Red Multiplayer

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So the other day, MaRo said on tumblr that it is difficult to make red goo.d in multiplayer and even asked how to fix it. Here's a place to put your ideas and opinions.
I feel like one of Red's problems lack of card advantage. In longer multiplayer games, its paticularly taxing to be top decking and hoping for something swingy enough to matter.

I wonder that hellbent style mechanics on higher CMC cards could help. Once you've dumped your hand, Red should reward you for following its impulsive philosophy.
I was interested in taking suggestions for how to make red better in EDH.

More recursive effects. Red is allowed to get things out of the yard if they're artifacts (usually in weird ways), instants or sorceries, or at random. Push that.
Mana dumps. More things to do late game when you have a stable board position, but maybe not a lot in the hand.
Things that can be used in the graveyard.
More aggresively costed board wipes.  
There's a number of creatures with 1R: do 1 damage, I'd like an enchantment that does the same. Effects that increase the damage of all of your sources.
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57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
On the tumblr, someone mentioned the idea of a Volcano. Running with that: You pump in mana to charge up an artifact/enchantment/land with a "when this dies, deal damage equal to the number of counters on it split between any number of target creatures, players, or planeswalkers".

It's long term in one way (you're pumping it up) but very short term in another (when you actually do something, you have to do it all at once) 
I feel like one of Red's problems lack of card advantage. In longer multiplayer games, its paticularly taxing to be top decking and hoping for something swingy enough to matter. I wonder that hellbent style mechanics on higher CMC cards could help. Once you've dumped your hand, Red should reward you for following its impulsive philosophy.



Technically, red gets card advantage by destroying two things with one card (and of course, flashback). But red doesn't get card draw in a way which grants card advantage. We could play up the fact that cantrips go across colors.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I feel that on a fundamental level that because drawing cards is such a ubiquitous part of the game, that every color should be allowed access to it in some manner.
Not looting, actual card draw.
Actually implementing on on the other hand is another trick.

No one complained about Knollspine Dragon, but that's a splashy rare that's too expensive for competitive play.
Desperate Ravings grants you +1 upon flashback, but that requires blue to implement.   

A Goblin Lore that does more than just replace itself might work, but players have historically not reacted fondly to random looting.

I think we should take a note from how green and white have made strides in card draw recently.
Green's is always attached to its creatures in someway.
White plays into its uniques strengths, with Puresteel Paladin and mentor of the Meek granting you cards in exchange for going all in on white strategies.

Might there be a red way to do this?
Drawing cards whenever you successfully blow up an artifact or land, or whenever you successfully deal non-combat damage to a player?      
With the looting that Red's been getting, it would be nice if it could get some of that recursion from Black.  Ideally, single turn recursion that causes exiling afterwards.  Goryo's Vengeance, for example, would be a great Red mechanic.

Even if you didn't want recursion, you could have things like "exile a sorcery card from your graveyard.  Deal damage equal to its CMC to blah."

If Red's going to be filling up its graveyard, let it do some Reddish things with it.

As for not quickly burning out in long multiplayer games -- I don't know, that's kind of Red's point: you gotta kill everyone else quick.  But there are a couple things I could see Red doing to get better while still feeling Red.  1) More mana sinks; enchantments with (Cost) : (Action) would be great for Red -- Moonveil Dragon is a great EDH card, keep spreading the love.  2) Things that Red does to reduce its own battlefield presence should also cantrip or give extra draws.  I could see a Sorcery-speed Fling at that did exactly the same thing but also had "Draw two cards" attached to it.  Red voluntarily self-destructs.  For games where Red is facing lots of opponents, it simply won't win if it can't recover from its own immolation.  It needs to have spells that are big that do normal Red things, but also allow for that kind of recovery.

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I think I agree with most of this. Red is not good at maintaining board presence in the long term. It's like red needs to drop its whole
"I'm faster than you" schtick in favor of something else. I'm not sure exactly what that should be, though.
I very much support this thread. I think this kind of idea:

As for not quickly burning out in long multiplayer games -- I don't know, that's kind of Red's point: you gotta kill everyone else quick.

is poison to be able to dismiss one of the five colours of Magic. 

On card drawing:
I think I do support the idea that red ought to be able to at least cantrip when it blows its own stuff up. A version of Arms Dealer / Airdrop Condor saying something like "2R, Sacrifice a Goblin creature: ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to that Goblin's power. Draw a card." Or a version of Batterhorn saying "When ~ enters the battlefield, you may destroy target artifact. If you controlled that artifact, draw a card."

Widening the conversation from card drawing to card advantage:
There are a handful of good red cockroach cards. We've already had Kumano, Master Yamabushi and Flowstone Overseer alluded to. The enchantment version is sortof Task Mage Assembly or Pyrohemia, but neither is quite ideal. Someone mentioned returning instants/sorceries, as on Surreal Memoir; particularly notable here is Charmbreaker Devils, an amazing source of card advantage.

Red also gets plenty of card advantage from repeatable/multiple burn like Siege-Gang Commander or Hatchet Bully

Red also gets plenty of card advantage from Kiki-Jiki / Splinter Twin. It makes us shudder because of the ETB-untap infinite combos, but a more restricted Kiki-Jiki ought to be doable: something like a legend with "R, T: Put a 3/1 red Elemental creature token with haste onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step." Or a vertical cycle of creatures that do that, perhaps the common one as a oneoff ETB trigger but the uncommon and rare doing it repeatedly.

There are a handful of red card-advantage instants. Things like Grab the Reins, Blood Feud, or the way that you need red mana to make Orim's Thunder card advantage. (Also I suppose Into the Core.) More of those would be good, though.



Just out of interest, I went through the past few expert-level sets looking for (mono)red card advantage cards. (Using a fairly inflexible definition of card advantage, for sanity. I didn't include virtual card advantage, even Shattered Perception, and I didn't include symmetrical burn like Blasphemous Act. I did count any creature as a card, even just a 1/1.) Here's what I found:

Return to Ravnica: Batterhorn (common), Electrickery (common), Survey the Wreckage (common), Goblin Rally (uncommon), Pyroconvergence (uncommon), Street Spasm (uncommon), Vandalblast (uncommon), Mizzium Mortars (rare), Guild Feud (rare), Utvara Hellkite (mythic)

Avacyn Restored: Aggravate (uncommon), Falkenrath Exterminator (uncommon), Gang of Devils (uncommon), Vigilante Justice (uncommon), Dual Casting (rare), Hound of Griselbrand (rare), Tyrant of Discord (rare), Bonfire of the Damned (mythic)

Dark Ascension:  Forge Devil (common), Nearheath Stalker (common), Blood Feud (uncommon), Pyreheart Wolf (uncommon), Werewolf Ransacker (uncommon), Alpha Brawl (rare), Flayer of the Hatebound (rare), Increasing Vengeance (rare)

Innistrad:  Geistflame (common), Pitchburn Devils (common), Burning Vengeance (uncommon), Into the Maw of Hell (uncommon), Charmbreaker Devils (rare), Devil's Play (rare), Heretic's Punishment (rare), Past in Flames (mythic), Balefire Dragon (mythic)

New Phyrexia: Fallen Ferromancer (uncommon), Rage Extractor (uncommon), Tormentor Exarch (uncommon), Chancellor of the Forge (rare)

Mirrodin Besieged: Blisterstick Shaman (common), Kuldotha Flamefiend (uncommon), Galvanoth (rare)

Scars of Mirrodin: Kuldotha Rebirth (common), Oxidda Scrapmelter (uncommon), Arc Trail (uncommon), Bloodshot Trainee (uncommon), Embersmith (uncommon), Furnace Celebration (uncommon), Turn to Slag (uncommon), Hoard-Smelter Dragon (rare), Spikeshot Elder (rare)

Interesting that flashback, undying, and overload are all block mechanics that manage to provide red with a bit of card advantage. It's also worth noting (though not particularly surprising) that about half of the cards above derive their card advantage from the ability to burn more than one opposing creature. (The rest are mainly from "creature + burn something", "creature + Shatter" or "multiple creatures" (including undying)).


Red also gets plenty of card advantage from Kiki-Jiki / Splinter Twin. It makes us shudder because of the ETB-untap infinite combos, but a more restricted Kiki-Jiki ought to be doable: something like a legend with "R, T: Put a 3/1 red Elemental creature token with haste onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step." Or a vertical cycle of creatures that do that, perhaps the common one as a oneoff ETB trigger but the uncommon and rare doing it repeatedly.


Red got that in Alara, but it was terrible enough that you forgot it. I think a Kiki-jiki with mana to activite would be great. It makes people jump through another hoop to get infinite.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
In the spirit of trying to figure out the best RED way to do this, here is a list of cards from RED's history that provide card advantage. If you're interested at all, could you list how RED the mechanic/card/concept feels on a scale from 1 to 5, 1 being "completely out of color" and 5 being "perfectly in color".



Also as a useful exercise, we could post RED cards we actually like in multiplayer. As someone that played RED EDH for the challenge and relative cheapness of it, Aggravated Assault was always a favorite of mine (especially since my commander was Stonebrow, Krosan Hero).
damn it Rush, making me post in DDT... you're the worst. I'm not using your number system.

Card List
Hammer of Bogardan: this doesn't feel red but if it was reflavored a bit I could see it working as a "BUT I WANNA DO THAT THING AGAIN!" type deal. it's a stretch, but for some reason red gets phoenixes so whatever.
Earthquake: obvred
Anarchy: obliterate is a better example. obliterate is obvred.
Demigod of Revenge: eh, it fits with red's phoenix thing, but red gets phoenixes because fire is red, so that's a pretty weak justification.
Warp World: this can get you card advantage, if your deck is a higher percent permanents than your opponents, but it doesn't really feel like a card advantage tool, since the quality levels shift so drastically too.
Bloodbraid Elf: this isn't even just red.
Reiterate: buyback works in red because it's one of the spell colors. it's not great but it works.
Chandra's Phoenix: as I said above phoenixes aren't really red. this particular one is okay, though. red getting non-red things through the power of faceburn is aight.
Brand: nah bro.
Capricious Efreet: lol random so red no but seriously red has a decent history of getting non-red effects tied to coinflips and downsides, which is aight.


120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I very much support this thread. I think this kind of idea:

As for not quickly burning out in long multiplayer games -- I don't know, that's kind of Red's point: you gotta kill everyone else quick.

is poison to be able to dismiss one of the five colours of Magic.


Hold the phone, I did *not* dismiss Red.  I'm saying its strategy is not the same as a Stasis game.  Red's point *is* to burn; I think that feeling is very Red, and I can't say that I'd like for Red to suddenly have the cards that it would be a competitively viable mono-Red strategy to delay the game.

Red *does* need some recovery for large multiplayer games that wind up lasting many turns in formats where you could see multiple board wipes before it's even your turn again.  Even then, it needs to be done in a "Red-flavored" way, which means uninhibited.

Slagstorm is a good try, but I honestly think the "3 damage to each player" part is overcosted.  Red should be able to deal 3 damage to each opponent for 2 or 3 CMC.  Slagstorm should be able to deal 5 damage to each player, imo, for Red to really start having its kind of strategy be viable in a format like EDH or Archmage.

Red's strategy needs to improve in those bigger formats.  It shouldn't be given a new strategy, or have to borrow from the other colors.  If Red burns out, it needs a way to reignite, sure.  But then it should still feel like you're playing a more or less reignited Red deck, and you should be working impatiently to win before you burn out again.

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In the spirit of trying to figure out the best RED way to do this, here is a list of cards from RED's history that provide card advantage. If you're interested at all, could you list how RED the mechanic/card/concept feels on a scale from 1 to 5, 1 being "completely out of color" and 5 being "perfectly in color".

Nice idea!

Card List
Hammer of Bogardan: 4
Earthquake: 5
Anarchy: 1
Demigod of Revenge: 3
Warp World: 5
Bloodbraid Elf: 5 (I'd be happy with monored cascade)
Reiterate: 5
Chandra's Phoenix: 5
Brand: 5 (though I don't see how it's card advantage)
Capricious Efreet: 4 (5 if it said "nonenchantment")


Also as a useful exercise, we could post RED cards we actually like in multiplayer. As someone that played RED EDH for the challenge and relative cheapness of it, Aggravated Assault was always a favorite of mine (especially since my commander was Stonebrow, Krosan Hero).

Also a good plan. I mentioned several of my favourites last time: Kumano, Master YamabushiCharmbreaker Devils, Grab the Reins, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Dual Casting.
Moving beyond those providing strict card advantage, I like Stingscourger, Incandescent Soulstoke, Glacial Ray, Starstorm, and Bloodshot Colossus.
I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned discard and redraw effects like Wheel of Fate or Dangerous Wager.  These are card advantage spells that always felt very red to me as they reward you for burning or hand and fell like a card advantage version of looting. It seems to me like these could be a good fix for the problem of red burning out in multiplayer, although I don't have much play experience of red multiplayer.
In the Core Set, we have, at rare, Krenko. Tokens that grow at an exponential rate is good slow play.

Of course, you can also find other ways. We could do something with Squandered Resources or Cadaverous Bloom, since both effects would be red today. Sadly, both are on the Resereved List, but you could make them cost more (which I would do anyway so they don't compete) or something.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
In the spirit of trying to figure out the best RED way to do this, here is a list of cards from RED's history that provide card advantage. If you're interested at all, could you list how RED the mechanic/card/concept feels on a scale from 1 to 5, 1 being "completely out of color" and 5 being "perfectly in color".
Also as a useful exercise, we could post RED cards we actually like in multiplayer. As someone that played RED EDH for the challenge and relative cheapness of it, Aggravated Assault was always a favorite of mine (especially since my commander was Stonebrow, Krosan Hero).


Card List
Hammer of Bogardan 4, Just like burn with buyback, red can do anything with burn. Also, this was in the first pack I opened, so it's a huge personal favorite.
Earthquake5, Plays well with a Red Dragons plan
Anarchy2, Shouldn't hit enchantments, should hit lands. Perhaps "Destory all plains and white artifacts. Anarchy does 7 damage to each white creature and Planeswalker."
Demigod of Revenge2, it's Black. (Also, why aren't Demigods legendary?)
Warp World 4,
Bloodbraid Elf, N/A, the body is all red, but Cascade isn't assigned.
Reiterate 5
Chandra's Phoenix 5, I like this idea of making each shock better by having triggers from it.
Brand 3, This effect always seemed Green to me. Red doesn't care who owns what, it'll threaten anything. Green hates mind control.
Capricious Efreet4, needs nonenchantment
I only ever use aggravated Assault with sword of feast and famine or similar effects. Godo, banit warlord is a somewhat popular commander, mostly for tutoring swords.

Others I like
Magma Giant
Rimescale Dragon This guy gets crazy fast, especially in commander
Bloodfire Colossus
Sparkcaster part of infinite combo decks. I really wanted to kill people with rooftop storm. There's not much green here.
Scourge of Kher Ridges Kills everything without tapping.
Magmatic Force
Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Furnace Dragon hard to use properly
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Hearthcage Giant Budget!
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs you should attack someone else.
Bogardan Hellkite
Kaervek the Merciless
Crimson Hellkite
Ryusei, the Falling Star
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
We could do something with Squandered Resources or Cadaverous Bloom, since both effects would be red today. Sadly, both are on the Resereved List, but you could make them cost more (which I would do anyway so they don't compete) or something.

The reserve list doesn't apply if you're changing the color.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

The reserved list applys as much as Wizards wants it to. Seeing as it changes, and appears to be getting more strict, The consideration is worthwhile. Wotc could get anway with a creature, however (see Magus cycles) and goblins seem perfect for both effects.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
For as long as they keep printing Reverberate, I'll continue to have the impression that the reserved list is a bunch of garbage that they can (and should) get rid of at any time.  The existence of Reverberate goes to show that they are fine with reprinting cards with effectively meaningless changes.  In the grand scheme of things, the difference between it and its predecessor is about as functionally relevant in as many cases as changing the expansion symbol (which, is *also* a functional change, for many early sets).

Sorry, I didn't mean to continue this derail.

What would folks think about Red getting self-balancing upward-only effects such as Timely Reinforcements (obviously, not the lifegain part) to recover after a burnout?

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

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Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Seems potentially plausible. Reminds me of Pulse of the Forge.
I think R&D could play up red's love of explosions in the storm sense. That is, more designs with incentive for playing multiple things at once. Suppose you had something like:

Shayla the Twisting
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Flash
While Shayla the Twisting is on the stack, creature cards you own that aren't on the battlefield have flash and each other creature you control enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on it.
2/2

That's just an example of "play as much as possible in one turn" syndrome. This particular card might not be the savior of red multiplayer, but the idea of mass casting could allow red to get some bigger and splashier effects. Multiplayer favors control, so giving red a way to hold back and still feel red is a must, and the "explosion" technique looks saucy to me.
I also like the feel of Red fighting harder when its back is against the wall. Draws more cards when its hand size is low, does more damage when its life is low, etc. It's part of why I feel like hellbent and fateful hour should be primarily Red.
I could see fateful hour working in red. I feel it could even help introduce with actual cards the parts of red we know but don't see, like its passion in general rather than its bloodlust. I feel that red equates to stupid goblins too often. That flavor might be holding it back more than anything.
I also like the feel of Red fighting harder when its back is against the wall. Draws more cards when its hand size is low, does more damage when its life is low, etc. It's part of why I feel like hellbent and fateful hour should be primarily Red.



That could be, but "fight harder when losing" is more a white thing. But I could see a value for it in red, much like a cornered animal. (Plus, you may have noticed online that someone's rage is inversely proportional to how much they're winning the debate.) So we could make it primary in white, secondary in red/green. (Black, by contrast, gets more "win more" cards in this scheme.)
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Poor red. Multiplayer just diminishes the effectiveness of focusing on the shortterm so much. The stats that go on grade A red creatures and spells just don't cut it in multiplayer. Lightning Bolt is often called the best burn spell of all time but nobody plays it in edh. The X burn spells? Realistically it's pretty hard to deal 40 damage with those. At best it would probably take 3 or 4 turns of putting all your resources into burn and then you've only taken out one opponent and done nothing to improve your board position.Frown

Some X burn effects that scale up more effectively would help. Something like deal X2 damage to target creature/player.
Some clever recusion effects would be nice too. Obviously lots of recursion doens't really fit into red but whenever it can be justified it should be done. Random recursion, dmage based recursion, phoneixes? Go for it!
And oh god yes please give red some more effects that gain power as you do worse. Hellbent and Fateful Hour are so very, very red.
I think there is a unique multiplayer strategy that red is the best at, which is the Wildfire stragey. Red has many instances of the strategy, such as Tectonic Break, Keldon Firebombers and Destructive Force. With a bit of land ramp, this can be a very effective strategy. It effectively resets the game, returning to the early game, which red is good at. Also, I'd like to see some Insurrection variants.
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Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

The problem with Wildfire is that people despise playing against it.

This. Except that Wildfire isn't that offensive. Sure, it's debilitating, but it doesn't garner concessions like Armageddon does.

I would be in favor of red getting more big board wipes. Maybe:

Calamity
Sorcery
Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and planeswalkers. Calamity deals 1 damage to each opponent for each permanent destroyed this way. 
I don't know about you, but I hate playing against a deck with nothing but counters and card draw and a slow win con, and I doubt they'll ever stop printing card draw, counters or slow but effective win cons. I'd rather see more armaeggedons, honestly. I've never played with or against one, but it doesn't seem as bad as never resolving another spell, for instance.
Won a TPmanW contest with Demonic Arbitrator. (see below) My username is a simple continued fraction. Look it up. My favorite cards I've made:
Show
Æther Rider Creatuere - Spirit (U) Vanishing 0 (This permanent enters the battlefield with zero time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from it. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.) Flying : Put a time counter on ~. Any player may activate this ability. It comes on the wind, from realms unknown. 2/2 Kaldurian Behemoth Creature - Beast (R) Mana produced by lands may not be used to pay ~'s mana cost. Trample On Kalduria, the beasts are too good to eat common grass. 10/10 Demonic Arbitrator Sorcery Starting with you, each player may pay any amount of life. If any player paid life, repeat this process. If a player paid more life in total than any other, that player searches his or her library for a card and puts that card into his or her hand. Then that player shuffles his or her library. "Your sacrifice has been judged worthy. What power do you require?"
Red should get more stuff like Sizzle and Kaboom!. Really Hydra Omnivore should (Or could at least) have been red. Of course then "That guy" is all like "Cards work differently in different formats? OMG 2HG IS BROKEN!" 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I don't know about you, but I hate playing against a deck with nothing but counters and card draw and a slow win con, and I doubt they'll ever stop printing card draw, counters or slow but effective win cons. I'd rather see more armaeggedons, honestly. I've never played with or against one, but it doesn't seem as bad as never resolving another spell, for instance.

Armageddon concession is usually because you'll never resolve another spell again.
Red should get more stuff like Sizzle and Kaboom!. Really Hydra Omnivore should (Or could at least) have been red. Of course then "That guy" is all like "Cards work differently in different formats? OMG 2HG IS BROKEN!" 



I think the idea was that Hydra Omnivore could be Gruul. But...

Dragon Omnivore

Flying

: ~ gets +1/+0 until EOT.

When ~ deals combat damage to a player, it deals that much damage to each other opponent. 5/5
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
That gives me the following idea:

Emberwhirl
Creature - Elemental
Trample
Whenever Emberwhirl deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker, untap it. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
Emberwhirl can't attack a player or planeswalker it already attacked this turn.
6/6 
Rush, that card makes me happy in ways I should probably describe to a therapist.
That's what I was going for. Also, reposted from YMTC (with justification):

Fevered Conceptions
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, exile the top seven cards of your library, then draw a card.
The mind can only burn so bright.



I've long liked the idea of red getting more Arc-Slogger type cards. Granted, that used the library as a resource for something red already does. But this sort of fits in that Final Fortune area of design, where red does something to great excess in an attempt to win quickly or die trying. The neat thing is that it'll play oddly in 60 card Magic but do much better in 100 card Magic (theoretically).
Powerful, but it would probably run into a lot of the same problems Slogger did, in that it will be loathed by a large subsection of people who don't play competitively.
Those who won't be able to see how you would want to use such a resources to close the game out in a hurry. 
I think that thing is killing you too fast. With Arc-Slogger, it's fine, since you're using it to deal the finishing blow. However, Card Advantage is more for attrition.
I suppose it takes 5 turns, and that's a decent amount of time, but I can't help but feel the abilities work really poorly together. Spending three mana on doing nothing isn't the best when you want to close out the game, especially not when you're telling your opponent he doesn't need to spend any effot into killing you anymore.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I do like the idea of a red phrexian arena
Urabask's arena
Enchantment
At the begining of your upkeep, discard a card, then draw a card.
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
I do like the idea of a red phrexian arena
Urabask's arena
Enchantment
At the begining of your upkeep, discard a card, then draw a card.



Compares to Recycle, I guess (albeit weaker but cheaper). Could be used in multicolor too as a reanimator or Tarmy enabler.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
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