Spider Legend for Commander

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The wife only plays EDH, and wants to play a spider tribal deck. Unfortunately, there are no legendary spiders. Not one! Criminal, in my opinion.

Anyway, we really only enjoy casual play, so I have a feeling if I make a good, balanced card other players might let it pass because, let's be serious, no one has tribal spiders. Here's what I got first go around:

Obligatory Collossal Spider Name: 1RGGWW

Creatures without flying cannot attack you.
Landfall--whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put two 1/2 green Spider creature tokens onto the battlefield.
Other Spider creatures you control get +1/+1 and have Provoke.

0/12


I want this huge, tall-as-mountains image to come to mind with this one. His first ability makes reach relevant (and white color), landfall is a nod to green and gives the image of chunks of rock falling off his back covered in spiders, and finally provoke is a static ability shared between red, white, and green equally. Using red, green, and white as the color scheme is due to spiders being only those colors besides Spider Spawning (which is still green, but has a black flashback).

I have a feeling it has a little too much in the way of abilities, but I also don't want to make the guy uncastable. Any advice or insight?
Wait, spiders are defenders with reach (your spiders are missing that ability for some reason!) and since they're much stronger at defending (especially with their low power and high toughness!) granting them offensive abilities like provoke doesn't really make sense..
Spiders love trees. Also, why exclude House Dimir's colors?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
lol
Big Mamma Spider


Creatures with flying cannot attack you. ?
~"moving through the open space, they could not see the web."

spiders wait and rarely provoke
+1/+1 is vanilla but efficient

all spiders untap at the beganning of each upkeep?
~"that will make 'em squirm"

Landfall--whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put two 1/2 green Spider creature tokens onto the battlefield.


em.. search your deck for a 4 or less converted mana cost spider , reveal it it and put it into your hand
3/8


is 5 power the current standard of big beefy ?
 

applied fore a job at wizards 7-14-2014

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Lestat the Musical: I want more
How about a twist, straight from the praetors?

All Spider creatures have vigilance and "When this creature blocks a creature with flying, tap that creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step."
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
How about a twist, straight from the praetors?

All Spider creatures have vigilance and "When this creature blocks a creature with flying, tap that creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step."



+
 

applied fore a job at wizards 7-14-2014

hasbro didn't respond

 

Lestat the Musical: I want more
According to gatherer, there are NO white spiders........so, what is your basis for including white in a spider legend? Especially one designed to helm a spider tribal deck.

Edit: I looked again. There are 2 MULTICOLOR spiders and zero mono-white spiders. I retract my previous statement.
According to gatherer, there are NO white spiders........so, what is your basis for including white in a spider legend? Especially one designed to helm a spider tribal deck.


Ancient Spider and Pale Recluse.  There are only three spiders with red in their cost and a few spider-like spells that use black mana.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Wait, spiders are defenders with reach (your spiders are missing that ability for some reason!) and since they're much stronger at defending (especially with their low power and high toughness!) granting them offensive abilities like provoke doesn't really make sense..



Not a single Spider card or Spider token in MTG has defender, and many have power equal to or greater than their toughness (and most have just one point of toughness more than their power).  Also, just because most Spiders have reach doesn't mean all do.  I felt giving these reach would be too much in addition to the Moat ability.

About provoke:  I settled on that ability because in an EDH deck full of "defenders" in red, white, and green, no aggressive plays seemed to spell utter disaster.  I mean, think about it--all ramp, no finishers except hoping you can make enough tokens in ten turns to finally become relevant?  No one would play that.  Provoke is only partially aggressive, unlike trample and haste.  Seeing as there are only ten cards with provoke and five of them don't have the ability to deal lots of damage, I would think the flavor aspect of each spider being able to trap specific creatures to be better.

I apologize for my own aggressiveness, but your comment reads more like "you're dumb and know nothing about spiders" rather than constructive criticism.
I'm just sad that, due to the commander's colors, the deck can't use Spider Spawning.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

To be fair, D34th, reach feels like defender, like, a lot, if the creature doesn't have vigilance.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
They're defending creatures because that combine reach with a high toughness, but they don't have the defender keyword! If they would have provoke in addition to reach, one of the abilities would always be totally useless, but spiders don't really provoke anyway..
They're defending creatures because that combine reach with a high toughness, but they don't have the defender keyword! If they would have provoke in addition to reach, one of the abilities would always be totally useless, but spiders don't really provoke anyway..



Archweaver and Blightwidow do fit into that same problem. (The latter's particularly glaring because I can get only slightly less utility out of Cystbearer or Rot Wolf for one mana less.)

But yeah, spiders don't provoke. They wait in darkness for foolish insects to touch their web.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I'm pretty sure Ancient Spider could be printed at common now.

And technically, many spiders are hunters and not just web sitters.  Wolf Spiders for instance, very common around these parts.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
These cards are Ball Tightening.
I_forget_who_dammit wrote:
Perfect originality is overrated and often ugly. The best and most beautiful cards I've ever seen were clearly inspired by something else. Cards are not entirely unlike living organisms in this regard. All the good ones are a result of long evolution; the 'original' ones are either monocellular or mutant aberrations.
ColonialDragons wrote:
The weird part is reaching over the table, grabbing a card from their hand, and just staring slowly back at them, awkwardly, as you slide their voice of resurgence slowly into your pants.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Graveborn are strictly better than Zombies. I mean, look at that wicked beard. You try growing that when your dead. And I know aging fellows who are suffering from Male Pattern Baldness, who would kill for a Mop like Ribsy's over there.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Hey Dudibus, I can't take you seriously until you take your shirt off!
cats_and_me wrote:
I'm just stating what I think is their opinion! :/
This is supposed to be a LEGENDARY spider, guys!  Not a run-of-the-mill spider!  Remember Ungoliant from Tolkien legends (The Silmarillion)?  Large, aggressive, and dangerous.
That's because tolkien legends don't respect Wizards' color pie!
That's because tolkien legends don't respect Wizards' color pie!



I am glad you take analogies literally.
Yeah, and the smiley means that I'm totally serious about that!
Szhazath, Centre of the Web --
Legendary Creature - Spider
Hexproof, deathtouch, reach
Whenever a Spider enter the battlefield under your control, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
 4/8

ceci n'est pas une signature.

Okay, I like spiders; but I really don't like the OPs spider.

Here's my first attempt, a LotR reference

Shelob, Spawn of Ungoliant 
Legendary CreatureDemon Spider
Reach, Deathtouch, First Strike
Other Spiders you control have Deathtouch. 
:B:: Exile up to X creature cards from target opponents graveyard, then put a 1/2 green Spider creature token with reach onto the battlefield for each card exiled this way.
4/6

Deathtouch and first strike is a nasty combo, but spiders aren't massively powerful, so I think it'll be okay. The little tokens with deathtouch will be nasty if you've drawn your black mana.
As far as an offensive ability is concerned, I'd think giving all spiders intimidate would be more flavorful than provoke.

Other than that, I would probably make it wedge like Doran...WBG, rather than BRG.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
As far as an offensive ability is concerned, I'd think giving all spiders intimidate would be more flavorful than provoke.

Other than that, I would probably make it wedge like Doran...WBG, rather than BRG.



Intimidate might be better, you're correct.  However, I would like the ability to play any spider card if I want to, and there are absolutely no spiders in black or blue.
Szhazath, Centre of the Web --
Legendary Creature - Spider
Hexproof, deathtouch, reach
Whenever a Spider enter the battlefield under your control, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
 4/8




Last ability has no flavor for spiders; it is much more a goblin ability.  Also, the only spider token generator requires black, so I would be forced to rely on casting tons of spider cards, which is highly inefficient.
Okay, I like spiders; but I really don't like the OPs spider.

Here's my first attempt, a LotR reference

Shelob, Spawn of Ungoliant 
Legendary CreatureDemon Spider
Reach, Deathtouch, First Strike
Other Spiders you control have Deathtouch. 
:B:: Exile up to X creature cards from target opponents graveyard, then put a 1/2 green Spider creature token with reach onto the battlefield for each card exiled this way.
4/6

Deathtouch and first strike is a nasty combo, but spiders aren't massively powerful, so I think it'll be okay. The little tokens with deathtouch will be nasty if you've drawn your black mana.

This spider won't work for the OP under Commander rules.  Since it doesn't have in its casting cost, they won't be able to use cards that produce in the deck, and as such, won't ever be able to use its ability.

Honestly, there's enough spiders that I'd rather see this thing as a creature.  That way you get all but two of the spiders and have access to cards like Spider Spawning.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Okay, I like spiders; but I really don't like the OPs spider.

Here's my first attempt, a LotR reference

Shelob, Spawn of Ungoliant 
Legendary CreatureDemon Spider
Reach, Deathtouch, First Strike
Other Spiders you control have Deathtouch. 
:B:: Exile up to X creature cards from target opponents graveyard, then put a 1/2 green Spider creature token with reach onto the battlefield for each card exiled this way.
4/6

Deathtouch and first strike is a nasty combo, but spiders aren't massively powerful, so I think it'll be okay. The little tokens with deathtouch will be nasty if you've drawn your black mana.

This spider won't work for the OP under Commander rules.  Since it doesn't have in its casting cost, they won't be able to use cards that produce in the deck, and as such, won't ever be able to use its ability.

Honestly, there's enough spiders that I'd rather see this thing as a creature.  That way you get all but two of the spiders and have access to cards like Spider Spawning.



You don't keep track of color-identity rules do you? A Memnarch EDH deck is considered a blue deck. A Rhys the Exiled one is considered a black/green deck. Et cetera.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
 This spider won't work for the OP under Commander rules.  Since it doesn't have in its casting cost, they won't be able to use cards that produce in the deck, and as such, won't ever be able to use its ability.


Commander uses a thing called "color identity" rather than "color". It includes all mana symbols on the card: Including those in its activated abilities.

This is a non-black spider, colorwise, but it's black, red, green, white in color identity.

I actually put the ability on there to make it black, so that the deck could use Spider Spawning.
You could add "You may pay an additional to cast ~ as though it had flash." for great symmetry.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
As far as an offensive ability is concerned, I'd think giving all spiders intimidate would be more flavorful than provoke.

Other than that, I would probably make it wedge like Doran...WBG, rather than BRG.



Intimidate might be better, you're correct.  However, I would like the ability to play any spider card if I want to, and there are absolutely no spiders in black or blue.


Sure, your spider commander can be whatever colors you want.  Apologies, I can see how my post was easily misunderstood since I didn't actually design a full card.  My second statement was really just a personal preference for what I would design.  My first was actual feedback for your design.

Intimidate is fine as an ability provided by red, so colors would still match.

In the last standard environment, I actually did have a casual spider tribal deck.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Morbidia, Lair Queen
Legendary Creature - Spider
Deathtouch, reach
When Morbidia, Lair Queen enters the battlefield, put an incubation counter on each other creature.
At the start of your turn, for each creature with an incubation counter, choose one - put an incubation on it or it's owner sacrifices it.  If a creature with an incubation counter is sacrficed in this way, put X 1/1 black spider tokens onto the battlefield where X is equal to the number of incubation counters on it.
"Guys...I think somethings...moving..." - horrified victim.
4/7

EDIT: Boo its has to be ?  bah...something later if I think of it. 

Quotes: 

Show
magicpablo666 wrote:
These cards are Ball Tightening.
I_forget_who_dammit wrote:
Perfect originality is overrated and often ugly. The best and most beautiful cards I've ever seen were clearly inspired by something else. Cards are not entirely unlike living organisms in this regard. All the good ones are a result of long evolution; the 'original' ones are either monocellular or mutant aberrations.
ColonialDragons wrote:
The weird part is reaching over the table, grabbing a card from their hand, and just staring slowly back at them, awkwardly, as you slide their voice of resurgence slowly into your pants.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Graveborn are strictly better than Zombies. I mean, look at that wicked beard. You try growing that when your dead. And I know aging fellows who are suffering from Male Pattern Baldness, who would kill for a Mop like Ribsy's over there.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Hey Dudibus, I can't take you seriously until you take your shirt off!
cats_and_me wrote:
I'm just stating what I think is their opinion! :/
(1) i love spiders

(2) a legendary spider without reach just looks goofy -- especially if you're saying it's the size of a mountain.. its physical body stretches up into the sky but it can't block flyers?

(3) i, too, would like to see black on this guy -- (a) because in general i love black (b) because black and green together always rock (c) Spider Spawning really needs to go with a spider commander in an EDH deck; just too good together not to be playable

(4) the name "Center of the Web" was awesome and big kudos to whomever that was

(5) i had gone with a spider tribal design once that was just massive air destruction; something along lines of "whenever a spider enters the battlefield under your control, destroy target creature with flying" -- limited to flying creatures, but still a really powerful ability (ongoing Stingerfling Spider)
(1) i love spiders

(2) a legendary spider without reach just looks goofy -- especially if you're saying it's the size of a mountain.. its physical body stretches up into the sky but it can't block flyers?

(3) i, too, would like to see black on this guy -- (a) because in general i love black (b) because black and green together always rock (c) Spider Spawning really needs to go with a spider commander in an EDH deck; just too good together not to be playable

(4) the name "Center of the Web" was awesome and big kudos to whomever that was

(5) i had gone with a spider tribal design once that was just massive air destruction; something along lines of "whenever a spider enters the battlefield under your control, destroy target creature with flying" -- limited to flying creatures, but still a really powerful ability (ongoing Stingerfling Spider)




Just giving it reach seemed like a cop-out.  Also, the original idea already has too many abilities.  I didn't want to do "other spiders have reach" because that would be wasted.  That's why the Moat ability.

I half agree about Spider Spawning, but only in the necessity of having token spiders.   However, red, white, and green is the wife's requirement, and adding black to that is really janky for a single cards sake.  Is the deck really only going to be viable because of spider spawning?  A 100 card deck? 

 
Morbidia, Lair Queen
Legendary Creature - Spider
Deathtouch, reach
When Morbidia, Lair Queen enters the battlefield, put an incubation counter on each other creature.
At the start of your turn, for each creature with an incubation counter, choose one - put an incubation on it or it's owner sacrifices it.  If a creature with an incubation counter is sacrficed in this way, put X 1/1 black spider tokens onto the battlefield where X is equal to the number of incubation counters on it.
"Guys...I think somethings...moving..." - horrified victim.
4/7

EDIT: Boo its has to be ?  bah...something later if I think of it. 




Yah, sorry. Liked the idea, besides it being ridiculously overpowered.  Bypass hexproof, shroud, indestructible and regenerate?  And get creatures from doing nothing?


Just giving it reach seemed like a cop-out.  Also, the original idea already has too many abilities.  I didn't want to do "other spiders have reach" because that would be wasted.  That's why the Moat ability. 

It doesn't need reach if it is an antimoat (stops creatures with flying) stopping creatures without flying is weird for spider tribal

I half agree about Spider Spawning, but only in the necessity of having token spiders.   However, red, white, and green is the wife's requirement, and adding black to that is really janky for a single cards sake.  Is the deck really only going to be viable because of spider spawning?  A 100 card deck?


It's a pretty good card, but you could do without it. I think you'd be better off including a bit of black, but it's not necessary. It'd mean you could include every spider card ever.


Just giving it reach seemed like a cop-out.  Also, the original idea already has too many abilities.  I didn't want to do "other spiders have reach" because that would be wasted.  That's why the Moat ability. 

It doesn't need reach if it is an antimoat (stops creatures with flying) stopping creatures without flying is weird for spider tribal

I half agree about Spider Spawning, but only in the necessity of having token spiders.   However, red, white, and green is the wife's requirement, and adding black to that is really janky for a single cards sake.  Is the deck really only going to be viable because of spider spawning?  A 100 card deck?


It's a pretty good card, but you could do without it. I think you'd be better off including a bit of black, but it's not necessary. It'd mean you could include every spider card ever.




Hmm...maybe instead of Moat, do this:

All creatures lose flying.
Spider creatures you control with Reach gain Intimidate.

Retain other abilities, drop Provoke. 
It's a strong card but I don't know if its overpowered, especially for Commander.  If bypassing those abilities is an issue then it can just be changed to "put an incubation counter on any number of target creatures."  Although I do like the idea of getting around those abilities.  And getting creatures from doing nothing other than spending 7 mana and having to keep her alive a turn, which for a board wipe is kind of hurting, assuming they have many creatures out, plus all creatures played afterwards won't have incubation counters. Yadda yadda yadda, yadda yadda.

Horrific Crawling Monstrosity
Legendary Creature - Spider
Reach, trample, vigilance
When ~ enters the battlefield, tap all other creatures.
Creatures with less power than ~ do not untap during their controllers untap step.
3/10

Quotes: 

Show
magicpablo666 wrote:
These cards are Ball Tightening.
I_forget_who_dammit wrote:
Perfect originality is overrated and often ugly. The best and most beautiful cards I've ever seen were clearly inspired by something else. Cards are not entirely unlike living organisms in this regard. All the good ones are a result of long evolution; the 'original' ones are either monocellular or mutant aberrations.
ColonialDragons wrote:
The weird part is reaching over the table, grabbing a card from their hand, and just staring slowly back at them, awkwardly, as you slide their voice of resurgence slowly into your pants.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Graveborn are strictly better than Zombies. I mean, look at that wicked beard. You try growing that when your dead. And I know aging fellows who are suffering from Male Pattern Baldness, who would kill for a Mop like Ribsy's over there.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Hey Dudibus, I can't take you seriously until you take your shirt off!
cats_and_me wrote:
I'm just stating what I think is their opinion! :/
That's because tolkien legends don't respect Wizards' color pie!

Gorbag says: " .... I say something has slipped. And we've got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. ....."


 

applied fore a job at wizards 7-14-2014

hasbro didn't respond

 

Lestat the Musical: I want more
It's a strong card but I don't know if its overpowered, especially for Commander.  If bypassing those abilities is an issue then it can just be changed to "put an incubation counter on any number of target creatures."  Although I do like the idea of getting around those abilities.  And getting creatures from doing nothing other than spending 7 mana and having to keep her alive a turn, which for a board wipe is kind of hurting, assuming they have many creatures out, plus all creatures played afterwards won't have incubation counters. Yadda yadda yadda, yadda yadda.

Horrific Crawling Monstrosity
Legendary Creature - Spider
Reach, trample, vigilance
When ~ enters the battlefield, tap all other creatures.
Creatures with less power than ~ do not untap during their controllers untap step.
3/10



I don't want to sound rude, because you're trying to help.  So please take any of my words as an attempt to find the best fit.

There are no one-sided wrath effects among current generals, with or without draw backs.  It makes me very weary of having one do that.

This new build is...not very good.  It has no flavor with spiders (doesn't feel like a spider lord), and also effectively kills the idea of playing other spider cards.  This would be a good fattie at non-legendary, but wouldn't invite me to play tribal spiders.   
There are 3 red spiders; dragonlair is fine and the other two suck.

Just use Doran 
There are 3 red spiders; dragonlair is fine and the other two suck.

Just use Doran 




Because the white spiders are any better?

Im here to design a card, not choose a general from prexisting ones.  If that's what you want to do, there's a whole other subforum for that.
 

applied fore a job at wizards 7-14-2014

hasbro didn't respond

 

Lestat the Musical: I want more
There's been a lot of ideas out there, and I know Spiders are a tribe which many people would like to see (even though I have a feeling it will never happen; Arachnus Spider is their only attempt to date).  Like I said, criminal that we haven't even seen one spider legend!

Anyway...

It seems like Spider Spawning is just about people's favorite card in terms of spiders (although honestly, Dragonlair Spider is the only spider I've had really rock EDH).

I think although I like my original build with the changes to the Moat ability and Provoke, I'm wondering if it might be better to straight hinge off of a token-creating ability, with a small lord pump.  Similar to...whatever that spider in Harry Potter is called.  A mother spider with tons of tokens.

The incubation counter idea definitely seemed interesting, and there might be other ways to do it to make it work.  I'm just not certain at this point.