Ghave - Subtract and Add

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Welcome, one and all!

I'm about ready to put the finishing touches on my Ghave, Guru of Spores deck, but have a large number of cards that I'm considering adding, with very few I'd like to get rid of. The focus of this deck is synergy with Ghave, making lots of tokens, and giving my creatures lots of resilience through cards like Asceticism. Also, I try to avoid infinite combos unless many (4-5+) cards are needed to make it work. Would you all be kind enough to suggest which cards I should drop, which I should add, and why? Without further ado, we're off!

Commander (1):

Ghave, Guru of Spores

Creatures (28):

Eternal Witness - A great green EDH staple.  
Scavenging Ooze - Wonderful graveyard hate.
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Land ramp!
Yavimaya Elder - Land ramp, now with card draw!
Hornet Queen - Makes many deadly tokens, which basically tell my opponents to stay away. 
Woodfall Primus - Deadly, especially with Ghave. My playgroup would have killed me long ago if I didn't use this guy as judiciously as I do. 
Mycoloth - More Tokens! It's just to bad that everyone wants to kill him the moment he enters battlefield...
Fertilid - More Land ramp, and repeatable when combined with Ghave.
Utopia Mycon - Helps make me lots of mana to fuel crazy Ghave things.
Seedguide Ash - More Land ramp, this time with the power to get Murmuring Bosk!
Verdant Force - Steady token producer. 
Spike Weaver - My Preciousss...This little fella has saved my behind more times than most other cards I own, since repeatable Fog, especially when combined with Ghave for even more repeats, is quite good. 
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - Overrun, now reusable and with the power to threaten your opponents lands should they try to do a creature wipe!
Champion of Lambholt - Great synergy with Ghave, and helps my little guys get through the enemies defensive line. 
Forgotten Ancient - COUNTERS! This guy makes 'em. Lots of 'em. Good synergy with Ghave.
Oracle of Mul Daya - Land ramp with a twist.
Avenger of Zendikar - Loves all my land ramp, but always wants EVEN MORE LANDS! Can beat face even without Ghave. 
Rampaging Baloths - Makes me chunky tokens, and considering the amount of land ramp I have, he's pretty good. 
Dauntless Escort - Protects all my lovely creatures from those mean, mean board wipes. 
Sigil Captain - Great synergy with Ghave, and with many of my token producers besides him. 
Selesnya Guildmage - Great when I have lots of mana and nothing to spend it on (which does happen a good deal).
Mentor of the Meek - Card draw, and absolutely amazing when combined with Ghave. 
Twilight Drover - Likes token producing, and likes Ghave too. 
Twilight Shepherd - This nice lady protects my various permanents quite well, and can be pumped by Ghave to fly over my enemies to wreak havoc.
Geralf's Messenger - Great synergy with Ghave.
Necroplasm - Powerful creature destruction, and really good with Ghave. 
Falkenrath Noble - Anti-board wipe card, also works nicely with Ghave.
Butcher of Malakir - Great creature destruction, wondeful with Ghave. 

Planewalkers (1):

Garruk Wildspeaker - Makes my lands give me even more mana, or gets me more tokens, or acts as another Overrun. Very nice. 

Enchantments (10):

Asceticism - Creature protection.
Perilous Forays - More Land ramp, and synergistic with Ghave. 
Awakening Zone - More mana, and more tokens for sacrificing if need be. 
Parallel Lives - Staple in any token deck. 
Aura Shards - Powerful destruction, especially with Ghave. 
Sterling Grove - Protects my enchantments, or find me one I really need. 
Cathars' Crusade - Just insane with so many cards in this deck. 
Grave Pact - Butcher of Malakir without those fancy legs. 
Phyrexian Arena - Card draw, and well priced at that. 
Attrition - Creature spot removal, good with Ghave. 

Instants (4):

Beast Within - Very flexible spot removal. 
Fresh Meat - Anti-board wipe card. 
Eladamri's Call - Critter Tutor. 
Angel's Grace - I CANNOT LOOOSSEE!!!

Sorceries (13):

Creeping Renaissance - Nice recursion, especially with all the permanents I have. 
Cultivate - Land ramp, pretty standard. 
Kodama's Reach - Same as above. 
Hymn of Rebirth - Good any-graveyard recursion. Beacon of Unrest may be slightly better, but I'm a bit of a sucker for the fact that the flavor text for Hymn is a Ray Bradbury quote, and he's my favorite author >_> <_<. br="">Genesis Wave - What's that? You wiped my entire board but I still have a bunch of lands left and only one card? I should give up? I think not...
Harmonize - Card draw, surprisingly in green. 
Recollect - Graveyard recursion. 
Hour of Reckoning - Good board wiper for a token deck. 
Storm Herd - Yes, I want 40 flying pegasi to destroy my foes. 
Martial Coup - Good board wiper in a token deck. 
Increasing Devotion - More tokens, and it comes back for a second punch just in case you thought the first was too light. 
Increasing Ambition - Double (or should I say triple?) tutor. 
Diabolic Tutor - Standard tutor. 

Artifacts (6):

Skullclamp - Card draw like crazy. 
Darksteel Ingot - More mana. 
Sol Ring - More mana, and a staple card.
Eldrazi Monument - Great in any token deck.
Cauldron of Souls - Protects my creatures, and good with Ghave.
Chromatic Lantern - Have yet to try this guy, but I've heard he's destined to be a staple in multi-colored EDH decks. 

Lands (37):

9 Forest
6 Plains
7 Swamp
Orzhov Basilica
Golgari Rot Farm
Selesnya Sanctuary
Murmuring Bosk
Temple of the False God
Ghost Quarter
Command Tower
Vault of the Archangel
Mosswort Bridge
Reliquary Tower
Vivid Grove
Vivid Meadow
Vivid Marsh
Gavony Township
Evolving Wilds





Cards I'm Considering:

Seedborn Muse - This with Ghave is just...just...almost too cruel. 
Juniper Order Ranger - Great with Ghave and any other token producers.
Puppeteer Clique - Great with Ghave. 
Rhys the Redeemed - Powerful token producer. 
Deathrender - Useful for basically "cheating" cards into play. 
Glare of Subdual - Offers me the power to control my opponents a bit, which is unusual for a deck without blue, but is also intriguing. 
Sadistic Hypnotist - Alternate sacrifice outlet that allows me to destroy my opponent's hands with enough tokens in play. Too bad about it being a sorcery, though without that little clause this guy would be extremely overpowered. 
Black Market - Death = mana? Ghave likes this one. 
Dark Impostor - Interesting spot removal for creatures, and can also be quite powerful on it's own. 
Mana Reflection - MORE MANA! 
Corpsejack Menace - Synergizes well with Ghave.
Thelonite Hermit - Interesting token producer, and synergizes well with Ghave. 
Verdeloth the Ancient - Same as above. 
Mikaeus, the Lunarch - Makes more counters for all my creatures, works nicely with Ghave.
Nomads' Assembly - Double, double, toil and trouble...Great token producer (once I have a decent amount of them out already)
Beastmaster Ascension - Strong boost for my critters, especially since I make so many of them. 
Privileged Position - More permanent protection, and absolutely evil with Sterling Grove
Mimic Vat - Staple EDH card, works well with a variety of different creatures. 
Increasing Savagery - More counters!
Mirari's Wake - More Mana AND More Damage? WOWZA! 
Shield of the Oversoul - Helps make sure that Ghave isn't disturbed from his important task of insuring I win. 
Blade of the Bloodchief - Synergizes really well with Ghave, and secretly with the vampires in my deck. 
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Offers me the possibility of pumping him up to kill my enemies in case my token swarms are unable to. 

Doubling Season is amazing, but a bit out of my price range right now.

Also, any tips about cards/types of cards I should have more of/etc, would be appreciated. 

Thanks for reading!

~Mr. Mirage
Here's what I don't like in your list right now:

Seedguide Ash:  Really slow ramp.
Angel's Grace:  Just a bad card.
Diabolic Tutor:  With all your ramp, I'd rather have Diabolic Revelation
Vivid lands:  I just hate these lands.  Use the M13 style lands instead.

I think you could stand to cut out a bit of ramp too.  You might have a bit too much.

From your "consideration" list:

Corpsejack Menace:  PLAY IT.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter:  If you add him (and I really like him), add Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.  It's an infinite combo that just keeps things under control

There is a very huge lack of removal in this deck.  You need ways to actually kill creatures, enchantments and artifacts.  I counted a total of 2 actual creature removal (Beast Within, Attrition), plus two more pieces of forced sacrifice.  There are only two ways to blow up artifacts/enchantments (Aura Shards, Beast Within).  There's simply not enough ways to deal with your opponent's nasty things.  I'd at least add Oblivion Ring, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares and 1-2 Naturalize effect.
Thanks for the suggestions, MadAdmiral!

Here are the changes I've decided on:

Removed:

Fresh Meat - Generally not very useful, mainly because every time I want to save it in case of a board wipe, I've just used all/most of my mana to build a token army. 
Darksteel Ingot - More mana is nice, but this guy never seems to make a big impact.
Forest - With all my Land ramp, I thought I could cut out one more land.
Twilight Shepherd - Although I lover her to death, she just isn't that great in this deck. 
Hymn of Rebirth - Just felt a bit uneccessary. I think I might be a bit too low on GY recursion now, however. 
Hornet Queen - While I like flying death, I thought other cards might be more deserving of this one's spot. 
Seedguide Ash - As you said, rather slow land ramp, and a bit excessive as well. I still like him, however, and am keeping him on a backburner for now. 
Selesnya Guildmage - Having a card to dump your extra mana into is nice, but Ghave serves that purpose at least 95% of the time. 
Angel's Grace - Although I love this card in theory, after going over it again, I realized that most of the time it would end up like Fresh Meat
Rampaging Baloths - I've never really liked the chunkier tokens, since I like being able to sac my tokens at a moments notice, and with less Land ramp this guy will be less useful as well. 
Oracle of Mul Daya - Felt excessive, like Seedguide Ash, especially since 66% of the time I only get to play her when I don't really need her. 

Added:

Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Being pumpable is a nice alt-win condition, as well as being an alternate sacrifice outlet and form of creature removal, make for a strong combination. 
Blade of the Bloodchief - Works wonders with Ghave, and also well on my few vampires. 
Archon of Justice - Part removal, part rattle-snake. 
Mortify - More removal. 
Putrefy - More removal.
Nullmage Shepherd - More removal, with this one having the delight of being repeatable. 
Seedborn Muse - Oh, the madness we'll make...
Corpsejack Menace Oh, the counters we'll make...
Dark Impostor - More removal, both repeatable and with an interesting/powerful side effect. 
Puppeteer Clique - Amazing with Ghave. 
Glare of Subdual - Gives me greater control of my opponents, and is absoultely evil with Seedborn Muse

The reason I didn't have much removal was because I generally don't feel like I need it, which was really just a convenient lie so that I can embrace other cards that interest me more. I'm glad that I kind of snapped out of that. 

Also, the reason I'm avoiding Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is because he's so explicitly broken with Ghave. Sure, there may be some other crazy cards in my deck, but nothing (to my knowledge) that is quite that broken. 

Little question: With my lessened land ramp, is it still better for me to replace Diabolic Tutor with Diabolic Revelation

Once again, thanks for your help. Please tell me what you think of my revisions. 

~Mr. Mirage
Not of this World is extremely fun here.  No one expects counterspells from GWB.
I think the changes are a lot better.  I'd probably try to find room for leaving in Fresh Meat, as countering sweepers is really good.

I really think you're giving Mikaeus a bad rap.  Sure, the guy can be crazy in the deck, but that's the point of EDH.  To make it really broken, you either need a ton of mana to remove all the counters (or continually kill off Ghave, netting 6 tokens in the process) or another specific card.  As long as you don't intentionally try to abuse him, it's just fine.

I'm personally a huge fan of Revelation.  Tutoring for a full grip of cards is always sweet.  I would say that if your games tend to go on for a long time, Revelations is almost alwasy going to be better.  If the games end fairly early, then it's not as powerful.

Liquimetal Coating would be great with Aura Shards.

139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt

Liquimetal Coating would be great with Aura Shards.




As is Mycosynth Lattice - I run both in my artifact based Ghave deck.  Making Ghave an artifact creature is great when you run Modular creatues.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing an infinite combo here.  Am I missing something?

Rules Advisor

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing an infinite combo here.  Am I missing something?



You can sacrifice Vish Kal to himself.  He comes back into play with a +1/+1 counter (undying).  You remove the +1/+1 counter to give target creature -1-1 ueot.  Sacrifice Vish Kal to himself again, repeat infinitely.
That's what I was missing.  Thanks.  That's great.

Rules Advisor

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