I... I'm Not Sure Where This Came From...

The rules said Monks can’t be Chaotic.


The forums said, “Are you neurotic?


It’s poking big holes,


In 5E’s design goals.


Restrictions like that are despotic!”


 


Alignment restrictions are skunky.


My Chaotic Monk’s now a flunkie.


If Lawful must be,


Could someone tell me,


Which discipline teaches Drunk Monkey?

"Our idea of rules modules has a wide range of scope; sometimes, our rules modules might just be small tweaks and variant rules, while other times they could be large-scale changes and entirely new subsystems. We want people to make the game their own, and that means provided a whole array of possibilities based on what you, the players, tell us that you want." -D&DNext Q&A Blog, 8/29/12, Answer #3.
....



D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

The rules said Monks can’t be Chaotic.


The forums said, “Are you neurotic?


It’s poking big holes,


In 5E’s design goals.


Restrictions like that are despotic!”


 


Alignment restrictions are skunky.


My Chaotic Monk’s now a flunkie.


If Lawful must be,


Could someone tell me,


Which discipline teaches Drunk Monkey?



I'll agree with anything that has a rhyming scheme
My two copper.

The rules said Monks can’t be Chaotic.


The forums said, “Are you neurotic?


It’s poking big holes,


In 5E’s design goals.


Restrictions like that are despotic!”


 


Alignment restrictions are skunky.


My Chaotic Monk’s now a flunkie.


If Lawful must be,


Could someone tell me,


Which discipline teaches Drunk Monkey?



I'll agree with anything that has a rhyming scheme



Give me your money,

Because I'm greedy.

You know you should,

Because I'm good.

Money MouthMoney MouthMoney Mouth
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
The playtest says monks must be lawful.
The playtesters whine "but that's awful!"
I reply to them "fools,
monkish Orders have rules,
so their moral directions don't waffle!"
The playtest says monks must be lawful.
The playtesters whine "but that's awful!"
I reply to them "fools,
monkish Orders have rules,
so their moral directions don't waffle!"

Clerics have rules as well.
Thieves guilds too.
What makes one more lawful than the other
if it's rules that define your case.
 
Clerics have rules as well.
Thieves guilds too.
What makes one more lawful than the other
if it's rules that define your case.


D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Clerics have rules as well.
Thieves guilds too.
What makes one more lawful than the other
if it's rules that define your case.
 

Your argument fails on the grounds that it does not rhyme!

Good day to you, sir! You have wasted our time!

Priests serve Gods, some good, some foul,
Some the law, some insurrrction,
Thieves spread chaos, Monks choose order,
Seeking spiritual perfection.
Yeah, its one of those things WOTC just wanted to test out even though they likely knew the result.

Many gamers hate alignment restrictions even more then the dreaded Use Rope skill (what's interesting is that there were more complaints about use rope then there was about an even more obscure skill, drive)

Personally I don't care because alignments are always subject to debate and monks tend to be disciplined regardless so its unlikely that the subject would ever come up in my campaigns.
Twas a monk from Silverymoon
Had to honor requests or a boon
His alignment was Lawfull
To some that was awfull
They hope the rule changes soon
The problem is that the alignment system is trying to be personality, philosophy, actions, and cosmic energy all at the same time instead of having separate systems, or no system (personality and philosophy don't NEED systems), so it fails at all of them.
D&D Next is awful. It's hard to swallow.
Mearl's quest to unite a fan base,
Make it rest- he's a head case.
I want direction from the creators,
Not from Paizo 4th haters.

D&D Next will fail. Time will tell.
Hasbro will shelve D&D into hell.
Mearls ego and desire,
Fed 4th edition to the fire.
Profits will tanks; Paizos laughing all the way to the bank.




 
D&D Next is awful. It's hard to swallow.
Mearl's quest to unite a fan base,
Make it rest- he's a head case.
I want direction from the creators,
Not from Paizo 4th haters.

D&D Next will fail. Time will tell.
Hasbro will shelve D&D into hell.
Mearls ego and desire,
Fed 4th edition to the fire.
Profits will tanks; Paizos laughing all the way to the bank.


More pessimistic than Poe, you are.
Ever feel like people on these forums can't possibly understand how wrong they are? Feeling trolled? Don't get mad. Report Post.
D&D Next is awful. It's hard to swallow.... 



Clearly this game's not designed for you,
That's ok, no foot fits every shoe.

But the question begged, I fear
is "what, then, are you doing here?"

"what, then, are you doing here?"



I reply to them "fools,
monkish Orders have rules,
so their moral directions don't waffle!"

Monks choose order
Seeking spiritual perfection.

Your vision of Monk won't reflect
All possible PC or sect.
Follow 5E's spirit;
Just give us no limit,
And let's all play how we elect.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I propose that we
Discuss all things in such ways
Much more civil, yes?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
If it says "D&D," it's D&D.
If it improves the system, it's good for me. 
If it does both, then I'll gladly betroth
To all manner of strange novelty.
My Chaotic Monk’s now a flunkie.



3rd Ed Chaos Monks rock (erratic advance, anarchic self, etc).

If it says "D&D," it's D&D.



No, could be just another fantasy RPG.

Or just a game, like if they slap the label "D&D" on Boggle... 
Frustration rises from deep within me
From having to continue to see
That there seem to be those
Who resort, still, to prose
When this thread is about poetry.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

Your vision of Monk won't reflect
All possible PC or sect.
Follow 5E's spirit;
Just give us no limit,
And let's all play how we elect.



That sure sounds like a peachy condition,
but not this, no, not *ANY* edition,
Could achieve such a prize
It's a myth!  It's all lies!
We're at diametric opposition.

See, the new players can't just be guessin'
With which rules they're allowed to be messin'
Since their way they must find,
Monks are order aligned.
(Seems in that they could give you a lesson).

Frustration rises from deep within me
From having to continue to see
That there seem to be those
Who resort, still, to prose
When this thread is about poetry.

Why don't they at least
Try haikus? It's not like they
even need to rhyme.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
That sure sounds like a peachy condition,
but not this, no, not *ANY* edition,
Could achieve such a prize
It's a myth!  It's all lies!
We're at diametric opposition.

See, the new players can't just be guessin'
With which rules they're allowed to be messin'
Since their way they must find,
Monks are order aligned.
(Seems in that they could give you a lesson).

Attempting too hard to rhyme may
Have caused comprehension decay.
I've only one task.
I just want to ask,
"The **** are you trying to say?"

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
New gamers aren't dumb
Their monks will find their own paths
There is no right way.

It's not about you
Nor recreating your game
For all who might play.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Perhaps we should make it more of a riddle thing ...

"When is a Monk not a monk?"
When you're using the monk mechanics to represent a different character concept, because the fluff of being a navel-gazing martial artist is just that, fluff, and not inherent to the mechanics.  You can be a Monk (class) without being a monk (concept), and that's where the alignment restrictions become a pointless burden.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
That sure sounds like a peachy condition,
but not this, no, not *ANY* edition,
Could achieve such a prize
It's a myth!  It's all lies!
We're at diametric opposition.

See, the new players can't just be guessin'
With which rules they're allowed to be messin'
Since their way they must find,
Monks are order aligned.
(Seems in that they could give you a lesson).

Attempting too hard to rhyme may
Have caused comprehension decay.
I've only one task.
I just want to ask,
"The **** are you trying to say?"


He is saying that new players shouldn't have to guess
which rules can be changed and which to address,
and thusly Monks should be required to be lawful.
I think this makes no sense and is really quite awful.

The reasons in favor and those that are not
are really the same when you take a good look.
Each says that the DMs of the other opinion
can simply just change what is there in the book.

Everyone wants their way to be core
so they can say, "Look, I'm right!"
This argument is really a bore
and in the end is just trite.

Perhaps the best solution for all those involved,
is to allow all but the kitchen sink.
"Monks must be Lawful of course, or perhaps not,
speak to your DM and see what they think."
Perhaps the best solution for all those involved,
is to allow all but the kitchen sink.
"Monks must be Lawful of course, or perhaps not,
speak to your DM and see what they think."


Anti-alignment-
mechanics supporters we
Only ask for options.

Whereas prof insists
Monks must all only have codes
That agree with him.

But tables vary
My game is not his, and I
Reject his decrees.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
At least keep the embarrassing haikus within the proper structure of haiku, people.
 
Ah, what a high horse
You sit on and toss insults
Don't see you trying.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

Ha


 
This thread rocks.
My two copper.
Ah, what a high horse
You sit on and toss insults
Don't see you trying.


Also, some of us prefer limericks,
or just simple rhyming tricks.

And Mand12 I agree,
we should all be free.
Alignment options should be open to all,
not forced down our throats or used as a wall.
I thought that it would never come to pass
Alignment threads politely setting forth
Each one's opinions of alignment's worth
Without the rancor of past threads. Alas!
We trade alignment wars for poem wars.
The standard play'rs engage in pettiness
Betraying neverending readiness
To take a pleasant thread so far off-course
That no one would remember that it's these
-- Yes, chaos, evil, neutral, law and good --
(Unique in all the forums) where you could
Discuss aloud in rhyming harmonies.
As sure as there will be no die unrolled
There's no thread too sweet to be left untrolled.

iambic pentameter, yo!
(I prefer to think of the passages written in prose in this thread as just all being slam poetry.)

Feedback's simpler to solicit
When contentious rules are made explicit
Despite the confusion
If we start with inclusion
We can more responses elicit

On the 14th that's what Mearls tweeted
(Later in the day he'd repeat it)
No suprise no one knows
When important info's
In a place where some people won't read it
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.

Words rare heard, but often said
Though many ideas are conceived
Designers don't give us the best
They know those work; we recieve
Dubious rules to playtest
Enraging the hotter of heads

Whenever you propose an alignment restriction
I'll immediately think of a contradiction
A PC's class choices should not be defined
By how they keep their moral compass aligned
For a chaotic monk may have learnt her technique
From a mystical man on a tall mountain peak
Her demeanour might not be so ordered and calm
But her mastery of ki will still do you some harm
For sure, there are those who will say that you should
Under no circumstance let assassins be good
But what about Dexter? As he's only willing
To kill killers so that they can't keep going on killing
No matter the class, and what you think it should be
There's a counter-example that works perfectly.
A bard's disciplined practice of craft
Once made him chaotic - that's daft
A monk's discipline's lawful
Though his ethics be awful
Discipline's lawful for monk
Who serves chaos; that's bunk 
Let's move forward - and leave such things aft.

(Edited for ChrisCarlson)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Alignment poetry?

Oh noetry!
We get it. "Awful" and "lawful" doth rhyme
We've now heard it here, time after time
Lo' its getting a bit old
If I may be so bold
You may be guilty of poetry crime