hellfire warlock melee build?

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I've been looking around to help a friend out with his build and it sounds really fun. What his intentions are is to make not a op class but a fun class, but not a useless class. Unfortunately for him they're are some big players her. I'm player the "nuker" build we also have a psion rogue and warrior. But this doesn't spell the end for him because warlocks aren't pathetic and we don't fight eachother. So any ways to make a good hellfire warlock to keep him strong and fun? I've looked around but they're are billions of builds on warlocks
Oh side note its a level at first 32 bp and no house rules all books allowd and for 3.5
Its a level one at first with 32 bp*
#1 trick: any of the Trickster classes out of Complete Scoundrel and/or Bloodlines from UA will increase the hellfire blast ability. One level of Binder (pact with Naberius) allows you to circumvent the ability damage.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Man they sound soooo cool with melee now that I hear about they're powers. Maybe not op or broken but DAM teleporting and using a fire like sword and all that SO FLASHY I LOVE IT
The bloodlines seem like they aren't really worth it for the amount you'd have to spend on them. When you cango human and gain a extra feat and 4 extra skill points.
#1 trick: any of the Trickster classes out of Complete Scoundrel and/or Bloodlines from UA will increase the hellfire blast ability.

It's just the uncanny trickster that has advancement for any class feature, isn't it?
The bloodlines seem like they aren't really worth it for the amount you'd have to spend on them. When you cango human and gain a extra feat and 4 extra skill points.

Since they're added onto whatever race you already have, it's not like you have to miss out on the regular human benefits.  But what you really gain in this case (as draco indicated) is being able to count the bloodline levels when calculating any character ability based on class levels.

In this case, that allows you to count as having more than the usual limit of three class levels of hellfire warlock when calculating the power of a hellfire blast (which adds 2d6 damage per class level).

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Take a look on my topic, it can help you:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Legacy Champion from Weapons of Legacy and Uncanny Trickster from Complete Scoundrel both advance any class. RAW even PRC's beyond their normal cap (advancing expressed, at each level, or at every X level abilities), this is arguably not RAI.

The bloodline thing is from Unearthed Arcana, and yes, you can be a human with a Greater Vampire Bloodline and get all the goodies from both, you effectively lose a bit less than 3 levels worth of XP and can choose when you lose it. The loss of HP can be a real problem especially in early levels so do it cautiously, most of your other losses will be made up for by the bloodline abilities.

Since you need 12 ranks in Knowledge the Planes to even become a Hellfire Warlock look into a build that gets the first level of Uncanny Trickster and or Legacy Champion before you enter Hellfire Warlock, also grab that Binder level early as well. Tempest built something like this one time.

Binder 1/Warlock 6/Uncanny Trickster 1/Legacy Champion 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/+5 Legacy Champion/+2 Uncanny Trickster/+1 Warlock

He used Illumian for the improved CL which ups your damage. Sigils were Vaul and Krau.

This build needed a 14 Int and focused mostly on Dex after that, Cha and Con coming nect in priority, it dumped Str and Wis.

Feats included  Martial Study (for Leading the Attack), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Power Sigils, Goad, Martial Study (Defensive Rebuke), Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades)

Effectively this is an AOO tank build that uses a big bad eldritch glaive for damage, and Beguiling Influence along with the Diplomacy as a class skill thing to be a party Face as well.

Best of luck.
 
What woild be some feats to invest in?
Would*
Martial Study (for Leading the Attack), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Power Sigils, Goad, Martial Study (Defensive Rebuke), Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades)

Effectively this is an AOO tank build that uses a big bad eldritch glaive for damage, and Beguiling Influence along with the Diplomacy as a class skill thing to be a party Face as well.
 



In the Trickster/Champion Overdrive build the AOO tank loadout was used to provide close area combat control as well as more hits/turn with the gigantic 28d6 eldritch glaive.
In a campaign I played in the bbeg was a gestalted warlock using all the tricks mentioned here with 2 major bloodlines and the presteige classes, and the other half of the build was an archivist the dm needless to say was quite evil
Nub question, how does trickster and champion raise hellfire warlock?
What did he pick when he gained martial study?
The first question has already been answered in this thread; it's the same as bloodlines. The second question has also already been answered. (Here's a hint)
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Wouldn't this be better? the Shape Soulmeld feat and binding the Strongheart Vest, an ability that reduces all ability damage I take by one
Nub question, how does trickster and champion raise hellfire warlock?

To cover it again in brief (you can go back and read the details in other responses in this thread); they both can count for abilities based on class level, and the hellfire warlock's extra damage on a hellfire blast is +2d6 points per class level.

For example, three levels of uncanny trickster gives you two levels of class advancement (there's one "dead" level), so if you've got three levels of hellfire warlock as well, you can count as having five levels of hellfire warlock and deal an extra 10d6 points of damage with your hellfire blast, instead of 6d6 extra points.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Shinigami, as explained in another Hellfire thread within the last week, which was also yours, iirc, Strongheart Vest is considered supercheese, and its effectiveness is debated, but generally agreed to not work the way you want it to. Binding the Naberius vestige is perfectly legal, however.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Apologies are in order: that was a new question for you. I misremembered - it was Vincent Dragoch's thread. I'm sorry that I was short with you.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
So there is a martial feat called leading the attack?
*sigh*
Seriously, dood? It's spelled out for you in TWO of Andarious' posts. Martial Study is the feat; Leading the Attack is the name of the maneuver taken with the feat. Please try to keep up.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
The level thing does confuse me which is why I asked. Ublike my friend I don't understand mages to well and don't understand how all that raises it. For bloodlines lets say youre level 20 does that mean that the 20 levels of bloodlines gets added to spells or only the 3 that you had to spend exp for? Also I'm going major in efreeti since it's more fire oriented and fits a bit more. Is this a good choice
Sorry just a tad bit new I will try
Sorry just a tad bit new I will try
For bloodlines, you only get the "levels" you pay for. A major bloodline will end up giving you +3.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I get it now :-) so if I had 1 trickster and 6 legacy that'd be 7 bonus with the 3 bloodline making a huge 10 just from them
I get it now :-) so if I had 1 trickster and 6 legacy that'd be 7 bonus with the 3 bloodline making a huge 10 just from them

That's almost right, except that the very first level of uncanny trickster (and the 1st and 7th levels of the legacy champion) don't give any advancement for class features. 

Bloodlines don't have any "dead" levels like that, but they also don't give you any additional Hit Dice.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Bloodline levels only give you 3 things: the boosts in the tables, added max skill ranks, and added class-level based abilities. Check out my Hattori Hanzo build or Tempest's Ashardalon Reborn build for ideas on how to incorporate bloodline levels.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
What book are those maneuvers and srances in? Because I coukdnt find the maneuvers (could've over looked it) and why take trickster 1 than? Isn't there a better pick
Maneuvers & stances are all in ToB. The ones Tempest chose are Devoted Spirit & White Raven disciplines. I'm guessing the reason you take UT 1 is that there are fewer prereqs and/or that UT has class skills or something similar that helps with Legacy Champion prereqs.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Maneuvers & stances are all in ToB. The ones Tempest chose are Devoted Spirit & White Raven disciplines.


"ToB" is the Tome of Battle, Shinigami, if you're not up on our abbreviations.

I picked White Raven's Douse the Flames there not because the maneuver's useful at all (well, it is, just not for you) but rather because it gave Diplomacy as a class skill from level 1. You can use that with a binder's pact with Naberius (which you'll be taking to protect yourself as a hellfire warlock later anyway) and the warlock's Beguiling Influence invocation to become a pretty powerful public speaker and negotiator at a low level. You don't need to invest anything extra besides that in order to remain your party's spokesman even as you focus on your hellfire. And besides, the charismatic fiend is a staple of fiction (ever read Faust?)

The Devoted Spirit maneuvers are there for Thicket of Blades, a lynchpin of the "AoO Tank" style of play, which that particular glaivelock build uses in an unusual manner (normally, AoO tanks focus on getting AoOs in response to everything their opponents do, and spend those attacks to prevent their opponents from doing it. You just use those attacks as extra chances to smack with a nearly 30d6 glaive.) For more information on this style of play, I wrote an introduction to it here (click the spoiler block at the bottom). A good AoO tank is a fun and very useful way to play a melee warrior in 3.5, and it isn't entirely obvious to new players that such a character is even possible.

I'm guessing the reason you take UT 1 is that there are fewer prereqs and/or that UT has class skills or something similar that helps with Legacy Champion prereqs.


There's many reasons for this. It's not harder to qualify for, but it works best if you take UT first. Uncanny Trickster has all skills as class skills, and Legacy Champion's class skills consist of a small list of skills, plus any class skills from all of your other classes. Put 'em together and you get Factotum-grade skill lists, albeit with less Int synergy and fewer base skill points.

Also, taking Uncanny Trickster 1 and Legacy Champion 1 before you can qualify for your PrC (here, Hellfire, which requires 12 ranks in a specific skill - and Legacy Champion requires Character Level 10, so I think I botched the timing a bit here) allows you to enter your PrC right on schedule, and then continue to advance it afterwards without any delays (since you crossed those non-advancing levels on your way to the PrC). You finish Hellfire as early as possible, and then take UT 2, which advances Hellfire right away instead of having to wait a level while you take UT 1.

I openly admit that the build suggested there is subpar; it's just there as an example.

Finally, HappyShinigami, I would strongly suggest avoiding things like bloodlines or even hellfire warlock if you're this new to the game. Certain things require a degree of familiarity with the rules in order to work, or work well, and those are among them.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

There's many reasons for this. It's not harder to qualify for, but it works best if you take UT first. Uncanny Trickster has all skills as class skills, and Legacy Champion's class skills consist of a small list of skills, plus any class skills from all of your other classes. Put 'em together and you get Factotum-grade skill lists, albeit with less Int synergy and fewer base skill points.

It doesn't quite have all skills as class skills; it lacks Concentration, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge, Ride, Speak Language, Spellcraft, and Survival, in addition to any of the skills that aren't on the general list (like Autohypnosis).  The Uncanny Trickster has a good list, but not a complete one.

It's not really a case of needing the specific skills; the base warlock class gives you the class skills you need for the Hellfire Warlock, and the level in binder gives you some Knowledge (history) for the Legacy Champion.  It's certainly nice to have some extra skills available, but it's not an absolute requirement.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
It's not about needing the skills, it's about being able to expand the Legacy Champion list to be the same as the Uncanny Trickster list.
Ty for all the advice. I understood nost of what you saod before you saidbit temp but thank you for breaking it down :-) just wanted to make sure these were the best choices and why people thought they were so I can back them up if i ever had to explain why I did this. Isntead of saying I got it from a article I now know :-) I assumed ut was just for skills. And I do like diplomacy it fits with yk chars attitude
I will read you're article on AoO. I would switch but worlocks sounds extremely fun and so does this so I want to give it a try
Wow I didn't know there were so many feats for AoO I understood AoO but dam, with those feats you can really be a badass tank
Hey tempest, with that build youbdont have much health so how did you go about taking damage? I'm not completely sure I'll have a healer in my group.
As a warlock you have one of the most valuable skills in the game, Use Magic Device, you can get your hands on, and readily use all sorts of magical wands, scrolls and staves, and be the healer when not busy stabbing people to death with eldritch power.
Oh ya! I completely derped on that.
As for equipment and invocations go what should I get?