Copying the token copy of Heat Shimmer

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If you use Heat Shimmer to create a token copy of, say, Runeclaw Bear, and then populate or otherwise create a copy of that token, does that new copy have the haste and "At the beginning of the end step, exile this permanent." abilities? So what I'm asking is, are those abilities part of the copying effect or are they granted to the creature afterwards. Not sure on this.
because the removal is an ability given to the token, if you populate it, the copy will have it as well

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because the removal is an ability given to the token, if you populate it, the copy will have it as well


Only if it's part of the copy effect. If it's granted afterwards, it won't get copied to the new token. Since both abilities are listed in a seperate sentence, I'm not sure on them being part of the original copy effect.
in this case the trigger is part of the token and will get copied

compare the wording of Heat Shimmer to Seance

if you populate Seance tokens you get to keep them, but you have to sacrifice exile the populated Heat Shimmer token
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so what your asking is...

does 706.9a apply here to the second sentence or is it a separate effect?

706.9a Some copy effects cause the copy to gain an ability as part of the copying process. This ability becomes part of the copiable values for the copy, along with any other abilities that were copied.

I'll go with what MTGO does as the answer - testing... done.

MTGO treats it as a separate effect so only the token put on by Shimmer gets it, it's not copied to the populated token.



Notice the populated token doesn't have haste either

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Then I will have to disagree with MTGO, the haste and exile ability are a part of the copy effect.  Had a discussion about effects that use the words "has' and "gains" in them a few months back.  If an effect states that the token "has" haste (for example) then that is part of the copy effect and is applied in layer 1, a good example of this is Splinter Twin.  On the other hand if it states that the token "gains" haste that is not part of the copy effect and that is applied in layer 6, an example of that would be Mimic Vat.  Since in this example Heat Shimmer states that the token "has" haste and the ability that at the end of turn it's exiled that would be applied in layer 1 and would be copied by the populate.

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That doesn't prove anything though
Splinter Twin has the exact same issue.
Is it a modification to the copy effect or is it merely a separate continuous effect?
The rulings don't say either way.
112.10. Effects can add or remove abilities of objects. An effect that adds an ability will state that the object “gains” or “has” that ability. An effect that removes an ability will state that the object “loses” that ability. Effects that remove an ability remove all instances of it. If two or more effects add and remove the same ability, in general the most recent one prevails. (See rule 613, “Interaction of Continuous Effects.” )

There doesn't appear to be a special distiction between the usage of has or gains.
Compare Goblin Assault which uses with to set the characteristic of the token.

Even Splinter Twin itself disputes your assertion.
Enchanted creature has " : Put a token that's a copy of this creature onto the battlefield. That token has haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step."

 certainly, you wouldn't say that the ability granted by Splinter Twin to the creature that its attached to would be copied, right? (it uses has too)

Based on Goblin Assault, if the token created by Twin had haste as a copyable characteristic, the ability would/should be written:

Put a token with haste that's a copy of this creature onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

or alternatively,

Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of this creature except that it has haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

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can you please put the image in spoiler tags so the layout isn't ****ed up?

strange that MTGO handles it that way, it's counter to what I assumed
but I'll take it as an [O]-ruling until we get another one ;)
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I'd like an [O] answer, but I'm more inclined to see it as part of the copy effect than as an additional continuous effect.

I do think the "has"/"gains" matters. Splinter Twin's "has" is irrelevant; that's a static ability. For resolving spells/abilities, they almost always use "gains". The word "has" is only used when specifying characteristics of tokens. For example, the various Eldrazi Spawn generators (e.g. Awakening Zone) use it that way. The mana ability is an intrinsic part of the token; it's just in a separate sentence to make the text read better. I think the same would go for Heat Shimmer.

It may be worth pointing out Impromptu Raid, Puppeteer Clique, Through the Breach, and Treacherous Urge. Those were printed with "has" but were changed to "gains", since there it is a separate continuous effect that's granting the haste. That they're still using "has" on Heat Shimmer is telling (assuming it's intentional, of course).
Yes, both the haste and the "exile me" trigger are part of the copiable value (because of 706.9a). Populating a token made by Heat Shimmer means that the token copy will have haste and the "exile me" trigger.

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Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

Perhaps, someone should tell the programmers to fix Heat Shimmer in MTGO then.

Also a rule in the CompRules stating the difference would be nice or alternatively a consistent usage in Oracle.

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Token making cards that grant types/colors typically have "except" directly after the copy effect. Ability granting copy effects could easily be changed to match that wording. For example the first sentence of heat shimmer would be "Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of target creature except it has 'blah blah'".

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