Charging? Anyone got anything on it yet?

So after looking around through the how to play and all that. I've found nothing on charging, has anyone come up with anything for it or am i just missing it in the books.
Has not been added yet. I expect it will be added with tactical combat rules.

Or they just won't add it.
 
I've been using the 4E rules for charging in my game. Obviously its abit broken though since being forced into a melee basic attack isn't much punishment.
I've been using the 4E rules for charging in my game. Obviously its abit broken though since being forced into a melee basic attack isn't much punishment.



Ya...thats basically what I've been doing, guess ill just remove it for now...

When does the tactical combat rules come out?
The tactical combat rules are just a hunch. No one has ever said they will come out. Now in all probability flanking and charging will probably find their way into the game, but full on tactical rules have never really been confirmed by WotC.
The tactical combat rules are just a hunch. No one has ever said they will come out. Now in all probability flanking and charging will probably find their way into the game, but full on tactical rules have never really been confirmed by WotC.



Would be nice to get some official conformation from wizards about it all...i just say it doesnt provoke atm...but +1 doesn't seem like a big deal when it comes down to it
The tactical combat rules are just a hunch. No one has ever said they will come out. Now in all probability flanking and charging will probably find their way into the game, but full on tactical rules have never really been confirmed by WotC.

In fact tactical rules module was mentioned a few times by Mearls already. Heres a few exemple:


Mike Mearls: The next phase will depend on what the feedback looks like. I'd like to start pushing out some more fighter options and perhaps show off the tactical rules module.

Mike MearlsFirst, I think that 4e fans will see more stuff they like - the tactical rules module, maneuvers for fighters, other magic systems - as we move along. So, that's one I think we can fix. What I hope for people who liked 4e is that they get the balance they want and the options to have cool, complex tactical battles that move much faster.

Mike Mearls:This is an easy one - we have a maneuver system in process. Also, the tactical rules module I'm writing as a lot more detail and removes DM adjudication to some parts of the rules (cover) for groups that want that.

 
Mike MearlsFor combat as sport, that is 100% where the full blown tactical rules module is aiming. This is one of those areas where groups have very different tastes, and modularity should help us bridge that gap if we do it right.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Where did he mention that at?
Interviews, Chats ... (click his name it will bring you to the source)

I am sure Legends & Lore and D&D Next Q&As columns have mentions too i just didn't look there.

IIRC a L&L has him discussing possible maneuvers available to everyone in such module too.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Interviews, Chats ... (click his name it will bring you to the source)

I am sure Legends & Lore and D&D Next Q&As columns have mentions too i just didn't look there.

IIRC a L&L has him discussing possible maneuvers available to everyone in such module too.

Also if someone has the time id would very much appreciate some basic guide lines for building custom encounters...i threw my party about 8 human warriors with 2 warlords(they were 8 level 1s) and while 2 went down that was only due to very very lucky crits by me...i critted initiative and on 3 attacks...
Interviews, Chats ... (click his name it will bring you to the source)

I am sure Legends & Lore and D&D Next Q&As columns have mentions too i just didn't look there.

IIRC a L&L has him discussing possible maneuvers available to everyone in such module too.



He haven't mentioned those in a long time...i fear is no longer on the R&D list to do...
My players have wanted to charge as well, it's a funny line behind do you say "you cannot yet there are no rules" or just make some up?

I opted to allow distance+half and a +1 attack, in turn for advantage to anyone that opted to AoO the charger as they ran past.

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Action, must move at least 10 feet up to your full movement speed. A single melee basic attack. I don't think it needs extra bonuses or anything. You are basically combining hustle and attack.
That explains how I missed it. I haven't read/listened to every q&a and so forth. (Since I've been on my phone I had no idea the name was links)

Anyway thanks for clearing me up.
TheGreatStreetguru how many players do you have?
Charge will be overpowered in 5 since basic attacks are full power.  Not that it needs to cost alot, but you still should pay for mobility.

Thus, it should be a manuver.

Charge: When you take a hustle (horrible name  ) action, you can spend an expertise dice to make a melee attack.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

One of the major problems with encounter building right now is that monsters aren't all that great and have problems. A lot of people have been adding +2 to monsters to hit.

My suggestion is that your average 1st level monster should have +2 or +3 to hit. This gives them a good chance to hit anyone who is not a heavily armored fighter. The damage they do should stay in the d4 or d6 range. A d8 on a first level monster is deadly for PCs at first level since most PCs are going to have a d6/d8 for hit dice.

The elite guys can have a +4. Anything higher and you are heading to auto-hit anyone who isn't a fighter.

Aattention to how many fighters you have in your party should be taken into account. The more fighters the more you can throw at the party. Know what spells the wizard can cast. This can influence the tide of battle.

Now you need to think about how many encounters you want in a given day. The more encounters the weaker each individual one needs to be.

As a general rule you can typically have Number of PCs X 2 monsters if the spell casters don't have any area spells. Once you go over double opponents you run the risk of killing the party due to too many attacks even if they are weaker monsters.

One of the problems with encounters right now is that monsters miss a lot but if they do hit they will bring a party down. This of course is made worse when the monsters win initiative they have more chances to hit.

If the monsters are doing low to hit and a d4 you can have more of them. Higher to hit and a d6 you can have less. The trick is finding the balance with your party. One thing you can do is take the average damage of a monster and round up. This can give you an indication of how many rounds your party is expected to survive. Also pay attention to what if you do max damage. Now anticipate how long it will take the party to kill the monster. The longer it takes the less max. damage you want the monster to be able to do.

So how do you go from all of my theoretical advice to actual encounters. Unfortunately the xp values are off right now.

What I recommend is to have an encounter. If it is too easy then you know you can go harder. If it is too hard then you need to cut back. You can continue to eye ball it from there.
Charge can't be a maneuver because that means only the fighter and monk will be able to do it.
Charge can't be a maneuver because that means only the fighter and monk will be able to do it.

What's wrong with that?

Most people shouldn't run with knives. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Charge can't be a maneuver because that means only the fighter and monk will be able to do it.



I'd agree it should be a standard action, much like disengage.  Anyone can use it if they want.  Furious charge across the battle field with less regard to personal safety.

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Most people shouldn't run with scissors

Fixed... ;)

Seriously though, I'd be OK if it were a standard combat action, much like disengage.

The problem with it as a maneuver, is the infrequency with which it might see the table at all. Even for a fighter. There are so many other, more "important" maneuvers that will catch most players' eye. Maneuvers are such a limited commodity on the character sheet. What do you give up to be able to charge?

Plus, as a basic combat option, now my monsters can do it too... :D


Plus, as a basic combat option, now my monsters can do it too... :D



To me, as a DM, this is very important.  For me, stated or otherwise, I always assume all "intelligent" monsters can do what players can, including disengage, charge, sneak, etc.

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Charge is already in the game, at least as a monster's action.  See Minotaur.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Yeah. I don't count the minautar because it has an unusable version of charge.
Isn't this what the surprise attack maneuver is for?

Big Model: Creative Agenda
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th Edition
Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of random stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke
At least in the last packet there isn't a surprise attack maneuver that I could find. If you are talking about the surprise action/round in combat i don't see how that replaces charge.

Unfortunately I don't have previous packets on ky phone to double check them for the maneuver
At least in the last packet there isn't a surprise attack maneuver that I could find. If you are talking about the surprise action/round in combat i don't see how that replaces charge. Unfortunately I don't have previous packets on ky phone to double check them for the maneuver


Opps sorry Spring Attack

Big Model: Creative Agenda
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th Edition
Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of random stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke
TheGreatStreetguru how many players do you have?



I Got 8 and im basically a first time DM lol
Talk about going big or going home. I would start using max hit points for the monsters. Try monsters above their level. Give monsters an extra hit dice. The key is damage. At level one you really dont want to go above a d6 still except against fighters. If you have a lot of fighters send someone with a d8 or d10 after them.
Yeah I can see spring attack as a replacement for charge. I think the problem is that it is a fighter only thing and everyone (except the wizard) should be able to charge.