Jedi "Masters"

I want to come up with some Masters for two 3rd level Jedi. Whats a good level for shoot for? Around 10 is what I was thinking. Is that too low? Also its females generally apprentice females and males for males right?
Yeah, level 10 would be good.  A mechanically correct Jedi Master will be around level 13, although Obi-wan did pick up Anakin as an apprentice, and Obi-wan was probably still a Knight at the time.

It seems pretty reasonable that most of the time Jedi would pair apprentices with members of the same gender for a number of reasons:  appropriate appearence (male and female couples sometimes look out of place and can be taken wrong) and gender compatability (men generally learn how to be a man from another man, women likewise with women) are the first ones that come to mind, although there are undoubtedly others.

Now, having said this, it is not unheard of that Master/apprentice pairings are cross gender.  Anakin and Ahsoka are the most public such pair at the moment, but others include Shaak Ti and an unnamed male.  I'm still searching for other references, so I'll post them if I find them.  And if your campaign is in the Rebellion or Legacy era, fewer Jedi means you train under whoever is willing to help you, male or female.

In any event, it's ultimately your campaign, and you can have males tutor females or viceversa and be completely fine.

As an afterthought, I found this.  Same question gets asked by this guy about Master/apprentice pairings based on gender.
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What is the purpose and intended use for these "Master Jedi?"  I'd also ask how you want to define a "Jedi Master" in terms of what it can do?  I may shoot at ten levels but if I plan on having this master adventuring with the PCs MANY of those levels will be in the Non-heroic class.
Thanks for the replies. Mostly the "Master's" will be window dressing but they will make an appearance at some point. Its a NJO era game so if I do the Battle of Ithor they will show up. I'm probably gonna kill one of them in the battle. Mostly I just want to flesh out a master/apprentice (refuse to call them Padawan because that term doesnt exist in the future) relationship for both Jedi in the group.



Level 10 is fine. The only caution I would advise is when the masters are travelling with the players. When this happens, the masters tend to outshine the PC’s in almost every way and the players can feel restricted or stifled.


As for gender, I think generally it’s male to male and female to female, although there are some exceptions. If you want to create a master-apprentice relationship and you want to provoke an emotional response from a male player, then the master should be like a big brother or a father figure. That way, when you kill him off, you can provoke an emotional response from the player.


 


 

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Yeah, level 10 would be good.  A mechanically correct Jedi Master will be around level 13, although Obi-wan did pick up Anakin as an apprentice, and Obi-wan was probably still a Knight at the time.
...

Here I'll disagree with the "mechanically correct" term.  The Jedi Master class may not be available before 13th-level but that title certainly could be bestowed before then.  The same is also true about Jedi Knights and the PrC of that name.  This is why I ask how you want to define a "Jedi Master" because the truth is that a Non-heroic 20 could EASILY be considered a "Jedi Master" if you're defining the term based on UtF skill modifier and perhaps even Force Powers used; also note this character is only CL 6 and really not too much stronger overall then your 3rd-level heroes.

I once did a thread on writing up and building up a Sith Lord from CL 7 to CL 14 with "Sith Lord" being defined as a character who could use Force Secrets.  With some minor bending of the Lightsaber creation rules (drop "seven heroic levels" to just "seven level" as was done with the PrC requirements) I could do the same witha Jedi Master.

If your Jedi Masters are mostly going to be "window dressing" I'll say their stats don't matter too much and will actually encourage you to build them as simply as possible using mostly non-heroic levels.  Using non-heroic levels also means that when the time comes for you to "kill them off" it is a lot easier to do so while using a threat the "grieving apprentice" could then deal with.

I guess I'd define "Jedi Master" in the Master/Apprentice relationship as being someone who can use a Force Technique.  Assuming you use my minor alteration for lightsaber construction I believe the best way to do that would be NH8/Jedi1/JK2.  This is an 11th-level character but only CL 5 so it isn't much stronger then your 3rd-level PCs.  It would have a +9 BAB and base +5 on skills before training and focus but its DEFENSE scores are only 15s based on class and level and all those levels of with a d4 HD (and no triple max starting hp) aren't going to give it a lot of hitpoints unless it has a good CON score.

Here is a basic outline for this CL 5 "Jedi Knight":
Non-heroic8/Jedi1/JK2
FP 6, DP 1 (may adjust as needed with 11/3 as max values)
hp 45; REF 16 (15ff), FORT 15, WILL 16; Block, Deflect (UtF +15)
Melee Attack:  +11 lightsaber (1d8+3)
STR 12, DEX 12, CON 10, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10
Talents:  Block, Deflect
Force Technique:  ???? (Choose appropriate to your campaign)
Force Powers:  Choose 4
Feats:  Force Sensitivity, WP (simple, lightsaber), Skill Training (UtF), Skill Focus (UtF), Force Training x2, ?one open?.
Skills: +5 base; Acrobatics (or one other) +11, UtF +15
Possessions:  Self Built Lightsaber, Jedi Robes.

This basic model leaves a few things open for you to fill in (Technique, Powers, one feat, and Species/species modifiers) but gives you a character who is AMAZING with the force (but feel free to drop SF for another trained skills if desired) has accurate attacks and a good defense due to Block/Deflect but who can go down quickly if overwhelmed.  Your Jedi3 should have DEF Scores and hitpoints that are very comprable.

One of the most famous master/apprentice pairings was Quinlan Vos and Aayla Secura.

In short, gender makes absolutely no difference.
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Oh, forgot to comment on the gender thing.  If you consider that you see different SPECIES mixed up in the master/apprentice pairing I don't imagine gender would be an over riding concern.
Thanks again for the great responses. This is gonna be my first time as a DM and I want to try to make it special for everyone. One of the players wants to be a Miraluka Jedi. Thats gonna be interesting with the Yuuzhan Vong
Haha oh wow. I'm 100% for taking "cool" or "what I like" over "what is the most efficient build" but I'd seriously advise that player to change species if he doesn't want to be useless for 50% or more of the fights.
One question I've seen appear frequently on the forums in one form or another -- and it rears its head again a couple of times in this thread -- is how to have a high level Jedi Master NPC accompany a low-level padawan PC.

Options include building the Jedi Master as a wholly or partially non-heroic character, or to simply have the Master send the PC padawan on his own missions.  But for those times when you want a heroic Jedi Master accompany low level PCs without overshadowing them, I've tried my best to create a dedicated party-buffing Jedi Master while minimizing the stealing of the PCs' thunder on the battlefield:

Party-Buffing Jedi                    CL 11


Medium Scout 3 / Soldier 1 / Noble 3 / Jedi 2 / Pathfinder 2
Force 11; Destiny 11 (Creation)1 
Init +10; Senses Perception +12
Languages Basic, High Galactic, Bocce, Huttese, Sith, Kaminoan
Defenses Ref 23 (flat-footed 23), Fort 28, Will 25
hp 104; Threshold 28
Speed 6 squares, Surefooted (ignore difficult terrain)
Melee lightsaber + 8 (2d8+4)
Ranged as weapon +8
Base Atk + 8; Grp + 8
Atk Options Bolster Ally2, Brink of Death3, Create Cover4, Draw Fire5, Inspire Confid.6, Safe Zone7 
Force Powers Known (UtF +22): Blind8, Circle of Shelter9, Enlighten10, Inspire11, Obscure12, Vital Transfer13
Abilities Str 9 (-1), Dex 10 (0), Con 16 (+3), Int 14 (+2), Wis 15 (+2), Cha 12 (+1)
Special Qualities Create Cover
Talents Acute Senses (may reroll Perception), Surefooted (ignore difficult terrain), Draw Fire5, Bolster Ally2, Inspire Confidence6, Skilled Advisor14, Safe Zone
Feats Force Sensitive, Force Training (x2), Weapon Proficiencies (Lightsabers, Pistols, Rifles, Simple), Shake It Off15, Skill Training (Ride, Knowledge: Life Sciences), Armor Proficiency (Light), Linguist, Bad Feeling16, Cut the Red Tape17, Mission Specialist (Use the Force)18, Brink of Death3 
Skills Endurance +13, Gather Information -> use Knowledge: bureaucracy, Knowledges (bureaucracy, galactic lore, life sciences) +12, Perception +12 (may reroll, take 2nd), Ride +10, Survival +12, Swim +10, Use the Force +11
Possessions lightsaber (self-built), Jedi robes, Utility Belt (3-day supply of food capsules, medpac, took kit, spare power pack, spare energy cell, glow rod, comlink, liquid cable dispenser with small grappling hook, and a couple of empty .5 kg pouches)

1 Destiny Bonus: For 24 hrs, you & any allies w/in 10 sq. gain a +1 Destiny bonus on skill & ability checks.  Destiny Penalty: you take a -2 penalty on Skill & Ability checks for 24 hrs. Destiny Fulfilled: You or any ally within line of sight can spend 2 Force Points in a single round while performing an action using the created object.
2 Bolster Ally: StAct to move 1 ally w/in LoS +1 CT step & give him bonus hps = his Char. Lvl. (if he’s at ½ his max. hps). Bonus hps get used first & disappear at end of encounter if unused. You can’t bolster same ally > 1x per encounter and you can’t bolster yourself.
3 Brink of Death: Instead of killing a target, you can opt to render it unconscious with 0 hps instead.
4 Create Cover: StAct to fill 1 adjacent square per encounter with low objects, providing anyone adjacent to the square with cover against distant attackers.
Draw Fire:  SwAct to make Persuasion vs. Will of all enemies in LoS to make that enemy unable to attack any character w/in 6 squares of you (but may attack you) until the start of your next turn, provided you don’t have cover vs. that enemy.
Inspire Confidence: StAct to grant all allies in LoS +1 morale bonus on Atk rolls & Skill checks for rest of encounter or until you’re unconscious/dead. Once inspired, allies need not stay within LoS.
Safe Zone: StAct to designate 4x4 sq. area (1 sq. must be yours) until end of the encounter in which allies starting a turn there gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Fort & Will until start of ally’s next turn. Can dispel safe zone & create new one as StAct provided no square of the new zone overlaps with any square of the old zone. No safe zone may overlap with other Pathfinders’ safe zone.
8 Blind: UtF as SwAct vs. the Reflex of one target w/in 12 sq. of you and w/in LoS to render target flat-footed and to give all other creatures concealment from the target until start of your next turn; creatures who do not rely on eyesight are immune
9 Circle of Shelter: UtF as StAct to grant all adjacent allies +1, +2 or +5 deflection bonus to Reflex (DC 20, 25 or 30)
10 Enlighten: UtF as SwAct or React. To allow all allies w/in 12 sq. & LoS to use your check in lieu of one Atk roll, Skill check or opposed check made before start of your next turn or one Defense until start of your next turn (may spend a Force point to prolong the effect until the end of your next turn)
11 Inspire [Light Side]:UtF as SwAct to grant all allies w/in 6 sq. & LoS +2, +5, +10 Force bonus to Will or Immunity vs. mind affecting or fear effects (DC 20, 25, 30 and 35 respectively)
12 Obscure [Mind Affecting]: UtF vs. Will as React. to impose -5 on target’s Atk roll; if target misses, make it reroll Atk at -5 vs. a target adjacent to it (spend FP to apply the penalty to all the target’s Atk rolls made until the start of its next turn)
13 Vital Transfer: UtF as StAct to heal 2x, 3x or 4x target’s char. lvl. in hps; take ½ as much damage (unless you spend a FP); may spend DP to also raise target +5 CT steps
14 Skilled Advisor [Mind Affecting]: F-R Act to grant an ally +5 on next Skill check (spend FP to grant +10)
15 Shake It Off: 2 SwActs (instead of 3) to move +1 CT step
16 Bad Feeling: Always take a MoAct in a surprise round; if not surprised, take the MoAct in addition to any other action you take
17 Cut the Red Tape: use Knowledge (bureaucracy) in place of Gather Information
18 Mission Specialist (Use the Force): Allies within 12 squares of you and not trained in Use the Force get +2 competence bonus to Use the Force
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you can even make them CL 8.  After all, Obi-Wan took his own apprentice virtually as soon as he was granted the title of Knight.
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Nope it's her choice. I'll let her figure out a way to "see" the Vong.
Nope it's her choice. I'll let her figure out a way to "see" the Vong.


Well, It's been a while since I've read a book with the Vong in it, and I don't remember ever reading about Miraluka/Vong interactions, but since the force is everywhere, could not they sense the displacement of the Vong in the surrounding force? 
Nope it's her choice. I'll let her figure out a way to "see" the Vong.


Well, It's been a while since I've read a book with the Vong in it, and I don't remember ever reading about Miraluka/Vong interactions, but since the force is everywhere, could not they sense the displacement of the Vong in the surrounding force? 

According to the description of the Miraluka's Force Sight in KOTOR page 16:

"Although blind, Miraluka can "see" by using the Force. They act normally without taking any penalties for blindness when in the presence of living creatures or life of any kind. This trait enables them to make Perception checks, and read and write as a sighted person. They can ignore the effect of darkness as if they had darkvision. Miraluka cannot, however, detect creatures that are "invisible" to the Force such as the Yuuzhan Vong and the ysalamiri. These creatures have total concealment from Miraluka, as do creatures in areas that dampen or suppress the Force."

I wonder though: Can a Mirakula use the Sense Surroundings aspect of the UtF skill to detect the Vong?


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Just get a lightsaber with a lambent crystal (spelling?). Also, in the LECG, it stats that Sense Surroundings can be use to detect the "hole" in the Force the Vong make.
Yes, I know I misspelled "Jensaarai".
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Just get a lightsaber with a lambent crystal (spelling?).

I looked up the Lambent crystal (JATL 59). It says, “If you wield an attuned lightsaber with a lambent crystal, you ignore the normal penalties when using the Sense Force and Sense Surrounding applications of the Use the Force skill to sense Yuuzhan Vong.”

But it doesn’t say what those penalties are.



Also, in the LECG, it stats that Sense Surroundings can be use to detect the "hole" in the Force the Vong make.

Where in the book is that? I can't find it.



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Last part of page 33, first part of page 34.
Yes, I know I misspelled "Jensaarai".
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Well it should be rather easy for her, the Vong is where nothing is. At some point though I will let her stumble upon a lambent crystal.
Exactly. She should be able to sense a void in the Force where a Yuuzhan Vong is. 


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I know that Anakin did the lambent thing, but none of the players have read the book so the blind Jedi can too