Deathtouch / First Strike

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Just wondering, [C]Voracious Cobra[/C] has deathtouch and first strike so does that mean any creature blocking or blocked by Voracious Cobra will die on first strike damage resolution and then be unable to deal any damage to the Cobra (unless said creature also has first strike)? If so this would make Cobra practically invincible in battle unless met with another first strike creature.
Voracious Cobra does not have Deathtouch (I think there was a time period where it was erratad to have Deathtouch, but it has since been reverted)

let's go with Glissa, the Traitor
and yes, that is a very deadly combination that is very hard to defeat in combat

First/Double Strike, Indestructible or Protection would help against it
proud member of the 2011 community team
I'm not quite sure how Voracious Cobra's ability differs from deathtouch (wait, deathtouch works no matter how a creature deals damage, combat or otherwise, but the Cobra's effect only applies to combat damage.  Right?)  But was I correct in assuming the blocking/blocked creature would be destroyed before dealing damage to the Cobra?
I'm not quite sure how Voracious Cobra's ability differs from deathtouch (wait, deathtouch works no matter how a creature deals damage, combat or otherwise, but the Cobra's effect only applies to combat damage.  Right?)

Also, Deathtouch kills (almost) immediately on dealing the damage, while Cobra has a triggered ability, which must spend some time on the Stack.


But was I correct in assuming the blocking/blocked creature would be destroyed before dealing damage to the Cobra?

Yes.


It's not Logic, it's Magic!

Voracious Cobra only works off combat damage, and it is a trigger, while deathtouch happens as part of the damage and cannot be responded to

but yes, in regular combat without combattricks the result is the same, the other creature will be gone before it can deal damage back
proud member of the 2011 community team
It should be noted that with deathtouch, one damage is lethal for the purposes of damage assignment.  If the Voracious Cobra was blocked by two 2/2s, it could only kill the first one.  A deathtouch 2/x with first strike could kill both.

Cheers
Thanks!  I didn't even think about the trigger.  Got it.
It should be noted that with deathtouch, one damage is lethal for the purposes of damage assignment.  If the Voracious Cobra was blocked by two 2/2s, it could only kill the first one.  A deathtouch 2/x with first strike could kill both.

Cheers



Wait a minute.  You lost me again.  [C]Voracious Cobra[/C].  When Voracious Cobra deals combat damage to a creature destroy it.  If blocked by two creatures could it not assign one damage to each creature (as it's power is 2) and then destroy them both of first strike damage resolution?
correct, you need to assign "lethal damage" to each creature before you can move on to the next

with death touch lethal damage is defined as "at least 1", for every other creature "lethal damage" is "at least equal to toughness"
damage assignment doesn't take into account what actually happens to the damage, so Voracious Cobra still has to assign damage equal to toughness
proud member of the 2011 community team
Wait a minute.  You lost me again.  [C]Voracious Cobra[/C].  When Voracious Cobra deals combat damage to a creature destroy it.  If blocked by two creatures could it not assign one damage to each creature (as it's power is 2) and then destroy them both of first strike damage resolution?


Only if the first one in the damage assignment order has a toughness of 1 or is already getting almost lethal damage.
510.1c A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it assigns no combat damage. If exactly one creature is blocking it, it assigns all its combat damage to that creature. If two or more creatures are blocking it, it assigns its combat damage to those creatures according to the damage assignment order announced for it. This may allow the blocked creature to divide its combat damage. However, it can't assign combat damage to a creature that's blocking it unless, when combat damage assignments are complete, each creature that precedes that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. An amount of damage that's greater than a creature's lethal damage may be assigned to it.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). Vastwood Gorger can assign 3 damage to the Guardian and 2 damage to the Elves, 4 damage to the Guardian and 1 damage to the Elves, or 5 damage to the Guardian.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). During the declare blockers step, the defending player casts Giant Growth targeting Pride Guardian, which gives it +3/+3 until end of turn. Vastwood Gorger must assign its 5 damage to the Guardian.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). During the declare blockers step, the defending player casts Mending Hands targeting Pride Guardian, which prevents the next 4 damage that would be dealt to it. Vastwood Gorger can assign 3 damage to the Guardian and 2 damage to the Elves, 4 damage to the Guardian and 1 damage to the Elves, or 5 damage to the Guardian.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Enormous Baloth (a 7/7 creature) is Trained Armodon (a 3/3 creature) that already has 2 damage marked on it, then Foriysian Brigade (a 2/4 creature that can block an additional creature), then Silverback Ape (a 5/5 creature). The damage assignment order of an attacking Durkwood Boars (a 4/4 creature) is the same Foriysian Brigade, then Goblin Piker (a 2/1 creature). Among other possibilities, the active player may have the Baloth assign 1 damage to the Armodon, 1 damage to the Brigade, and 5 damage to the Ape, and have the Boars assign 3 damage to the Brigade and 1 damage to the Piker.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
Ok.  I never realized it was a rule that you had to assign lethal damage to one creature before moving on to the next with multiple blockers.  Makes sense in most cases, but it would have been nice to do otherwise with Voracious Cobra.  Oh well, not as good as Deathtouch / First Strike, but the next best thing I guess.
Ok.  I never realized it was a rule that you had to assign lethal damage to one creature before moving on to the next with multiple blockers.  Makes sense in most cases, but it would have been nice to do otherwise with Voracious Cobra.  Oh well, not as good as Deathtouch / First Strike, but the next best thing I guess.


You were actually able to do that before M10 (So it worked like that when the cobra was printed), but that elegance was a casualty of combat damage no longer ussing the stack.
Thanks to Long_Con for the avatar.
River Guide
56756068 wrote:
58147568 wrote:
121816979 wrote:
56819178 wrote:
147112461 wrote:
Hi everyone,I have two questions. 1. If my opponent already controlled a planewalker , then he cast avacyn,angle of hope ,and resolved on battlefield.Now his planewalker in indestructible right?
[c]Avacyn, Angel of Hope[/c] -> Avacyn, Angel of Hope
No need to be so obtuse, maybe he's just trying to complement her. That's not too radical of a concept, I mean she is pretty acute, right?.
This right here should be a bannable offense :p
No, not an outright banning, that's too easy. He should be punished ... ... by degrees.