Magic Item Creation Rules Questions

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It's interesting because I suggested a workable build that had no cross class, had Cure light to Cure Serious, as well as other healing abilities, such as restoration, cure disease etc, and could cast both Divine and Arcane spells without UMD, was heavily armored and had comparible AC and melee damage. And could cast spells as swift actions to avoid loss of melee output. 


Sorry the skill overcome the standards rules ¬¬ for it a rouge without Spell list can use it.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.



The healer learn some spells more faster and can cure more as example he can use cure minor wounds to cure more than 1 hit point.

and look a healer like a draft of magic the gathering where the most important is your ability and not the cards in this case your ability not the class
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
No actually it doesn't Oma, again the rules are consistant, UMD doesn't allow the Rogue to do anything that a Wizard using the same scroll couldn't do. UMD is just using poor language, The rules for Scrolls and Spell Completion trump the UMD rules.

It should be further noted that the Scroll and Spell Completion rules are in the DMG, and the DMG always trumps the PHB because DM rules always overwrite Play rules. In this case rules are always consistant, so using your "I will ignore every single other rule that contradicts my narrow interpretation" logic instant fails.

Also UMD states :  "Use Magic Device lets you use a magic item as if you had the spell ability or class features of another class..." meaning it only allows you to do what a Caster would with the same scroll. When there is a contradiction of language RAI always applies.

Oma, beyond the first few levels that might actually be a point. At higher levels a basic Cure spell is meaningless, and havign the whole spectrum of Cures/Heals/Remove Disease/Poison/Break Enchantment/Remove Curse etc etc etc, heavily outweighs such puny things as Cure Minor.
No actually it doesn't Oma, again the rules are consistant, UMD doesn't allow the Rogue to do anything that a Wizard using the same scroll couldn't do. UMD is just using poor language, The rules for Scrolls and Spell Completion trump the UMD rules.

It should be further noted that the Scroll and Spell Completion rules are in the DMG, and the DMG always trumps the PHB because DM rules always overwrite Play rules. In this case rules are always consistant, so using your "I will ignore every single other rule that contradicts my narrow interpretation" logic instant fails.

Also UMD states :  "Use Magic Device lets you use a magic item as if you had the spell ability or class features of another class..." meaning it only allows you to do what a Caster would with the same scroll. When there is a contradiction of language RAI always applies.


Please read the thread of Counterspell the rules of D&D say that use a scroll is Casting that spell.

For it you gain all other counter parts of casting.

Oma, beyond the first few levels that might actually be a point. At higher levels a basic Cure spell is meaningless, and havign the whole spectrum of Cures/Heals/Remove Disease/Poison/Break Enchantment/Remove Curse etc etc etc, heavily outweighs such puny things as Cure Minor.



And for a single class building the healer is the best for heal, if you going to use an advanced building rember that the healer can do it as well.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
First Oma, that was irrelevant to the thread because it was refering to scrolls being counterspelled, not scrolls being used to counterspell.

Additionally you are again trying to manipulate words, and taking advantage of unrelated word usage. that FAQ also said Casting Spells from Wands and Staffs. So again manipulating language is not the same as the actual rules Oma.

"Casting a spell from a Wand" means "Triggering" the spell or "Activating" the Wand and doesn't mean Meta-magic feats can be applied. Under wands it states this:

Activation

Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.


Rules aren't made by exploiting and manipulating language Oma. Casting a spell does not mean you are casting a spell, but rather activating an item that casts that spell, so misquoting an irrelevant rule proves nothing but that you are willing to lie to make your point.
   
Again... No. The cleric is the best at healing. Add in the fact that it can outfight the fighter and cast almost as well as a wizard, and you've got the reason that nobody EVER plays a Healer. It heals about as well as an optimized paladin, it casts about as well as a warmage, and it fights about as well as the average street urchin.
And, again, you want a challenge? Make a Divine Mind that's worth playing.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Again... No. The cleric is the best at healing. Add in the fact that it can outfight the fighter and cast almost as well as a wizard, and you've got the reason that nobody EVER plays a Healer. It heals about as well as an optimized paladin, it casts about as well as a warmage, and it fights about as well as the average street urchin.
And, again, you want a challenge? Make a Divine Mind that's worth playing.

again i talk about "heal others" only not other things remember i was saying that a healer are for be a city healer not an adventurer because can't fight well and dont have attack spells.

But still if you need a cure a healer do a better work that a cleric.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.

Sorry but in All FQA or RC the rules never say it, the questions of the persons say it not the offcial answer but as official is described that YOU CAST the spell from the Scroll.

like in the case of the scroll that say "when you try to cast the spell from the scroll"
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Sorry Oma, but the rulebook also says "casting a spell from a wand. You are misquoting and irrelevant rule, The language refers to using an item to cast a spell, not to casting the spell yourself.

Or else explain why the rulebook states under Wands "casting a spell from a wand " That is an official rule Oma, Published in physical print in a hardcover book, gloss paper with color pictures, there is even a leather bound special edition. You cast a spell from a wand.

It says "casting a spell from a wand", because in context it is refering to activating a wand to cast a spell, the same as in your misquote of the FAQ

Misquoting rules out of context and manipulating language is worthless, completely and absolutely worthless except that it shows exactly how wrong you are.

"Casting a spell from a wand" official rule, means you activate the wand.

"Casting a spell from a scroll" simply means you activate a scroll.

You cannot use meta-magic feats and other abilities to manipulate, change or alter the spell when you activate an item.

Sorry but if you have the last book Rule compendium it say in use wands "actived a wand" and in Use Scroll "cast form a scroll".

Like CometFall is changed from CD in SC.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, it says Activate a Wand in the DMG as well. It also states specific rules for magic items in the DMG, including Wands and Item creation.

The Rules Compendium, while a useful compilation of the rules, isn't the complete rules. It doesn't contain individual rules for spells, Classes, Spell lists, Feats, and Magic items. So you basically still need the PHB and DMG to play.


In point of fact the Rules Compendium mentions Wands and Staffs under UMD and Spell trigger, but doesn't actually give the complete rules for Wands and Staffs. In short you still need the DMG and the rules for Staffs and Wands in the DMG are still the Officla rules.


Both Staffs and Wands state in the DMG the same Language  "casting a spell from a wand " and  "so casting a spell from a staff" and are the official rules.


Additionally the FAQ that you quoted as Official Rules also states:

"Can you counterspell a spell cast from a wand, stave, or scroll with a spell?"
 
So it uses the same language for all three items, and it is refering to activating the item
again i talk about "heal others" only not other things remember i was saying that a healer are for be a city healer not an adventurer because can't fight well and dont have attack spells.

But still if you need a cure a healer do a better work that a cleric.



Not really...they only get a slight buff to their healing spells (based on their Charisma modifier) and get one or two 'spells' sooner than an equal-levelled Cleric (and they get access to one off-list 'spell';  not taking into account the spell list itself...even there, there are only a few that come a level earlier), but they can't apply divine feats to their spells (since those require turn or rebuke).  That's it;  whatever they do, another class will do much better.  Sure, you can make the argument that they're 'useful' because they can fill one or two niches, but you could also have that role filled by someone else that does what you need.

Oma, your 'optimised' Healer is junk...I could build one that'd take yours in a fight with ease (and my characters aren't the best, either). 
Oma, it says Activate a Wand in the DMG as well. It also states specific rules for magic items in the DMG, including Wands and Item creation.

The Rules Compendium, while a useful compilation of the rules, isn't the complete rules. It doesn't contain individual rules for spells, Classes, Spell lists, Feats, and Magic items. So you basically still need the PHB and DMG to play.


In point of fact the Rules Compendium mentions Wands and Staffs under UMD and Spell trigger, but doesn't actually give the complete rules for Wands and Staffs. In short you still need the DMG and the rules for Staffs and Wands in the DMG are still the Officla rules.


Both Staffs and Wands state in the DMG the same Language  "casting a spell from a wand " and  "so casting a spell from a staff" and are the official rules.


Additionally the FAQ that you quoted as Official Rules also states:

"Can you counterspell a spell cast from a wand, stave, or scroll with a spell?"
 
So it uses the same language for all three items, and it is refering to activating the item

Sorry but contain the last actualization of rules and in this rules say that use a scroll is cast the spell from the scroll.

in almost all references the official description is cast the spell read the FQA the answers say it alot of times.

again this the question not the official answer, the question are made from players and  the answer are official support of the rule.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
again i talk about "heal others" only not other things remember i was saying that a healer are for be a city healer not an adventurer because can't fight well and dont have attack spells.

But still if you need a cure a healer do a better work that a cleric.



Not really...they only get a slight buff to their healing spells (based on their Charisma modifier) and get one or two 'spells' sooner than an equal-levelled Cleric (and they get access to one off-list 'spell';  not taking into account the spell list itself...even there, there are only a few that come a level earlier), but they can't apply divine feats to their spells (since those require turn or rebuke).  That's it;  whatever they do, another class will do much better.  Sure, you can make the argument that they're 'useful' because they can fill one or two niches, but you could also have that role filled by someone else that does what you need.

Oma, your 'optimised' Healer is junk...I could build one that'd take yours in a fight with ease (and my characters aren't the best, either). 

divine feats almost all are userless to cure better only divine metamagic but still the healer can use more times heal that a standard cleric if you calcule how many Hit points can cure a healer and how mush hit points can cure a cleric in the same day the healer have a lot of advantage.

and if you think you can do a Multipurpose Healer Building do it.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, the Rules Compendium does not have "the last actualization" of the rules; it provides a brief summary of the rules in one book for easy reference. Even at that late stage, WotC was getting all kinds of things wrong. Look at the "arcane swordsage" variant for a good example.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oma, the Rules Compendium does not have "the last actualization" of the rules; it provides a brief summary of the rules in one book for easy reference. Even at that late stage, WotC was getting all kinds of things wrong. Look at the "arcane swordsage" variant for a good example.

¬¬ yours ready never read the introduction of the books, and the arcane swordsage dont come in Rule Compendium and i know the books wrongs of the books like the one with HP +6 and initiative of 130 or something like that but for it exist the erratas.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma the question is Frequently Asked, and is reworded to fit the rules, the question is worded correctly.

The Rules Compendium is the latest official rules, However they don't contain the complete rules. In this case the Rules Compendium specifically doesn't contain the specific rules for each magic item or group of magic items (Weapons, Armor, Wands, Scrolls, Staffs, Rods, Rings, Wonderous Items etc etc) but just the general rules for Spell Trigger and Spell Completion, so you still need to refer to the DMG for the specific rules for these.

That means the DMG rules are still official because that section isn't covered in the RC.

It's akin to saying Paladins are no longer an official class becasue they aren't in the Rules Compendium....

In almost all references and the FAQ they refer to casting a spell from all the magic items, by which they mean Use/activate the item   

     
divine feats almost all are userless to cure better only divine metamagic but still the healer can use more times heal that a standard cleric if you calcule how many Hit points can cure a healer and how mush hit points can cure a cleric in the same day the healer have a lot of advantage.

and if you think you can do a Multipurpose Healer Building do it.



Taking the Healing Hands ability out of the equation, comparing the two gives them the exact same number of spells.  The Cleric, though, has spells that are more suitable for memorisation daily than just filling the slots with healing spells (which are mostly seen as inferior to control spells)...and they can drop those spells for healing spells if needed (the Healer can't).  The Healing Hands ability only slightly boosts the Healer's output (to get the most out of it, you'd need at least a 19 Wis and an 18 Cha to make it slightly useful)...the Cleric makes up for this by being better in combat (3/4 BAB as opposed to 1/2 BAB, better armor options, better weapon options, better skill selection, etc).  You can't exactly look at the Healer's cleansing abilities as being all that good, either...sure, they get one for free daily, but they're useless unless you're afflicted (and the same spells appear on the spell list anyway)...a Cleric that prepared those spells could drop them for healing, if needed.

As for the build, it'd take a while;  give me a little bit to get life in order and find my books.

Also, how the hell did this become about the red-headed stepchildren of the game? 
@Alsenra: it's Oma12; do I really need to say anything more?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls

ok maybe you don't understand that a healer is better using Cures Spell that a Cleric i never say that a Healer is more functional that a cleric to be the healer of a party I don't know what has to do the BA with healing again a healer Cure more Hit Point of damage in a single day that a cleric of the Same level.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma the question is Frequently Asked, and is reworded to fit the rules, the question is worded correctly.

The Rules Compendium is the latest official rules, However they don't contain the complete rules. In this case the Rules Compendium specifically doesn't contain the specific rules for each magic item or group of magic items (Weapons, Armor, Wands, Scrolls, Staffs, Rods, Rings, Wonderous Items etc etc) but just the general rules for Spell Trigger and Spell Completion, so you still need to refer to the DMG for the specific rules for these.

That means the DMG rules are still official because that section isn't covered in the RC.

It's akin to saying Paladins are no longer an official class becasue they aren't in the Rules Compendium....

In almost all references and the FAQ they refer to casting a spell from all the magic items, by which they mean Use/activate the item   

     

but the rule update say that you cast from a scroll you dont need more.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, or maybe the fact that everyone else is reading the same books and disagreeing with you, that might be your first hint that you are reading it wrong. None of us are illiterate, and all of us speak and read fluent English. It's not subject to opinion or interpretation.

If everyone else says you are wrong, then you are wrong, it's as simple as that.
@Draco - I know, but it's fun sometimes.  I still don't know how we ended up here...

ok maybe you don't understand that a healer is better using Cures Spell that a Cleric i never say that a Healer is more functional that a cleric to be the healer of a party I don't know what has to do the BA with healing again a healer Cure more Hit Point of damage in a single day that a cleric of the Same level.



Barely.  The only difference is the Healing Hands ability (which runs off of Charisma)...to make this any more useful than a domain (that comes with the Cleric), you'd need to invest heavily in Charisma modification.  A 30 Charisma (which is in the range of any high-end character that started with a decent Charisma) would only grant you 10 more HP healing per spell...a need that could've easily been nullified by having a character with a healing ability and a decent combat presence (Cleric, Paladin, etc.).  That's why I included the combat ability of the Cleric...damage not taken is better than damage taken, then healed (since it doesn't require wasting a resource that may be needed later on).
Oma the rules say that you cast from a Wand or Cast from a Staff or any other magic item.

It's a phrase that means you use the item, it is not the same as actually casting the spell.

And again the updated RC rules don't cover the Magic Items section of the DMG in detail, beyond a short entry od Spell trigger vs Spell Completion the RC doesn'tspecifically cover Wands, Scrolls, Magic Arms and Armor, Staffs, Wonderous Items, Magic rings, Rods, etc. You still need to refer tothe DMG for the specific rules, just as you still need the PHB for Classes, Feats, and spells etc. These are whole sections not covered in the Rules Compendium
Oma, or maybe the fact that everyone else is reading the same books and disagreeing with you, that might be your first hint that you are reading it wrong. None of us are illiterate, and all of us speak and read fluent English. It's not subject to opinion or interpretation.

If everyone else says you are wrong, then you are wrong, it's as simple as that.

Not i only say that the rules say, the rule compendium is the update of the rules?
the rule compendium say that you cast spells from a scroll?
the UMD check say that you cast spells from a scroll?
the oficcial FQA 3.5 (the part written by CofC) say that you cast from a scroll?
the rule of counterspell say that you need to cast the spell?
then why rule say that you don't cast and you only active the scroll???

and all of yours generally try to discredit me.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
@Draco - I know, but it's fun sometimes.  I still don't know how we ended up here...

ok maybe you don't understand that a healer is better using Cures Spell that a Cleric i never say that a Healer is more functional that a cleric to be the healer of a party I don't know what has to do the BA with healing again a healer Cure more Hit Point of damage in a single day that a cleric of the Same level.



Barely.  The only difference is the Healing Hands ability (which runs off of Charisma)...to make this any more useful than a domain (that comes with the Cleric), you'd need to invest heavily in Charisma modification.  A 30 Charisma (which is in the range of any high-end character that started with a decent Charisma) would only grant you 10 more HP healing per spell...a need that could've easily been nullified by having a character with a healing ability and a decent combat presence (Cleric, Paladin, etc.).  That's why I included the combat ability of the Cleric...damage not taken is better than damage taken, then healed (since it doesn't require wasting a resource that may be needed later on).

Yes is the point i know it but still if you do a cleric and a healer of the same level the healer can cure more first because have more spells and second because can add her Cha to each cure spell but again i was saying a healer is a City Nurse not an adventurer in a party is better a cleric because can't cure like a healer but is more practical
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma the rules say that you cast from a Wand or Cast from a Staff or any other magic item.

It's a phrase that means you use the item, it is not the same as actually casting the spell.

And again the updated RC rules don't cover the Magic Items section of the DMG in detail, beyond a short entry od Spell trigger vs Spell Completion the RC doesn'tspecifically cover Wands, Scrolls, Magic Arms and Armor, Staffs, Wonderous Items, Magic rings, Rods, etc. You still need to refer tothe DMG for the specific rules, just as you still need the PHB for Classes, Feats, and spells etc. These are whole sections not covered in the Rules Compendium

The last update of the RC in "Use" of each dont say it only in the Scroll. and as updated rules this rules overlap the rules of DMG.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, don't start with the persecution complex. We only "discredit" you when you're wrong. Which, unfortunately for your self-esteem, is often. When you're right, we either say that you're right or don't say anything at all.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oma, don't start with the persecution complex. We only "discredit" you when you're wrong. Which, unfortunately for your self-esteem, is often. When you're right, we either say that you're right or don't say anything at all.

MrC say that a creature slow can't make a ready action because this are 2 action the ready action as standard and when you do it you waste other action then a slow creature that can only do a single action can't make a ready and i was saying that you can because is the same action that you was ready, i was made a thread but no one say nothing.

Other the RC say that is a updated rule set to play D&D 3.5 and for yours maybe dont is it.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Also, how the hell did this become about the red-headed stepchildren of the game? 


Poster makes misleading or incorrect comment.
Other posters point out errors and make corrections.
Poster states that other posters are wrong and starts scouring rules for ANYTHING that remotely supports earlier statements. 
Other posters point out how the rules are supposed to be read.  May provide examples.
Poster continues to fight other posters but now has something a little different (the examples) and goes after those in effort to prove point.
Repeat last two steps continually until threat is talking about something barely related to original post.
 
Oma, don't start with the persecution complex. We only "discredit" you when you're wrong. Which, unfortunately for your self-esteem, is often. When you're right, we either say that you're right or don't say anything at all.

MrC say that a creature slow can't make a ready action because this are 2 action the ready action as standard and when you do it you waste other action then a slow creature that can only do a single action can't make a ready and i was saying that you can because is the same action that you was ready, i was made a thread but no one say nothing.

Other the RC say that is a updated rule set to play D&D 3.5 and for yours maybe dont is it.


Draco1119 is right.  When you are right we either post to agree or we just stay away because what needed to be said had already been said.  The problem is that when you're wrong, or perhaps even worse just mostly wrong, and we try to correct you things just blow up.  Many of use have been around since 3.0 came out or before and we've already seen all of the things you bring up before.  Back then an "official" response may have come down from somewhere (although Customer Service actually wasn't a reliable source) but that just isn't going to happen anymore and I know I never tracked them or where to find them.

Now what does a Slowed creature and Readied Actions have to do with anything in this thread?  I believe this is called "Deflection" as you are "losing" so badly on the topic that you need to try getting people to look at something else that is totally unrelated.

are examples for Draco1119 of how you dont do what are you are saying now.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Yes Oma, they overlap the DMG, and the DMG specifically use the same exact terms when refering to other magic items, such as wands and staffs.

Cast a spell from a wand, Cast a spell from a Staff, Cast a spell from a scroll, Cast a spell from the little boy who lives down the lane.

All of which are refering to "using/activating a magic item"

That is why under Scrolls in the DMG, and the RC doesn't have a specific section on this, it refers to:

when the spell is activated
To activate a scroll
activate its magic
use the scroll
Activate the Spell
Activating a scroll
Activating a scroll spell
activating the spell
Activating a scroll spell 
Using a scroll
activating a scroll spell the
scroll user 
use scrolls 
spell successfully activated
an activated spell
the spell activates
 
Catch the trend there? they use this language more under Scrolls then they do any other magical item description, and not just "activate a scroll" but more specifically "Activating the spell" 

Casting a spell from a magic item is not the same as Casting a spell via inate spell casting. In this context it is refering to activating the item, the same as when you "cast a spell from a wand"  You can't alter it.
  
   
Oma, the last time I agreed with you, because you were right, you instantly started arguing against me and posted out how I was wrong.

Dunno what to say man, but a conversation is a 2-way street, you need try and understand what the other person is saying and spend more time discussing and less time just disagreeing and ignoring every rule that disagree's with yours. 
Yes is the point i know it but still if you do a cleric and a healer of the same level the healer can cure more first because have more spells and second because can add her Cha to each cure spell but again i was saying a healer is a City Nurse not an adventurer in a party is better a cleric because can't cure like a healer but is more practical



More spells?  Take a look at the list - Clerics and Healers get the same number of spells.  Healers may get class abilities that mimic spells, but they're not spells in their own right.

I know that you're trying to say that a Healer is more suited towards staying in one place...so why'd you bring up the optimising angle (especially since you posted a level 20 build)??  As someone said earlier, they're on par with Warriors and Experts (NPC classes). 
Yes is the point i know it but still if you do a cleric and a healer of the same level the healer can cure more first because have more spells and second because can add her Cha to each cure spell but again i was saying a healer is a City Nurse not an adventurer in a party is better a cleric because can't cure like a healer but is more practical



More spells?  Take a look at the list - Clerics and Healers get the same number of spells.  Healers may get class abilities that mimic spells, but they're not spells in their own right.

I know that you're trying to say that a Healer is more suited towards staying in one place...so why'd you bring up the optimising angle (especially since you posted a level 20 build)??  As someone said earlier, they're on par with Warriors and Experts (NPC classes). 

you need check again the healer is almost like a sorserer in spells he gain more spells slot more faster but at last is the same at Level 20 only if the cleric are from the cure domaind, but still the Healer can cure more amount of Hit Points.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, the last time I agreed with you, because you were right, you instantly started arguing against me and posted out how I was wrong.

Dunno what to say man, but a conversation is a 2-way street, you need try and understand what the other person is saying and spend more time discussing and less time just disagreeing and ignoring every rule that disagree's with yours. 

in this case what prevent that some one use an ability that not is a Metamagic feat in an Item???

Under the rules is casted and many abilities only say that need be casted if you are casting the spell from a scroll then you still you meet the fact "cast" and the only restriction for a magic items is the use of metamagic feats.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Except the healer lacks offensive and destructive spells and wears light armor, no metal armor and can`t have a shield, thus is vulnerable to attack as she lacks overall defensive capabilities that a regular cleric has.
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