Wizards R&D ruined Izzet...

94 posts / 0 new
Last post
What were you thinking when you came up with the mechanic for Izzet??

You failed horribly with RtR in terms of the Izzet and their mechanic and deck potential is really terrible.

Making a blue/red deck need more mana to take advantage of the guild "perk" is total fail.  It's clunky, it has no mana ramp and for red/blue is a worse "slow play" type of deck than the Azorius.

Any attempt to correct this or was it really just a big R&D complete fail?
boo flexibility ;_;
The Izzet mechanic is one of the better ones, less-than-kicker problems aside.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

so Replicate (the previous Izzet Mechanic) was free?
interesting, I always played it wrong it seems
proud member of the 2011 community team
I think it's a pretty big flavor fail but it isn't a bad mechanic. To me if an Izzet mage is going big they are going BIGGGG, and they should be hitting everything on the board. It wouldn't be one-sided, but Izzet isn't about one-sided controlled effects. They could just cost it down and be good to go. Mizzium mortars is a joke card, it's a worse Flame Slash, though it is flexible.
57170298 wrote:
Borrowing the East Wind (P3) - Haha, it's like Hurricane but for horsemanship? That makes hilariously little sense. "Oh man, the wind is so much worse up on this horse."
57044478 wrote:
Jon Finkel can win a Magic tournament with a ham sandwich. That doesn't mean ham sandwiches are now the metagame breaker.
97820278 wrote:
Koth: I'm the first viable red planeswalker. Who are you? Tibalt: I'm a two-mana red planeswalker. Koth: I'm the last viable red planeswalker.
so Replicate (the previous Izzet Mechanic) was free?
interesting, I always played it wrong it seems

replicate wasn't free, but it was an additional spell with much less risk than a simple replicate.  If Mizz Mortars get countered when you pay it's overload cost, you're out so much more.  It's poor design.  plain and simple.  red/blue should be about speed, not slowplay and reaction
if any spell gets countered you don't get the mana back

I still fail to see the problem
proud member of the 2011 community team
their mechanic fits perfectly from a flavor perspective
sure, it might not be tournament worthy, but it is in no way bad
proud member of the 2011 community team
their mechanic fits perfectly from a flavor perspective
sure, it might not be tournament worthy, but it is in no way bad

It doesn't fit.  It's bad.  check out this lore provided by Wizards themselves.  How does overload fit into that?  I feel like temperamental Niv and short attention span to me indicated a more erratic play style, not a slow play/reaction style that they now have...


Izzet League

My Ingenuity. My Obsession. My Guild.

The Izzet are obsessive experimenters, the epitome of keen creative intellect combined with an unfortunately short attention span. The original mandate of the Izzet guild was to provide solutions for public works projects (sewers, boilers, roadways), but their experiments often produce mana geysers, spatial rifts, or arcane portals instead. As of late, their guildmaster, the dragon Niv-Mizzet, has driven the Izzet to delve deeper and deeper into more dangerous and experimental magic. The purpose of these experiments is unknown.


The Izzet are obsessive experimenters, the epitome of keen creative intellect combined with an unfortunately short attention span. The original mandate of the Izzet guild was to provide solutions for public works projects (sewers, boilers, roadways), but their experiments often produce mana geysers, spatial rifts, or arcane portals instead. As of late, their guildmaster, the dragon Niv-Mizzet, has driven the Izzet to delve deeper and deeper into more dangerous and experimental magic. The purpose of these experiments is unknown.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?



The Izzet are obsessive experimenters, the epitome of keen creative intellect combined with an unfortunately short attention span. The original mandate of the Izzet guild was to provide solutions for public works projects (sewers, boilers, roadways), but their experiments often produce mana geysers, spatial rifts, or arcane portals instead. As of late, their guildmaster, the dragon Niv-Mizzet, has driven the Izzet to delve deeper and deeper into more dangerous and experimental magic. The purpose of these experiments is unknown.

I'm assuming you're aggreeing with me that overload is a fail mechanic.  they should have gotten a mechanic like "Failed Experiment - Remove this card and another instant/sorcery from your graveyard; deal 2 damage to target creature/player."

reward you for your failed experiments, so even if your spells get countered, you can still use the "knowledge" gained from the failed experiments to attack your opponent.
ITT Enigma was called a forum troll
I dunno, it seems pretty cool to me.

"Are you sure this is safe?"
"SHUT UP, SET THE POWER LEVEL TO OVERLOAD, AND NUKE EVERYTHING!' 
I hate dogs.


The Izzet are obsessive experimenters, the epitome of keen creative intellect combined with an unfortunately short attention span. The original mandate of the Izzet guild was to provide solutions for public works projects (sewers, boilers, roadways), but their experiments often produce mana geysers, spatial rifts, or arcane portals instead. As of late, their guildmaster, the dragon Niv-Mizzet, has driven the Izzet to delve deeper and deeper into more dangerous and experimental magic. The purpose of these experiments is unknown.

I'm assuming you're aggreeing with me that overload is a fail mechanic.  they should have gotten a mechanic like "Failed Experiment - Remove this card and another instant/sorcery from your graveyard; deal 2 damage to target creature/player."

reward you for your failed experiments, so even if your spells get countered, you can still use the "knowledge" gained from the failed experiments to attack your opponent.

no, he was highlighting why overload makes sense and fits
and if you want to get value out of countered spells, use Nivmagus Elemental, coincidentally that's also Izzet
proud member of the 2011 community team
I dunno, it seems pretty cool to me.

"Are you sure this is safe?"
"SHUT UP, SET THE POWER LEVEL TO OVERLOAD, AND NUKE SPECIFICALLY THE ENEMIES PERMANENTS IN A CONTROLLED MANNER NOT BEFITTING THE IZZET AT ALL!' 



57170298 wrote:
Borrowing the East Wind (P3) - Haha, it's like Hurricane but for horsemanship? That makes hilariously little sense. "Oh man, the wind is so much worse up on this horse."
57044478 wrote:
Jon Finkel can win a Magic tournament with a ham sandwich. That doesn't mean ham sandwiches are now the metagame breaker.
97820278 wrote:
Koth: I'm the first viable red planeswalker. Who are you? Tibalt: I'm a two-mana red planeswalker. Koth: I'm the last viable red planeswalker.

Well you obviously don't understand magic, Izzet or the color red and blue.  Go away forum troll.




The raven calls the crow black. 

"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
Failed experiment would be a better mechanic.  sorry.  Overload is not epic, good, or fun to play.  yeah, punish the 2 colors with no mana ramp by making their spells cost more....  fail.
again, what's with the "mana ramp" talk?
Replicate also cost extra mana, so that is a silly argument
you are also not forced to pay the overload cost, most spells are fine for their regular cost

Overload fits perfectly to the "insane scientist" Izzet has going on
it screams "moar power" and is very fun
proud member of the 2011 community team
Failed experiment would be a better mechanic.  sorry.  Overload is not epic, good, or fun to play.  yeah, punish the 2 colors with no mana ramp by making their spells cost more....  fail.


Yeah because Red and blue aren't known for having giant overpriced spells.
again, what's with the "mana ramp" talk?
Replicate also cost extra mana, so that is a silly argument
you are also not forced to pay the overload cost, most spells are fine for their regular cost

Overload fits perfectly to the "insane scientist" Izzet has going on
it screams "moar power" and is very fun

Moar power isn't funny, nor does it win games.

Replicate cost mana but not nearly as much and is a boon for having extra mana lying around.

Overload "requires" the extra mana, so it's an essential to have as much mana as you can get, but there is no mana ramp in red/blue...

So moar power is a cool concept for kids, but clearly doesn't work as a mechanic for the most faultered guild from RtR.
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors
proud member of the 2011 community team
Think of it as "perpetual motion is impossible", if you must.

I'd say Rakdos is a bigger fail. If I were going to do unleashed, it would be "blah blah blah attacks each turn if able" instead of "blah blah blah cannot block".

On "mana ramp", aren't red and blue tied for second in that?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Taunting aside I like the mechanic too. It's versatile and flavorful in context. Mizzium mortars and cyclonic rift have done great things for me at either cost. How many games have you playtested these two cards specifically? I think you may want to give them another shot. Just say'n.....
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.


Yet you don't complain about any of the other guilds being bad... Seeing that Rakdos was terrible first time around and this time why aren't you fighting for them to get better? Red and black are also the worst colors in magic currently so there's that too. 
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.

it's not a big fail
as I said it fits flavour perfectly and works nice with the original mechanic

you either play your favourite colors, or you play a deck to win, the two are rarely the same
proud member of the 2011 community team
WHile Izzet may not be the powerhouse now Izzet cards don't have to be in a R/U deck. Toss a MM in your B/R deck to clear the board for that turn six swing and win. Think out side the box a bit and you can find a crushing combo for most cards in MTG.
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.


Yet you don't complain about any of the other guilds being bad... Seeing that Rakdos was terrible first time around and this time why aren't you fighting for them to get better? Red and black are also the worst colors in magic currently so there's that too. 

Azorius was terrible in the first Ravnica.  They are better now.

Rakdos isn't as bad as Izzet and I have seen some of the Rakdos cards really find a place in certain decks.

Izzet is just punishing to play, as a guild, as a mechanic and in any sort of play outside of sealed.
now I know you are trolling when you are calling Rakdos better than Izzet
proud member of the 2011 community team
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.


Yet you don't complain about any of the other guilds being bad... Seeing that Rakdos was terrible first time around and this time why aren't you fighting for them to get better? Red and black are also the worst colors in magic currently so there's that too. 

Azorius was terrible in the first Ravnica.  They are better now.

Rakdos isn't as bad as Izzet and I have seen some of the Rakdos cards really find a place in certain decks.

Izzet is just punishing to play, as a guild, as a mechanic and in any sort of play outside of sealed.


If by better you mean that since Azorius was feces the first time anything mariginally better would be a large improvement then yes. 

Rakdos is awful. You're just wrong.  
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.



That's green 99% of the time, at least in limited. I fail to see the issue.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
if you want to win, don't play Izzet
simple

not all decks are created equal, neither are all colors

Exactly.  Then what's the point of making them, their guild or their cards??

Wizards R&D - "Well we made Izzet knowing they will always lose games, but hey, moar power, so it's cool."

Yeah I don't remember that happening.  Honestly.  It's just a big fail.



That's green 99% of the time, at least in limited. I fail to see the issue.

Don't bring back Ravnica if you can't do it right.

I guess I should only expect so much "originality" from a company like Wizards who ruined D&D too...
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.



Got any Mizziums Mortars? I'll give you $.50 a pop for them. That cards sucks.
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.

many people seem to enjoy Izzet
I know I get from it exactly what I expect from a guild
proud member of the 2011 community team
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.



Got any Mizziums Mortars? I'll give you $.50 a pop for them. That cards sucks.

You can pretty much have all my RtR cards.  The set so far has been a pretty big disappointment.
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.

many people seem to enjoy Izzet
I know I get from it exactly what I expect from a guild

Many people are sheep.  Your comment is invalid.
Izzet in RtR is a fail.  having to play their cards in other decks ruins the whole reason guilds exist.  So basically Izzet is a support guild for anything else that has blue or red so those decks can splash in the 2 izzet cards that don't suck.

Yay!  what a win for Wizards and RtR.



Got any Mizziums Mortars? I'll give you $.50 a pop for them. That cards sucks.

You can pretty much have all my RtR cards.  The set so far has been a pretty big disappointment.



SWEET! I PM'd you my address. Do you need me to pay for shipping or will you cover that?
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
I'll cover the shipping.  I won't be wasting any more money on this set that clearly wasn't thought out or well planned.  Thanks for nothing... again.  Wizards.
I dislike how many people use Jace as their avatar.
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
I'll cover the shipping.  I won't be wasting any more money on this set that clearly wasn't thought out or well planned.  Thanks for nothing... again.  Wizards.



I think I just grew a wart from all this trolling. Hehe. Peace out gentlemen. Enjoy your day, or not.....
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
I'll cover the shipping.  I won't be wasting any more money on this set that clearly wasn't thought out or well planned.  Thanks for nothing... again.  Wizards.



I think I just grew a wart from all this trolling. Hehe. Peace out gentlemen. Enjoy your day, or not.....

People are winners.  Much like the people posting in this forum when I'm trying to have a real discussion about how bad the mechanic for Izzet really is...

Izzet guild mechanic is the equivalent of flanking, lol.