Promo unlock thread discussion - Sky and Scale

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This is a thread for discussion related to the promo unolck thread.

Use this thread to explain your card nominations or to voice your opinion on other cards that have been nominated for Sky and Scale.

My list will probably closely resemble the following. I think the deck either needs more card draw or more ramp to get the lands dropping consistently to enable a solid late-game strategy (and I really want there to be a solid late-game strategy), so I've worked from this, but I've also included some aggro options.

edric, spymaster of trest -- This card would fit perfectly, and I think deserves an encor. It can provide more early card draw which the deck needs to help keep the land-drops coming and to reach the late game. Would work in either control or aggro builds (although probably better in aggro). Masses of synergy with jhessian stalker and the buffs like groundswell (making opponent make tough choices; let you draw a card or chump with a potentially valuable creature).


nulltread gargantuan (he is a beast, indeed) - great on it's own, but has synergy with coiling oracles and other cards, as well as the card draw theme. Again, works in control or aggro builds.


snakeform - Great card, would like be able to remove some of the claustrophobias from the deck, and this would make an exceptional replacement. 


murkfiend liege - great card obviously. An extra copy would just give the deck a boost to consistency. Would also make the token sub-theme more enticing. -- great card, but not a key card. I think  1-of is enough. There is already enough at the 5-drop slot to not need something else, so I've removed this from my choices to make room for bot vodslime and invert the skies -- two cards that I think this deck desperately needs, and what I think will make the deck far more fun to play.


sturdy hatchling - a cheap fatty that this deck needs; would be a great card addition whether you're running control or aggro. will be 6/6 very quickly, and with hexproof.

shorecrasher mimic - a nice aggro option.

leafdrake roost - An option more for the slower builds. Great synergy with all the reactive spells (flash/instant); leave lands open and to worry your opponent, then if it's still open at the end-step you can make a creature. It also gels with the semi-token theme going on with fable, slime, and aether mutation.

and finally some ramp because I wat to be able to run 2x simic skyswallower in 1v1 as well as be able to reliably hit my 5- and 6-drops -- khalni heart expedition and harrow. These make a significant impact on land availability and have synergy with groundswell, and harrow helps even up the land ratio if you're being flooded with a single colour.
EDIT: actually, now that I think about it, khalni heart expedition would mostly be too slow; so I'll probably choose kodama's reach (because we alread have a cultivate in the game)

EDIT: After playing more with the deck I feel like it would be a lot more fun if the ramp was more consistent, which I think will require an additional ramp spell to the one's I already mentioned. Perhaps explore -- card draw and ramp fits the theme I'm going for well; or sakura-tribe elder -- synergy with groundswell, and it has flexibility with when to fetch the land, being avalable to chump in the meantime. Crap, now what am I going to repace for this?? It's got to be either shorecrasher mimic or snakeform...


***



EDIT: AND ONE OF: After playing the deck a bit more today I really think it needs both these cards now, so I think I'll remove the murkfiend liege to accomodate an extra spot.


voidslime - an extra counter spell to accompany the snake; with two counter spells it may actually make the opponent stop and think before playing a spell when you have land open, making a control route feel more like it should. I like how it can also counter activated abilities, as there are a lot of them currently in DOTP.

invert the skies -- Aside from the funny artwork, this would be a nice finishing piece. On many occassions with this deck I've built up a board full of creatures, but haven't been able to attack with them; this card would be perfect in those situations.


 
PS I can't believe some of these cards weren't included in the first place as they fit the flavour so well, and at the same time are very interesting.

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My promo card list is.

Cytoshape
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Pygmy Hippo
Spitting Image
Voidslime
Jungle Barrier
Nulltread Gargantuan
Favor of the Overbeing
Slippery Bogle
Temporal Spring



I really like pygmy hippo. I read it wrong when I looked at it when deciding my list. It could be a bit unreliable though.

Not sure why you'd want slippery bogle.
lol, I think edric's already a winner :P
I put slippery bogle because back when i played paper magic i ran slippery bogle and favor of the overbeing, on turn 2 i had a 3/3 vigilant, flying, hexproof swinging in. made a special place in my heart. it would only be good if there are cards like favor of the overbeing or something like it to pump it up.
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Edric, Spymaster of Trest - I can't see him not being in the list. Too perfect.

Murkfiend Liege - He isn't too broken like the version. Another one of these is just what this deck needs.

Favor of the Overbeing - This card looks fun and goes great with Jhessian Infiltrator.

Leafdrake Roost - this looks like fun

Jungle Barrier - Really liked this card in ToE, too bad the deck was terrible. Card draw and some defense for more late-game builds.

Sturdy Hatchling - Love the shroud ability. Like even more that it's only on when you want so you can boost it.

The rest of the list will have to be singles of ramp since we can only add singletons. Ramp is badly needed though:

Explore

Cultivate

Harrow

Oracle of Mul Daya - Not sure if she comes early enough but I like her better here than SS.
Brainstorm
Murkfiend Liege
Tradewind Rider (Opposition)
Sage of Fables
Glen Elendra Archmage
Oracle of Mul Daya

would be just a few cards I'd like to see.


Glen Elendra Archmage - The current counter options we have are bugged so she would be excellent here. Plus she would interact with the next card:

Sage of Fables - I just looked through the list to see how many wizards were in the deck and there are more than I thought. Both selkies, the sower and Momir Vig. Plus she interacts well with the quest and the Lorescale Coatl.

This got me looking around for other wizards that would go well and while I didn't find any that jumped out I did find Simic Guildmage. This probably should have been an obvious one but until the cards you mentioned, there probably wouldn't have been that much use for him. But now there would be more counters out there for combat tricks and Favor of the Overbeing (if added) could be fun to move around the board during combat plus you could "upgrade" Claustrophobia to bigger threats.

I like the idea of somthing like Brainstorm but I would rather have Preordain or Serum Visions though any of these would work.

Now I'm thinking about +1/+1 counters and I want some graft creatures in here. Plaxcaster Frogling would be a lot of fun. Vigean Hydropon becomes a card draw engine with Sage of Fables. Cytoplast Manipulator would add more mind control options. They probably wouldn't add a new mechanic though, but still fun to think about.
Rites of Flourishing
-> more lands/card draw

Words of Wind
-> a way to use the all draw

Seal of Removal
-> combat-tricks

Harrow
-> land-ramp, obvious with the decks aim

 Exploration
-> more way to get lands out

Experiment Kraj
-> could be to powerful against decks like black; but then we got Bribery/Obliterator

Mass Polymorph
-> way to utilize the tokens

 Brainstorm
-> 1 mana spells the deck is lacking; can get lands

Kami of the Crescent Moon

Absurdity, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

 

1x Cytoshape (more fun utility)
1x Mystic Snake (needs more)
1x Temporal Spring (more anyting removal)
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest (obv)
1x Harrow (a bit of ramp)
1x Archivist (avec Murkfiend Liege)
1x Snakeform (love Snakeform)
1x Murkfiend Liege (one isn't enough)
1x Turn to Frog/Ovinize (need more spells that turn things into useless things)
1x Ertai, Wizard Adept (more Countering)

Honourable mentions:
1x Serendib Efreet
1x Erhnam Djinn

Love those cards.
Guys, no mana pool means no Pygmy Hippo. Why are you even thinking about it? :v

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Brainstorm
Murkfiend Liege
Tradewind Rider (Opposition)
Sage of Fables
Glen Elendra Archmage
Oracle of Mul Daya

would be just a few cards I'd like to see.


Glen Elendra Archmage - The current counter options we have are bugged so she would be excellent here. Plus she would interact with the next card:

Sage of Fables - I just looked through the list to see how many wizards were in the deck and there are more than I thought. Both selkies, the sower and Momir Vig. Plus she interacts well with the quest and the Lorescale Coatl.

This got me looking around for other wizards that would go well and while I didn't find any that jumped out I did find Simic Guildmage. This probably should have been an obvious one but until the cards you mentioned, there probably wouldn't have been that much use for him. But now there would be more counters out there for combat tricks and Favor of the Overbeing (if added) could be fun to move around the board during combat plus you could "upgrade" Claustrophobia to bigger threats.

I like the idea of somthing like Brainstorm but I would rather have Preordain or Serum Visions though any of these would work.

Now I'm thinking about +1/+1 counters and I want some graft creatures in here. Plaxcaster Frogling would be a lot of fun. Vigean Hydropon becomes a card draw engine with Sage of Fables. Cytoplast Manipulator would add more mind control options. They probably wouldn't add a new mechanic though, but still fun to think about.



I'm liking those ideas. I especially like how the simic mage becomes useful in so many ways, and makes claustrophobia so much more effective! However, I think you'd need a lot of these cards to be in multiples (especially the simic mage) to make this theme work, so I'd probably avoid making my promo choices based on these ideas -- although I would LOVE if there was a simic deck based off these ideas in 2014.
I went ahead and updated my list (don't want to post it twice), I added 
1 x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 x Journey of Discovery

That a long with and 1 x Oracle of Mul Daya should be enough ramp I think.
Decent ideas.  So long as there are some ramp cards in this hypothetical promo boost, I'm all for it.

Regarding listing these hopes and dreams out, let's make more sense.

Instead of using an illogical format of 1 x cardname, let's do a list format, like this:

1. cardname
...
10. cardname

This way, there's no confusion as to what the numbers are, and no one is typing out "1 x" for no clear reason.  

well, my choices have changed slightly after seeing some of the discussion on this thread. atm the cards i think will definitely make my list are:


but I can't make up my mind over a couple of te other cards -- i'm looking at 2 ramp spells and 1 other.


For the ramp, I need to decide between explore, sakura-tribe elder, and oracle of mul daya. I really like explore -- it fits the deck's themes perfectly and it's a 2-drop, which the deck could have more of, but it loses it's effectiveness if you draw it late (although perhaps not if there's enough card draw). I like sakura-trbe elder because it provides an early defensive body (a bit like coiling oracle), and it *guarantees* ramp, I'm not sure there are any reasons I don't like it, except that it doesn't feel like it fits the theme as well as the other cards. The oacle is good too, but I'm concered that it may come into play too late, although the deck does need more in the 4 CMC slot. The other problem with the oracle though is that it may never provide ramp if it's remove, but I guess the massive ramp and card advantage that it would provide if it survives more than balances out.


For the other spell I'm thinking either snakeform/turn to frog (I think I prefer snkeform over turn to frog, because of it's split mana cost and card draw ability), shorecrasher mimic, or murkfiend liege.

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true">For the other spell I'm thinking either snakeform/turn to frog (I think I prefer snkeform over turn to frog, because of it's split mana cost and card draw ability), shorecrasher mimic, or murkfiend liege.


I think the deck needs a second Murkfiend Liege personally. It's only there to make stuff bigger since the deck doens't do anything to take advantage of it's other abillity (beyond pseudo-vigilance).

And yeah, Snakeform fits better than Turn to Frog. I thought it would be cool to have Snakeform, Turn to Frog, Omnibian, Pongify and Ovinize all in the same deck. :P

Edit: Oh yeah, I was also thinking of Serendib Sorcerer.
I think people would appreciate that one more than Omnibian.
Sakura-Tribe Elder is a Snake, so it at least fits the theme of the deck, if not that of the Simic guild.  Add yeah, he's good for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  Early on, he can block and still ramp, which makes him great against many of the decks in the field.  Worst-case, he's a Rampant Growth.
Sakura-Tribe Elder is a Snake, so it at least fits the theme of the deck, if not that of the Simic guild.  Add yeah, he's good for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  Early on, he can block and still ramp, which makes him great against many of the decks in the field.  Worst-case, he's a Rampant Growth.



yeah, you're right about he snake theme -- I didn't even notice he was a snake. Thanks for making my decision harder (he was what I was most likely going to drop)!! :P

Guys, no mana pool means no Pygmy Hippo. Why are you even thinking about it? :v



I'm sure there's a way they could implement it (e.g. tap the opponent lands when the decision is made, then in the upkeep of your next turn create colorless land tokens on your side equal to the number of opponent lands that were tapped that have "at the end of turn, sacrifice this token"), but yeah, not likely.
I want to second the request for an additional Murkfiend Liege and for a good reason. Earlier I was working on my list for promotional cards I would like to see and I noticed that while many offered additional utility there was a lack in direct competitive potential being added to the deck. Edric would fit very nicely with this deck, but unlike Ancient Wilds this deck doesn't have as many threatening creatures to draw into. The same could be said about Rites of Flourishing which would be my preferred choice for a ramp card as I don't think Explore does enough when there's only one copy. If a second Liege is added then I think Invert the Skies would probably be overkill. I think I'm more in favor of a second Liege along with Shielding Plax for protection.

For me it's been difficult for me to distinguish between cards I want Wizards to include and cards I think they realistically might include. Something I noticed was that a lot of the decks have at least five promotional cards that are additional copies of cards already present in the deck. (I counted eight additional copies for Aura Servants.) So taking that into consideration I think that asking for ten completely brand new cards not present in the deck already would be an unrealistic request. For cards already present in Sky and Scale I mostly feel pretty indifferent about them and wouldn't care that much if one gets added over another, but I have to put Murkfiend Liege at the top of my request list since it would be the perfect card to increase the deck's competitiveness.

So with that said I would say that my list currently includes Murkfiend Liege, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Shielding Plax, and Rites of Flourishing. Almost didn't even include that last one as I consider it the least likely of the four to be included. They seem to omit land ramp for card draw in this deck, but Rite also offers card draw so perhaps it has a chance. Actually Coiling Oracle does offer ramp capabilty so it isn't completely left out.

You know, despite its popularity I'm actually starting to reconsider requesting Edric, Spymaster of Trest because of how it would work in multiplayer. It might be considered too powerful for Two-Headed Giants as I can't think of any other cards that grant as much power to your partner as Edric would. Not to mention that during Free For All or Planechase essentially every player would draw cards whenever they deal damage to anyone but you. I can understand why it hasn't been included when you take everything into consideration.
You know, despite its popularity I'm actually starting to reconsider requesting Edric, Spymaster of Trest because of how it would work in multiplayer. It might be considered too powerful for Two-Headed Giants as I can't think of any other cards that grant as much power to your partner as Edric would. Not to mention that during Free For All or Planechase essentially every player would draw cards whenever they deal damage to anyone but you. I can understand why it hasn't been included when you take everything into consideration.



Those don't sound like good reasons to me. In 2HG there's also more chanc he'll be removed, and he's still only a 1-of -- you're not going to see him every game! In planechase, he sounds like more of a disadvantage than advantage, so I dont see where the problem lies there -- if you don't want him in your planechase build because of it, then take him out.

So with that said I would say that my list currently includes Murkfiend Liege, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Shielding Plax, and Rites of Flourishing. Almost didn't even include that last one as I consider it the least likely of the four to be included. They seem to omit land ramp for card draw in this deck, but Rite also offers card draw so perhaps it has a chance. Actually Coiling Oracle does offer ramp capabilty so it isn't completely left out.



I'm not a fan of rites of flourishing, as it ramps your opponent as well. I think there are a lot of decks that can take advantage of that more than SaS; e.g. Crosswinds, SS, MS, GG would go crazy, even DP, and there's more but I hope you get my point. This deck's mana curve maxes out at only 7 (which isn't high at all), so massive ramp isn't necessary -- you're not ramping up to massive bombs -- it just needs to be able to consistently hit one or two ramp spells to get the edge over the opponent and start hitting it's 5-7-drops earlier (and at the same time permit running all of the good 5-7-drops). 2-3 extra ramp spells with the coiling oracles that are already available and all the available card draw (and potentially more in the promo), should ensure that you're hitting at least that 1-2 ramp spells in a game; without the need for something radical like rites of flourishing
It actually goes up to 8, but yeah I see your point. I'm just trying to be realistic since I don't expect them to add more than one ramp card if any at all. I would prefer to have an Oracle of Mul Daya over Rites of Flourishing, but they also seem to avoid having cards appear in more than one deck so I hardly even looked at as a possibility, but then again they did give Grinning Malice a Massacre Wurm so perhaps it wouldn't be an unreasonable request. At the very least if it's going to be one ramp/fetch card I would like it to be something that can be used more than once.
but unlike Ancient Wilds this deck doesn't have as many threatening creatures to draw into.


so perhaps add some. I'm pretty sure that 2x simic sky swallower + 3x fable of wolf and owl are more than enough though, if you're hitting them at turns 4-6.



If a second Liege is added then I think Invert the Skies would probably be overkill. I think I'm more in favor of a second Liege along with Shielding Plax for protection.



So why not just add an interesting card instead of a fairly non-interactive and boring card? And while I think shielding plax is a nice card and it doe fit the deck quite well, it's more non-interactivity, which isn't terribly fun to play with or against. At least with the sturdy hatchling that I suggested, you need to leave mana open to use it's ability, and it has the potential to catch people out.

It's a decent point that having a second liege may make invert the skies OP, but having two still doesn't guarantee seeing even one each game, and it's still vulnerable to removal (not so much if you include the plax), so I still don't think having two wouldn't make invert the skies OP. As it is, invert the skies would probably be winning games on it's own anyway, without a liege, if there's been a fable out for a couple of turns; having a liege out at the same time would just be win-more, so not a problem. Besides, invert the skies is still only a 1-of.
It actually goes up to 8, but yeah I see your point. I'm just trying to be realistic since I don't expect them to add more than one ramp card if any at all. I would prefer to have an Oracle of Mul Daya over Rites of Flourishing, but they also seem to avoid having cards appear in more than one deck so I hardly even looked at as a possibility, but then again they did give Grinning Malice a Massacre Wurm so perhaps it wouldn't be an unreasonable request. At the very least if it's going to be one ramp/fetch card I would like it to be something that can be used more than once.



I think their limit might be more like appearing in no more than two decks, as there are many other cards that appear in two decks -- ant queen, indrik stomphowler, grave titan, mind control, time warp, just to name a few.
Well as I mentioned they seem inclined to make at least half of the promotional unlocks additional copies of cards we already have in the deck. In which case I think it's more likely that they would add a second Murkfiend Liege over something different like Invert the Skies. Would I prefer the latter? Not necessarily. Either would get the job done, but I simply chose to prioritize the more likely option. Also don't forget about the deck's Regrowth which I suspect is part of the reason why they only included one Liege in the first place. Two copies with Regroth and Shielding Plax, not to mention fetch cards, is pretty solid odds of keeping a Liege on the field. Adding Invert the Skies in addition to all that feels like too much even if Shielding Plax was cut from the list, but that's just my opinion. Maybe they would still include the card, though, and to go into further detail I would list my suggestion as Murkfiend Liege (Alt. Invert the Skies), but the topic on the matter has requested a cleaner format.

And to clarify about Oracle of Mul Daya, what I was getting at was more about giving a card that was previously exclusive to one deck to another through promotional unlocks. And actually even Massacre Wurm was a promotional unlock for both Obedient Dead and Grinning Malice so even that doesn't really count. In any case I'm thinking too much on the details and I should suggest the Oracle anyway.
And to clarify about Oracle of Mul DayaIn any case I'm thinking too much on the details and I should suggest the Oracle anyway.



that's exactly what I was going to say Smile
I'm probably OCD as I pay attention to every little detail. Number of dulicate copies, creature to other spell ratio, mono color versus dual color. About half of the promotional unlocks for dual colored decks are mono colored so when I see a list suggesting nothing but dual colored cards on top of only a couple repeat copies I get real skeptical about anything remotely close to that actually being what we would get. This goes back to what I was saying in my first post about desinguishing between cards I would like to see and cards I think they would realistically include. I don't know if it's better to suggest cards that I simply want to see even if it is unrealistic that even half of them may show up. Not to mention the odds are against us for getting promotional unlocks anyway.
My choices for Sky and Scales.

Champion of Lambholt - Very powerful in this deck. It can make your whole army unblockable if not dealt with fast.

Cytoshape - Another great combat trick.


Gaea's Revenge - Another great finisher, worse for multiplayer but better for 1 Vs 1. It has the advantage that you can bring him back to your hand creating a huge number of tokens with Aether Mutation


Murkfiend Liege - Make your whole army huge.


Mystic Snake - Very nasty surprise trick.


Nulltread Gargantuan - Good body and nice way to reutilize your cards.


Ohran Viper - It fits the snake theme well and card draw theme well at the same time.


Quest for the Gemblades - To help the aggro strategy.


Spitting Image - Another way to "steal" cards.


Sturmgeist - It can be the thrid Overbeing of Myth
A second Liege, Edric, Explore and Harrow would be pefect.  Anything more than that would be gravy.

Then again, I wanted Harrow in SS too.  It fit the Golgari theme perfectly.
Ghost council of Orzhov I love flicker effects...and this IS the leader after all. 
Teysa, Orzhov scion Another card that clearly belongs.
Beckon Apparition For more graveyard manipulation, fits perfectly in the guild. 
Cauldron haze Because ghosts are suppost to be persistant. 
Deathbringer liege Like you didn't see that coming...


Oh, and Orzhov guildmage

As you can see, I prefer to keep them as themed with the guild as possible. some haunt would be nice, but i'm not hopeful. 
 


I don't think any of this fits in SaS. Maybe you meant to post this here.
Ghost council of Orzhov I love flicker effects...and this IS the leader after all. 
Teysa, Orzhov scion Another card that clearly belongs.
Beckon Apparition For more graveyard manipulation, fits perfectly in the guild. 
Cauldron haze Because ghosts are suppost to be persistant. 
Deathbringer liege Like you didn't see that coming...


Oh, and Orzhov guildmage

As you can see, I prefer to keep them as themed with the guild as possible. some haunt would be nice, but i'm not hopeful. 
 


I don't think any of this fits in SaS. Maybe you meant to post this here.



Oops...I think you're right...how the hell did I even do this??


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Sry for not posting this in the promo thread but little too tired to think of 7-8 to other cards(what I'm about to suggest I would like at least 2 of them) and I actually want a little discussion here which isn't really allowed on the other thread. So after unlocking all the cards I think some of the things the deck really needs is

A little more ramp to help make sure it gets to cast all it's 5cc and above spells
More draw to help Lorescale Coatl  and Overbeing of Myth
Overall help at the 4cc slot which is filled with mostly mediocre creatures

So my suggestion for a card that does all of the above:
Solemn Simulacrum

Outside of not triggering Fable of Wolf and Owl and not getting a boost from the Liege it seems like the perfect choice. Ok maybe he's a little too generic and can work in a lot of the DOTP decks but this deck specially needs more ramp and draw, so again perfect choice. Balance wise the deck would need a lot more then solemn to be among the higher tier DOTP decks but it would certainly help make the deck more consistent and more fun.
I don't know if it would be a great fit here, but I really hope that upcoming five-color deck has a few copies of Solemn Simulacrum in it.  Would fit perfectly.
I don't know if it would be a great fit here, but I really hope that upcoming five-color deck has a few copies of Solemn Simulacrum in it.  Would fit perfectly.

I don't see why not, like I said it does 2 things the deck needs help in without conflicting with it's other drops in that slot or causing any problems balance wise. Really don't see any downside here.

As for a 5 color deck yeah Solemn would be great, otherwise it would probably be heavy green with a splash of the other 4 just for mana fixing. That or maybe it'll be 5 colored artifacts? That would kinda funny. Laughing
I don't know if it would be a great fit here, but I really hope that upcoming five-color deck has a few copies of Solemn Simulacrum in it.  Would fit perfectly.

I don't see why not, like I said it does 2 things the deck needs help in without conflicting with it's other drops in that slot or causing any problems balance wise. Really don't see any downside here.

As for a 5 color deck yeah Solemn would be great, otherwise it would probably be heavy green with a splash of the other 4 just for mana fixing.



In effect yes, great card to this deck. In flavor, not so much. The Simic guild doesn't create robots, they engineer creatures.