netdecks and most especially in Standard which is fairly easy to solve despite the information blackout on top event winners.

One final thing. It is better to lose a good game than to win a bad one (assuming nothing at stake) but it is far worse to be a poor sport either way. If you feel it is unsporting to bring your most powerful builds to a casual format in the for fun room, say so. But don't hold it against your opponent(s) if they don't agree. To do so is to be the poor sport you are reviling.

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

If this was directed at me I can say that I always write "no tournament level decks please" in the comments while playing in the just for fun room.

Still there are two problems I have seen with this.

One. Most people just do not read the comments anyway and just randomly join matches (usually the latest one).

Two. In some cases people do not understand what tournament level decks are. I played my janky Bolas deck and my opponent rage quit since I was playing "a very popular tournament deck with one of the best cards from M13". Go figure. Another person was outragged and called me a hypocrite because I played with rares.

 
I think the Juff motto just has to be as AJ_Impy and others have said many times: "Play what you want; Concede when you want."



'scuse me, but that one was actually coined by me. Credit where credit is due and all.

Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
I forgot to mention. The beta does make another room playable - getting serious. There I believe that people that have a better deck and want to play semi competitive matches while not practicing for a tournament have theri home.

As is this room is not funcional yet because the old client has no access to it. When it will become available to all it should make these issues less painfull. 
I think the Juff motto just has to be as AJ_Impy and others have said many times: "Play what you want; Concede when you want."



'scuse me, but that one was actually coined by me. Credit where credit is due and all.



As you've said before and why I said and others. :D It is I hear from different sources accredited to more than one person. :D

@Kristijan We can always hope anyway

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.

Fine by me. Your loss.

I'm poor, too, and work damn hard for what MTGO budget I do have. I love my nickel commons as much as the cards I sink a whole week's "earnings" into. It's fun for me to play them. I'm proud of them. Very few of my decks are tournament ready, so I'm not going to go to the Tournament Practice room with them. When I do go to the TP room, it's to "run the gauntlet", not "get away from choobs".

1) There are always gonna be people who are better off financially than you. (Worse off, too) But blocking me for playing the cards I've worked my tushie off to obtain? Your call.

2) There are always gonna be people who's idea of fun is taking Tier 1 decks and playing "bash the noob". Deal with it. These are the people you should be blocking.

Try talking to whoever's sitting across from you. You can usually tell from their response if they're an asshat or not. 

I do not wish to participate in this Community Site.

The other option is to also know the extent of the user agreement and when to report someone for bad conduct.  It will not do anything the first time you do it, but I would assume if enough people got into the habit of reporting it then you can start to crack down on it and get better quality players or at least better manners.  The community will not get better if you do not self regulate it.
On a side note, kinda funny that the "what's casual" discussion now basically is becoming the "what's fun" discussion...

And, well, there's different kinds of fun.

There's "my fun" - not always but often at the expense of other ppl's fun, eg. for a Spike fun = winning. For a griefer it goes even beyond that - their fun is defined by other ppl's lack of fun.

There's "our fun" - sometimes at the expense of your own grandeur, eg. Johnnies just don't care if they win, they're more interesting in the shape of the game as a whole. For a true socialite it goes beyond even that - they only have fun if fun is had by all (the game is a means to achieve a social experience).

It is natural for us to avoid playing with ppl who don's seek the same experience. This goes beyond the social aspect.

Who am I to say that a spike is wrong for wanting only to win? yet, since I am not a pure spike, I will prefer playing ppl who are, like me a mix of johnny and spike.

Yes, I'm both a johnny AND a spike. I'll play to win and optimize my deck, but a straighforward optimal deck choice (ie proven tourney deck) bores me - I ALSO challenge my creativity by impose rules on my decks to keep it interesting (eg "my deck may only win using PW ultimates" or "this deck must be RGU and do something typical for those colors").

Now if someone honestly thinks an affinity deck is the height of creativity who am I to judge them unimaginative? Yet that is what I will unconsciously do, for that is what I value most in a deck.

This lies at the heart of all fun/unfun discussions: I've learned to keep this to myself, and other ppl still feel the need to explicitly denounce deviating views.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.

Fine by me. Your loss.

I'm poor, too, and work damn hard for what MTGO budget I do have. I love my nickel commons as much as the cards I sink a whole week's "earnings" into. It's fun for me to play them. I'm proud of them. Very few of my decks are tournament ready, so I'm not going to go to the Tournament Practice room with them. When I do go to the TP room, it's to "run the gauntlet", not "get away from choobs".

1) There are always gonna be people who are better off financially than you. (Worse off, too) But blocking me for playing the cards I've worked my tushie off to obtain? Your call.

2) There are always gonna be people who's idea of fun is taking Tier 1 decks and playing "bash the noob". Deal with it. These are the people you should be blocking.

Try talking to whoever's sitting across from you. You can usually tell from their response if they're an asshat or not. 



My loss?  Okay.. lol.  BTW, I play modern with you all the time and your decks aren't even close to be blockable in my eyes.  Clealy I'm talking about the turn 1 urza land into map players.

While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.


This makes me sad on so many levels.

"Cost" does not define deck strength. I have a lot of decks which use "expensive" cards and yet are easily beaten by any number of decks.

You have no idea what I paid for my cards. That playset of FoW in my deck? I paid 16 each for them. That's much less then some people who spend 100 on a single JtMS pre-restriction.

If you think you're losing simply because your opponent has more expensive cards, you are mistaken. You will never get better unless you play against everything. And everyone. You can learn something from every game/match. A good player seeks to discover how to play against every archetype.

The TP room is generally used for players with established archetypes, since most tournament decks are highly metagamed (or for people playing a rogue build designed to attack the meta) and players will get upset if you bring a random pile.

Blocking someone for simply playing a deck which costs more then yours is, while your right, very poor judgement. The player on the other end could be an amazing person but you'd never know that.

So sad.  

Guess what? Chicken butt.

Hah, tempest, I feel your pain. I get the $$$ comments now and then and when I tell them how cheaply I got stuff they just get madder... After all, what is easier to believe/handle, that I happened to be in the right spot at the right time a lot of times or that I am a spoiled rich kid... (Yeah I don't get it either, but there you go).
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Best one I have for you is, " its only a game"  and at this time of the year I always throw in.  "Merry Christmas to you too"

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I just got on MTGO last week and I can't "have fun" anywhere except the "just starting out" room. After spending a few hundred bucks on standard cards and winning 9/10 games there, I really wanted to up the competition, so I go to "Just for fun" and I lose 50/50 games consecutively.

When I ask myself "Why did I lose?", this is what I think:
A) He isn't better than me. I can take his first four cards, do a tournament seach online, and already know the rest of his deck. He is a mindless drone that did nothing more than copy someone else's idea.
B) I don't want to be a mindless drone that copy/pastes decks from the internet. The whole fun of MTG is in finding things that work together. IMHO.
C) WTF?! He has 3 planeswalkers out already. I've only got one in my deck!

All that may be right or wrong, but that's my impression.

What I really wish they would do is implement a ladder or a behind the scenes mathing system. I hear there used to be ranking that you could view, but they took it out, since it didn't allow someone to play a tier 1 deck and then experiement with a new crappy idea afterward and be appropriately matched. I see no reason the system couldn't track per deck. They have a huge DB afterall. they could also do it behind the scenes, and leave it optional. That way noone is a stat ****. Just an optional "Play now" button with some format and choose a deck options.

As it is, I am stuck in limbo, not having fun because I either totally own the guys who just joined or get totally owned by the guys playing top level decks.

I'd just stick to playing limited tournaments, but that gets expensive quick!



I'd just stick to playing limited tournaments, but that gets expensive quick!

I haven't done the math, but 4-pack swiss sealed seems pretty inexpensive. If all you ever do is win 2 rounds, the effective cost is a single pack in and 60 cards added to your collection. And, if you're lucky, you can sell some of those cards for more than a pack. In terms of cost per hour, its not that much.
There has ALWAYS been a huge disparity in deck power when playing casually online.

Here's the actual problem: IRL you usually know what your friends are playing before you sit down. You have a good idea of how powerful their deck is. Even if they have several decks, or even if they just built a completely new one, you know how they play. You know their style. And you and your group have adjusted to each other.

Online, every player is a random. Power levels can vary widely. And many players, tired of losing with thier fun decks, will start to build uber-powerful net decks because they want to win.

The issue is NOT about stats, the issue is about minimal social connection.

Guess what? Chicken butt.

While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.


This makes me sad on so many levels.

"Cost" does not define deck strength. I have a lot of decks which use "expensive" cards and yet are easily beaten by any number of decks.

You have no idea what I paid for my cards. That playset of FoW in my deck? I paid 16 each for them. That's much less then some people who spend 100 on a single JtMS pre-restriction.

If you think you're losing simply because your opponent has more expensive cards, you are mistaken. You will never get better unless you play against everything. And everyone. You can learn something from every game/match. A good player seeks to discover how to play against every archetype.

The TP room is generally used for players with established archetypes, since most tournament decks are highly metagamed (or for people playing a rogue build designed to attack the meta) and players will get upset if you bring a random pile.

Blocking someone for simply playing a deck which costs more then yours is, while your right, very poor judgement. The player on the other end could be an amazing person but you'd never know that.

So sad.  



Perhaps I used the wrong term.  Not talking about money, talking about people that play serious decks in the just for fun room looking for easy wins.  I did say "money" didn't I... seems money and winning go hand in hand.

I'm done with this thread btw.  Seems wanting an even match up is asking too much in the eyes of some.

While I don't rant at people playnig money decks I do block them, for 2 reasons.  One, I'm poor and I'd prefer to play a game I have a chance of winning.  2, there's a tourney practice room.  Use it.  Even if you don't play tourneys.  There you will find similar decks to yours.


This makes me sad on so many levels.

"Cost" does not define deck strength. I have a lot of decks which use "expensive" cards and yet are easily beaten by any number of decks.

You have no idea what I paid for my cards. That playset of FoW in my deck? I paid 16 each for them. That's much less then some people who spend 100 on a single JtMS pre-restriction.

If you think you're losing simply because your opponent has more expensive cards, you are mistaken. You will never get better unless you play against everything. And everyone. You can learn something from every game/match. A good player seeks to discover how to play against every archetype.

The TP room is generally used for players with established archetypes, since most tournament decks are highly metagamed (or for people playing a rogue build designed to attack the meta) and players will get upset if you bring a random pile.

Blocking someone for simply playing a deck which costs more then yours is, while your right, very poor judgement. The player on the other end could be an amazing person but you'd never know that.

So sad.  



Perhaps I used the wrong term.  Not talking about money, talking about people that play serious decks in the just for fun room looking for easy wins.  I did say "money" didn't I... seems money and winning go hand in hand.

I'm done with this thread btw.  Seems wanting an even match up is asking too much in the eyes of some.




Im a little surprised you posted anything after the first rant (short as it was.) I totally sympathize with wanting something near even matches (even in the same ballpark is nice) but I think that is something YOU have to work towards cultivating. Firstly with your attitude. If you think everyone else owes you a good time you are starting off on the wrong foot. Instead be outgoing with your requests for "fair" games and see what happens. Some people will respond positively.

Which leads to the second point. You need to find people of like mind. Actively seeking out those who are willing to play on your level will lead to better experiences. Modern is especially harsh as formats go (I've seen far friendlier games of classic on average in Juff.) There is no real casual Modern player base. The players exist but no one likes to lose all the time and the standard of that format is to bring the harshest decks you can build (while maybe trying a few new things.)

Turn 3 Tron is usually enough for me in my worst moments to concede because I (usually) know my deck won't beat such an early Karn. But sometimes my opponents have surprised me with innovations and rarely with something completely out of the blue. Or even not worthy of the tier system at all. So I try to avoid jumping to conclusions or at least making the decision to concede until I know better. But that isn't the typical game. I play Modern when Im in the mood for blood and I think that is true of many players.

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

...He is a mindless drone that did nothing more than copy someone else's idea...



While the rest of your post does not really deserve any criticism, this does. You leap from "This deck is a known archetype" to "whoever plays it is a mindless drone". That's prejudice right there. Plus, the underlying assumption ("such decks could be played by mindless drones") is just plain wrong.

It does explain *some* of the hate though. Ppl thinking "there's no talent involved, I could do that if I only had the cards".

The funny thing is that it honestly isn't true. I've seen ppl play such netdecks, completely underestimate what it takes to play them, and completely mess it up. This is especially true for the decks with many options, but even simpler decks are not 'autoplay'. I've seen ppl 'try to go off' way too soon and peter out, make the wrong mana tap choices and get stuck, counter the wrong 'threat' and run out of ammo, and so on and so on.

It doesn't stop at finding the list, you need to learn what the tough choices and weak spots are. Especially against opponents who know what they're doing and what they're playing.
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The funny thing is that it honestly isn't true. I've seen ppl play such netdecks, completely underestimate what it takes to play them, and completely mess it up...

I'm one of these players. Every once in a while I'll see a "successful" netdeck that seems like something that I would enjoy playing. I'll build it and play a few games. Just long enough to realize I have no idea how it works. Then I put it away and go back to just playing limited for a few months. If the deck came with play instructions (i.e. someone wrote an article), I might stick it out a bit longer.

I wouldn't think of bringing that deck to the tournament practice room. I'm not practicing for a tournament. And, I wouldn't want to waste the time of anyone who was.

It's also funny (ie wrong) that people confuse expensive cards with net decks. Yeah, I got Jace, Thragtusk, and Snapcaster. Because, simply, for me it's not all that much money and those cards are cool. Cool

But I don't "netdeck" because, for me, half of the fun is coming up with my own ideas for decks and trying them out. I guess that's why I don't win as often as I should given the caliber of cards I play with, but I don't care. I just like coming up with weird deck ideas and trying them out. And constantly tweaking them to optimize. For me, half the fun in MTG is before playing the game. 

It's nice to win, but really, who cares? How much more meaningless can you get than prevailing over someone you've never met and never will at a game of Magic? 
"Cost" does not define deck strength. I have a lot of decks which use "expensive" cards and yet are easily beaten by any number of decks.

Blocking someone for simply playing a deck which costs more then yours is, while your right, very poor judgement. The player on the other end could be an amazing person but you'd never know that.




I actually empathize with what the poster was getting at.  This is a similar issue to why the New York Yankees are a polarizing issue in American Major League Baseball.

Although the expensive cards do not mean that you have a powerful deck, they do provide an advantage over those players that do not own cards of similar costs.

The poster's choice to block those users is very understandable...if he/she does not have access to expensive cards, and a player has demonstrated that they have/will use expensive cards in their decks...why would they want to join a match against that player in the future?  Yes, every once in a while the Kansas City Royals will beat the New York Yankees, but it takes a special personality type to enjoy going into a match where you are likely at a disadvantage before you press "join game".

I am personally one of those personality types, so I whole-heartedly agree that playing at a disadvantage can make you a much better Magic player and deck designer.  But for some, that is not their idea of "fun", so I empathize why they can experience frustration in the "Just for Fun" room and to block/immediately concede to players that play expensive cards or decks that are powerful/tournament worthy.
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"Cost" does not define deck strength. I have a lot of decks which use "expensive" cards and yet are easily beaten by any number of decks.

Blocking someone for simply playing a deck which costs more then yours is, while your right, very poor judgement. The player on the other end could be an amazing person but you'd never know that.




I actually empathize with what the poster was getting at.  This is a similar issue to why the New York Yankees are a polarizing issue in American Major League Baseball.

Although the expensive cards do not mean that you have a powerful deck, they do provide an advantage over those players that do not own cards of similar costs.

The poster's choice to block those users is very understandable...if he/she does not have access to expensive cards, and a player has demonstrated that they have/will use expensive cards in their decks...why would they want to join a match against that player in the future?  Yes, every once in a while the Kansas City Royals will beat the New York Yankees, but it takes a special personality type to enjoy going into a match where you are likely at a disadvantage before you press "join game".

I am personally one of those personality types, so I whole-heartedly agree that playing at a disadvantage can make you a much better Magic player and deck designer.  But for some, that is not their idea of "fun", so I empathize why they can experience frustration in the "Just for Fun" room and to block/immediately concede to players that play expensive cards or decks that are powerful/tournament worthy.



I've actually witnessed such a travesty in Yankee Stadium. Half the seats were empty that day, it was drizzly and the hot dogs were terrible. 1983 fall if I remember right.

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

The poster's choice to block those users is very understandable...if he/she does not have access to expensive cards, and a player has demonstrated that they have/will use expensive cards in their decks...why would they want to join a match against that player in the future?

  I think the OP was about playing with expensive cradz and getting hazed for it even if they didn't win.  What it boils down to is many people are sore losers and when they win against something they normaly lost to then they feel the need to trash talk about how superior they are as a human being for winning against the odds.  Which well good for them. 

I hope they win on turn 1 someday and have an epiphany.  Myself been there done that now I like to try and win in style!  Which for awhile now means a 4 color White Jund deck.  To the OP just buy every expensive card you can put it in a deck and laugh when the hater's hate because it's all they know how to do.  If I can aquire a complete collection of dual lands on my meager earnings they can skip a few cups of starbucks and get that Force-O-Goyf action going on eventually.

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I actually empathize with what the poster was getting at.  This is a similar issue to why the New York Yankees are a polarizing issue in American Major League Baseball.

Although the expensive cards do not mean that you have a powerful deck, they do provide an advantage over those players that do not own cards of similar costs.



Cards are expensive because everybody wants them. Everybody wants them because they are 'best in slot'. Any card that isn't expensive and helps you beat the existing expensive cards will become expensive itself while lowering the price of the cards it beats.

You have to be EXTREMELY lucky to discover a new gem before it gets discovered by others and the price starts rising.

There is nothing morally wrong with paying $$$ for the good cards. You're not 'buying an easy win' or 'cheating your way into wins' as many seem to think; you simply are one of those who recognise quality and also have the means to get it.

I always think it is strange how no-one begrudges other ppl their fancy yachts and ferraris, but THIS is somehow wrong.

Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
There is nothing morally wrong with paying $$$ for the good cards. You're not 'buying an easy win' or 'cheating your way into wins' as many seem to think; you simply are one of those who recognise quality and also have the means to get it.




I completely agree.  However, I understand the viewpoint that those that have the means to purchase these cards will likely have an inherent advantage over those that do not. 

It is the prerogative of those that do not to decide whether they want to play against others that start with that advantage.  I don't believe they have the right, however, to complain or belittle those that do have the means...that's simply juvenile.
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I always used to block people who played competitive decks in the "Just for Fun" room as I usually wanted to try out my Samurai or Kitsune or what have you. I didn't care whether I won or lost, but neither did I want to be made to feel as though I don't have a chance unless I buy a ton of chase rares to compete with the rare-of-the-year deck that everyone usually plays.

Nor do I think it's a good usage of one's time to play a competitive deck against a completely rogue/budget build. This does not give you a good sense of how your deck will do in a tournament. Both online and in paper, only playing in a tournament tells you how your deck fares in that environment. Stomping on people with their Reassembling Skeleton decks doesn't make you a good player, nor does it prove you have a good deck. It just means you're acting like a bully, whether you realize it or not.
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